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ASM 100 and Cosmic art?!
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291 posts in this topic

Forums were founded on the principal of using avatars and aliases for a reason. In fact when I signed-up here a few months after these boards opened, it was discouraged to use a real name. I half can't believe I'm having to explain this, but I've been around these boards long enough to know the quirks of discussing topics on a message board. While it does make it difficult to know who you're speaking with, to berate others on this point is akin to yelling at clouds or complaining about leaves falling from trees every Autumn. 

Beyond the anonymity of an avatar or alias is the stink that follows a person and their reputation when they purposesly undervalue a piece to turn around and sell it at twice their paying price. I don't think it matters whether you use an alias, avatar, or 1-800 number to pull this kind of stunt, that kind of activity will follow you everywhere you go. If you decide to continue to live by these activities and pursuits, be prepared to be called out for it.  If it still bothers you that the people calling you out haven't listed their full names, address, or telephone number, go to sites like facebook and see if your actions will fare any better when people call you out for doing stuff that is bound to -off level-headed and otherwise friendly people.

The golden rule. Treat everyone you encounter as you would like to be treated.  Then it won't matter who says what or where, because it will likely be positive, unless you're a nihilist.

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7 hours ago, romitaman said:

Will do Mike!!!!

Mike,

thanks for sharing all this incredible information and I have to mention this that every conversation with you or with John Romita were super exciting. We had a few over the last years. You probably don’t remember them but I do because I already admired your dedication to the hobby.

I have been collecting now for close to 20 years and it is a fun hobby. Kudos to folks like Mike that take this hobby of ours as serious as they do.

I have one question for you and if you already answered it, I am sorry.

Do you still have the very first page you ever bought, the one you bought right after you left the army ?

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16 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

I feel like with more and more people reading tpb and digital, the importance of covers (and their crazy multiplier) will diminish.

But, covers that are used for tpb and collected editions and keys, I can see them going strong.

Yeah, I've been saying this for years. But in the context of titles that are mostly consumed in trades.

Does not apply, obviously, to pre-100 ASM covers.

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10 hours ago, romitaman said:

Honestly...I would never have the collection i have now without meeting  Mitch Itkowitz!

I met Mitch in late 1989 out of a CBG AD not long after he became John Romita's art rep...I missed out on the killer top tier twice up battle ASM  pages and covers which Mitch sold well before i met him......But i was one of the first guys to buy complete books when Mitch started selling complete art books that weren't split up. 

.

I still have a few of my early invoices with Graphic Collectibles (Mitch Itkowitz)

My favorite one is from March 1990...... Mitch said he had the very last  23 LARGE ART ASM pages from john...they didn't have much Spiderman on them but  i wanted them very very badly.  (all pages were from ASM 40-48)  He sold me 17 pages for 40 bucks each 5 pages for 75 bucks each..and the 2/3 interior splash page from ASM 47 were Kraven busts through the wall of the COFFEE BEAN with MJ and Gwen dancing, as kraven kidnaps Harry Osborn was 125.

now whats even funnier than this is the fact that on this very same invoice i paid 200 dollars each for the 2 john ROMITA ASM annual 21 wedding covers.......AND i bought 2 nice Ron Frenz ASM battle pages from ASM 260 by Ron Frenz for 150 dollars each!!!

Ron Frenz ASM pages were ALMOST 4 TIMES HIGHER than the price for each of 17 large art John Romita ASM pages!

but again...those were the days!!!

I think you tell these stories just to torture Mitch.:baiting:

Good stuff, you definitely played your cards right!

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Collecting graded comics,( SLABS ) will always be around, just for that reason alone cover art will always be valuable!

Amazing Spiderman Covers #1-100  (Ditko and Romita run) will always be the golden standard ... ALWAYS ...

of course you have to include ASM 121, ASM 122 and a few others after that, but you get the point.

So basically certain covers will always be worth large sums of money in the future no matter what, and ASM 1 to 100 is in that category (+121, 122, etc)

These are the equivalent of Apple stock. And it's not because of hype it's because of quality and the era in which they were created in. 

Marvel at its peek of Silver Age brilliance /crossing over into the beginning years of the Bronze Age of wonder!

The A+ covers are trophy's and will only increase in value.  ( sadly they will increase at such a quick rate that most collectors will be priced out )

 It's the C level covers that you have to worry about in the future.

Because realistically the B level cover material will always be more accessible financially and therefore in high demand as well. 

We have all been there right? When you can't obtain the best example for whatever reason you get the second best, etc.....

Its the inflated price of C level cover art that may eventually hit its ceiling. And even than it may not happen for another 5-10 years.

You see dealers with tons of inventory that is D level cover material at every comic con around the country and it's massively inflated to create  profit.

Thats the art you have to seriously consider as an albatross around your neck in the future if its solely an investment buy.

If its just for the love of it than don't worry about anyone else's advice or opinion , just enjoy the art for it's visual stimulation.

 

Edited by MarvelComicsArt
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3 hours ago, Nexus said:

I think you tell these stories just to torture Mitch.:baiting:

Good stuff, you definitely played your cards right!

Doesn't bother me in the least.
That was what the art was worth in those days. To sit here and get upset is a major waste of time.

M

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13 hours ago, wurstisart said:

Mike,

thanks for sharing all this incredible information and I have to mention this that every conversation with you or with John Romita were super exciting. We had a few over the last years. You probably don’t remember them but I do because I already admired your dedication to the hobby.

I have been collecting now for close to 20 years and it is a fun hobby. Kudos to folks like Mike that take this hobby of ours as serious as they do.

I have one question for you and if you already answered it, I am sorry.

Do you still have the very first page you ever bought, the one you bought right after you left the army ?

Yes.. In the article i stated.... i still own the complete ASM 46 book and those first 2nd and 3rd pages i got from the CBG ad are all part of that complete story to this day. :)

Interestingly.... it seems that in ASM 45 and 46....John Romita started drawing more LARGE panels in the books with 3 and 4 panels and many half splashes....John Told me it was about that time that he started finding his groove and decided he didnt have to keep drawing 8 and 9 panel pages to tell the stories like Ditko did for the most part. 

Edited by romitaman
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7 hours ago, artdealer said:

Doesn't bother me in the least.
That was what the art was worth in those days. To sit here and get upset is a major waste of time.

M

Exactly....I never wrote that to demean Mitch whatsoever......Trust me...... In 1991 i paid 100 dollars for the asm 155 cover out of the CBG..and the guy tells me....i have the asm 71 cover and you can have that for 200 if you want it... I took it. lol

EVERY art dealer at that time sold art at the same price range. (except Conrad...he was always tough as nails to buy from reasonably..LOL) I bought his VERY LAST 2 large art ASM Romita pages in 1999 ........the interior 2/3 splash and last page semi-splash to asm 48 pages 4 and 20 for the unheard of price of 3000 and 2000 each at the time. I'm so glad i broke the bank for those at the time.

Around 1986  the complete ASM 50 book sold for 350 dollars!!! in 1986-87 the complete ASM #6 book sold for 4k.  (yes this is the one the BEAGLE ATE when UPS left it on the porch...and the pieces parts remaining got sent back to the seller!)

Mitch was a pioneer and 1 of the very first art dealers out there selling art for artists in our hobby.

I think Mitch's only regret (which he would agree to i'm sure) will be that he wasn't nerdy enough like the rest of us to collect some of the best stuff he was selling as he had mouths to feed.

Al Czarnecki who had nearly EVERY single john and Sal Buscema piece of art ever drawn go through his hands would probably say the same thing.

Most guys who became successful in our hobby had a"SECOND" Income  (job) to help supplement collecting art.

Mike

Edited by romitaman
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9 hours ago, romitaman said:

(except Conrad...he was always tough as nails to buy from reasonably..LOL)

Interesting. Myself and Saul had exactly the opposite experience. When we were both at a show with Conrad set up, it was a race to see who could take the most offbrand material out from under his nose for the least. He only aggressively priced LA and clearly "hot" small Kirby, Ditko, Romita, Kane, all the obvious big names on the big characters and titles. He never really understood the rest, he saw it as heavy stock to lug around, churn material that he was happy to turn a small profit on. Conrad's table, those many bins, were truly a Picker's Paradise. But understand Mike, you were chasing big game by then (the market had caught up with your buying) and I think that's why he was tough as nails on what you were buying. We were cleaning up the rest -essentially the Romita ASM of the late 90s and very early oughts. Tons of bronze Sal and John Buscema, Gil Kane, Marie Severin and Adkins Strange Tales, very late small Kirby FF, 2nd run Cockrum X-Men and Nighcrawler LS, etc along with a lot of even lesser names that were commonly abused and maligned by all "serious" collectors. Dogs of the Dow Theory. I didn't copy your model, wasn't even aware of it then, but it was truly the way to buy. Then you only had to have the patience of Jesse Livermore to sit on your hands and only much, much later sell.

I miss those days. There was a certain mystery to be uncovered in nearly every bin, similar to digging through $1 long boxes in the 80s...what overlooked gem would you find with a 5 year old price sitting on it. The internet killed that, killed all "local" opportunities.

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On 3/15/2018 at 7:25 AM, romitaman said:

interesting topics above.......and honestly i love sharing all my stories with anyone who asks when talking about the hobby.......and my spider-man collecting....it's super fun and I'm quite blessed to get into the hobby when i did...... I have so so many fun stories about the hobby it's pretty awesome to share all the great deals that were had well before the days of the internet and all.

People seem to think i had a lot lot of money to buy art right from the beginning...I didn't,

I couldn't even afford to go to college as i had no money and my parents had no money so i joined the army and got out of the army in October 1989 and bought my very first piece of art the day i got out of the army.   a battle page from ASM 46 from a CBG ad that Scott Dunbier had for 110 bucks. 2 months later i called up Scott and asked if he still had the other 2 pages in his ad..he said he did and I bought those 2 also.

Fast forward 24 years later and I eventually completed the entire 20 page ASM 46 book...LOL

Honestly...I would never have the collection i have now without meeting  Mitch Itkowitz!

I met Mitch in late 1989 out of a CBG AD not long after he became John Romita's art rep...I missed out on the killer top tier twice up battle ASM  pages and covers which Mitch sold well before i met him......But i was one of the first guys to buy complete books when Mitch started selling complete art books that weren't split up. 

The 4 real Keys in the early 90s to getting great art was............

#1)  be avidly reading the CBG EVERY WEEK.

#2) go to as many comic conventions as possible to meet collectors and network yourself.

#3) Be prepared to have a HUGE PHONE BILL...as before the internet i always had 300-500 dollar monthly phone bills by making so so so many phone calls trying to do art deals.

#4) Have a decent job to afford to spend money on art....I thankfully got a good job in a hospital in 1991 working with cancer patients (mostly kids) and I worked there for 23 years until i retired in 2013 to do art full time when the hospital had cut backs and forced me out sadly.

Anyways...I do have to say...like Marvelcomicart guy states above..... I was pleasantly surprised how no one....and i mean NO ONE for about the first 8 or so years I was in the hobby were interested in ASM INTERIORS....guys always wanted the covers...but no one collected interiors so it was nice not having to fight others for the art early on.

I still have a few of my early invoices with Graphic Collectibles (Mitch Itkowitz)

My favorite one is from March 1990...... Mitch said he had the very last  23 LARGE ART ASM pages from john...they didn't have much Spiderman on them but  i wanted them very very badly.  (all pages were from ASM 40-48)  He sold me 17 pages for 40 bucks each 5 pages for 75 bucks each..and the 2/3 interior splash page from ASM 47 were Kraven busts through the wall of the COFFEE BEAN with MJ and Gwen dancing, as kraven kidnaps Harry Osborn was 125.

now whats even funnier than this is the fact that on this very same invoice i paid 200 dollars each for the 2 john ROMITA ASM annual 21 wedding covers.......AND i bought 2 nice Ron Frenz ASM battle pages from ASM 260 by Ron Frenz for 150 dollars each!!!

Ron Frenz ASM pages were ALMOST 4 TIMES HIGHER than the price for each of 17 large art John Romita ASM pages!

but again...those were the days!!!

People have always asked me why I collected Romita ASM over Ditko ASM and I told them all...

"I WAS CHEAP! I COULDNT AFFORD DITKO ASM ART" And I was just thinking basic economics of the hobby.

Decent Ditko ASM pages were selling for 1000 dollars each in 1990 and everyone wanted a page.....Romita ASM pages were selling for 40-100 bucks each and NO ONE WANTED THEM......
and believe it or not...even in 1990, McFarlane Spiderman pages were selling for 5-10 times ROMITA ASM interiors

So I said to myself...I love "SPIDERMAN" So I'll collect ALL Romita Art...and since McFarlane was so highly priced.......and Andru, Kane, Pollard, Romita Jr, and Frenz art was still all very reasonable... I decided to collect any and all ASM art from #39-297...and I will ONLY do deals for Ditko and McFarlane ASM art, "AND" ALL non ASM art, to figure a way to turn that art into more ASM 39-297 interior art....

another funny story is in 1992....I had a sportscard / comicbook store from 1991-1998 with my older brother (he did the  sportscards and i did the comics)

I speculated and bought 700 copies of Javier Salteres GHOST RIDER #1 in 1990 when they first came out, (for half cover price being a store owner) ....the book shot up to like 15 bucks after a year or so...... and i met a guy through the CBG who had a comicbook store  who was avid into comic art and collecting art for a decade before me.......... He had about 50 John Romita ASM pages...about 7 large and the rest small........ and since he had his store in NYC I worked out the deal and traded him all 700 copies of ghost rider #1 for all of his Romita ASM pages! 

We are still good friends .....Even to this day he laughs when we bring up that story and he said the Romita art was considered bottom tier art back then....equivalent to....or just a tad higher to Tuska and Heck small art Iron Man art.... and Gene Colan small DD pages.....EVERYONE I would do deals with for Romita art in the 90s  would always ask me why i love that art so much? they would almost all tell me...."ROMITA JUST DRAWS "THE MARVEL WAY.....THE MARVEL HOUSE STYLE...."   I just told them all OK as i smiled and walked away...... and I moved on to the next deal to be had....

To this day I still feel that almost ANY john Romita ASM "character page" has more detail and is thought out and every panel displays and flows so well into the context of the story...I've never seen ANY comic book series EVER........ Where the character pages are as cherished and even more detailed than  the battle pages.......and of course the writing is a HUGE REASON for that.....I just love staring at them all...... character pages even more than spidey battle pages. Just look at how John Romita draws HAIR ON WOMEN and you will see what i'm talking about...no one draws hair as good as John Romita i've always said that from the very first pages of his i've ever owned. It's amazing how he uses the light effects for drawing hair. it's AMAZING to me..... John's 2 minute MJ and Gwen pencil drawings are something you almost cant explain yet it's "PERFECT" when he finishes!

No artist in my opinion put as much thought and detail into the side characters and backgrounds in panels like John Romita did...He truly cared about putting out a great product.... and making sure buildings.....cars... and people were positioned PERFECTLY, so every panel looked like a real PICTURE and not just something in a comic book.

I always love sharing the story where john Romita told me how he would turn in a Spiderman story for printing...and he would feel let down and that he did a sub par job drawing it....................but after Stan put the words on all of the pages and John Read the story it all made sense and the story became GOLD when he thought he turned in TRASH!!!  

I truly admire and appreciate john Romita for his  humbleness.. To this very day he still feels he was NO BIG DEAL compared to other artists at Marvel, and he REALLY feels he was just at the right place and the right time to take over Spider-Man...... But i ALWAYS tell him he was so so much more to so many of us who read his books and viewed his art! 

(I ALSO feel the same way about ALL John Buscema  and Bernie Wrightson art, after studying so much if their great art i've owned over the years, these 2 are right up there as some of the greatest artists my eyes have ever witnessed.)

...... It's been an amazing ride and privilege collecting this great art for 29 years I must say.....

 

Great post, I could read this stuff all day !

 

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20 hours ago, artdealer said:

Doesn't bother me in the least.
That was what the art was worth in those days. To sit here and get upset is a major waste of time.

M

Yup, I get that, too. As someone who's selling new art now, I sometimes wonder if anything I sell today will turn out to be the next SANDMAN tomorrow. But we won't know until we get there and in the meantime, my primary job is to sell the art for the artists.

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On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 5:50 AM, r100comics said:

 

That is insane, what an incredible list of covers !

The last time I read a post this jaw-dropping was when Brulato rattled off the list of highest graded mega-keys he owned, 10 or 15 years ago.....

 

Surprised you didn't own mine - #75.  But cool to see all the ones that have passed through your hands Mike!

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1 hour ago, MarvelComicsArt said:

Don Perlin did a lot of "add on" background work for these types of reprints. Looks like his handy work.

And the foreground has been adjusted (arm position, leg shading etc). Wonder what the story is here.

Edited by zhamlau
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On 3/17/2018 at 6:27 PM, heartened said:

Surprised you didn't own mine - #75.  But cool to see all the ones that have passed through your hands Mike!

Funny story about ASM #75.......... (I know you are referring to the cover...... but i have a great story about the complete ASM #75 STORY)..................... in a CBG ad around 1993..... JIM MOONEY put out an ad just advertising ALL of his art for sale from all of his inked Marvel books. He listed about 10-12 titles from marvel he had art to..... including ASM art.... but you had to call him to find out what he had. I called him up and bought EVERY ASM interior he inked from ASM around #193 up to ASM #242. He also sold me about 5-6 pages he still had from ASM #81...the first Kangaroo story.  i bought well over 300 pages from him....... paid around 35 bucks each for them all... many splashes also included. But Jim told me he still had the complete 20 page story to ASM #75 he drew with John Romita...... I told him i'd pay him 2000 dollars cash for the story......but he said he was saving it for his son. I told him if he or his son ever wants to sell to please call me back........... 1 year later he calls me back and said his son needs money and if i could pay $3000 cash for it then its mine and i agreed to the deal.  Later that same year of 1994 in December...... a comic store owner in Baltimore (who i met in 1993 at the Diamond distribution Sales Conference) called me up and offered me the complete ASM #67 book for 4000 dollars and i happily agreed to buy it...and the very next month he offered me the complete ASM 69 interior 20 page story for the same 4000. I was quite happy to get those 2 books at the time............. I have since sold about 1/3 of each book privately to other collectors over the years.

Edited by romitaman
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1 hour ago, romitaman said:

Funny story about ASM #75.......... (I know you are referring to the cover...... but i have a great story about the complete ASM #75 STORY)..................... in a CBG ad around 1993..... JIM MOONEY put out an ad just advertising ALL of his art for sale from all of his inked Marvel books. He listed about 10-12 titles from marvel he had art to..... including ASM art.... but you had to call him to find out what he had. I called him up and bought EVERY ASM interior he inked from ASM around #193 up to ASM #242. He also sold me about 5-6 pages he still had from ASM #81...the first Kangaroo story.  i bought well over 300 pages from him....... paid around 35 bucks each for them all... many splashes also included. But Jim told me he still had the complete 20 page story to ASM #75 he drew with John Romita...... I told him i'd pay him 2000 dollars cash for the story......but he said he was saving it for his son. I told him if he or his son ever wants to sell to please call me back........... 1 year later he calls me back and said his son needs money and if i could pay $3000 cash for it then its mine and i agreed to the deal.  Later that same year of 1994 in December...... a comic store owner in Baltimore (who i met in 1993 at the Diamond distribution Sales Conference) called me up and offered me the complete ASM #67 book for 4000 dollars and i happily agreed to buy it...and the very next month he offered me the complete ASM 69 interior 20 page story for the same 4000. I was quite happy to get those 2 books at the time............. I have since sold about 1/3 of each book privately to other collectors over the years.

Mike out of curiosity since you are very well informed have you ever heard anything about the cover to Amazing Fantasy #15?  

Thank you Kindly Sir

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4 hours ago, MarvelComicsArt said:

Mike out of curiosity since you are very well informed have you ever heard anything about the cover to Amazing Fantasy #15?  

Thank you Kindly Sir

ha ha ha....sadly no.

there was a rumor going around for many years in the 1990s that the cover to Captain America #1 was around...but i'm not sure if that rumor ever came true.

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11 hours ago, romitaman said:

Funny story about ASM #75.......... (I know you are referring to the cover...... but i have a great story about the complete ASM #75 STORY)..................... in a CBG ad around 1993..... JIM MOONEY put out an ad just advertising ALL of his art for sale from all of his inked Marvel books. He listed about 10-12 titles from marvel he had art to..... including ASM art.... but you had to call him to find out what he had. I called him up and bought EVERY ASM interior he inked from ASM around #193 up to ASM #242. He also sold me about 5-6 pages he still had from ASM #81...the first Kangaroo story.  i bought well over 300 pages from him....... paid around 35 bucks each for them all... many splashes also included. But Jim told me he still had the complete 20 page story to ASM #75 he drew with John Romita...... I told him i'd pay him 2000 dollars cash for the story......but he said he was saving it for his son. I told him if he or his son ever wants to sell to please call me back........... 1 year later he calls me back and said his son needs money and if i could pay $3000 cash for it then its mine and i agreed to the deal.  Later that same year of 1994 in December...... a comic store owner in Baltimore (who i met in 1993 at the Diamond distribution Sales Conference) called me up and offered me the complete ASM #67 book for 4000 dollars and i happily agreed to buy it...and the very next month he offered me the complete ASM 69 interior 20 page story for the same 4000. I was quite happy to get those 2 books at the time............. I have since sold about 1/3 of each book privately to other collectors over the years.

Here's the CBG ad that Mike mentioned.  For more gut-wrenching blasts from the past, check out www.comicartads.com

Shamelessly yours, Lee

MooneyVariousPages_CBG071792.jpg

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I just threw up a little.  Wish I'd started buying art in the early 90s instead of continuing to buy comics that were on a huge downward decline in quality.    

Very cool story though!  I think it always means more when you buy the art directly from the artist.  

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