ASM 100 and Cosmic art?! 2 2

[John S.]

The cosmic market has gone crazy this last few years, let's see how it does after the Avengers films are a distant memory.

Edited February 26, 2018 by John S.

[Dick O.]

5 hours ago, Khazano said:

Im completely mind boggled by this! I always figured myself pretty savy at valuing the stuff in my wheel house. But every year since 2014 the cosmic market has left me dumbfounded. This has to be getting to the ceiling.  It can't keep going up like this. (Not that Im complaining!!!!)   

Modern Starlin cosmic also continues to do well on HA, with the Marvel Universe: The End #5 splash fetching $7.2k!

 

[romitaman]

Peter G....Normally I dont respond to people who refuse to give their first and last names for fear i'm talking to a minor who got on their parents computer without their permission :)........ But just so others know.....The owner of the asm 100 cover that just sold and i are good friends and i'm quite happy how well the cover did..... and that's putting it mildly..... i emailed the seller and congratulated him on the sale of the cover...... you are (cough cough....) lacking in knowledge on so many topics, but please know..... its fine and that's what chat boards are all about.... "CHATTING ABOUT ART and EXPERIENCES IN OUR HOBBY"  I thoroughly enjoy and smile every time you post as everyone is allowed to voice their opinions on various topics and you certainly have an interesting opinion on so many topics about just about everything except your own art collection, which is quite interesting to me.....I've read your posts for 5 years now, yet you only like to talk about other people and RARELY if EVER about your own art stories. i don't even know 1 thing you actually collect in this art hobby and i've been here for 12 years. and you've been here almost 5 years....... When I read your posts, I liken it to watching a grandmother who has never watched a football game on TV, yelling at the players and all, thinking she knows EVERYTHING, while everyone just watches her and smirks.  but it's good to have you back as I've missed all of your cabal and conspiracy theories about whomever of course....but nevertheless they can be entertaining..... at times.

Edited February 27, 2018 by romitaman

[jaybuck43]

To be fair, the cabal IS real.

[delekkerste]

1 minute ago, jaybuck43 said:

To be fair, the cabal IS real.

Shhhh...do you value your life so cheaply, man??? 

[romitaman]

Am I part of the cabal???.... If so i never paid my dues and who do i talk to about this as i need to be kept current.

 

[glendgold]

1 hour ago, romitaman said:

Am I part of the cabal???.... If so i never paid my dues and who do i talk to about this as i need to be kept current.

 

Uh oh.  Mike is reciting off the samplers they have tatted in The Cabal clubhouse about how to respond when people bring up The Cabal.  This is going to get UNPRETTY. 

 

[Peter G]

On 2/26/2018 at 12:21 PM, romitaman said:

Peter G....Normally I dont respond to people who refuse to give their first and last names for fear i'm talking to a minor who got on their parents computer without their permission :)........ But just so others know.....The owner of the asm 100 cover that just sold and i are good friends and i'm quite happy how well the cover did..... and that's putting it mildly..... i emailed the seller and congratulated him on the sale of the cover...... you are (cough cough....) lacking in knowledge on so many topics, but please know..... its fine and that's what chat boards are all about.... "CHATTING ABOUT ART and EXPERIENCES IN OUR HOBBY"  I thoroughly enjoy and smile every time you post as everyone is allowed to voice their opinions on various topics and you certainly have an interesting opinion on so many topics about just about everything except your own art collection, which is quite interesting to me.....I've read your posts for 5 years now, yet you only like to talk about other people and RARELY if EVER about your own art stories. i don't even know 1 thing you actually collect in this art hobby and i've been here for 12 years. and you've been here almost 5 years....... When I read your posts, I liken it to watching a grandmother who has never watched a football game on TV, yelling at the players and all, thinking she knows EVERYTHING, while everyone just watches her and smirks.  but it's good to have you back as I've missed all of your cabal and conspiracy theories about whomever of course....but nevertheless they can be entertaining..... at times.

As the saying goes - "With friends like you, who needs enemies?"

Self serving is all I'm saying.  Very self serving on your part.

[romitaman]

So sharing art stories with everyone on the CGC board here is self serving???? and makes me an enemy of yours? ....

ummmm...ok Pete...whatever you think buddy..... Hey...When you come over for cards this Saturday....Please quit being cheap and bring REAL DORITOS and not the cheap generic chips from ALDI's you brought last time......ok???

[heartened]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 3:39 PM, Khazano said:

Im completely mind boggled by this! I always figured myself pretty savy at valuing the stuff in my wheel house. But every year since 2014 the cosmic market has left me dumbfounded. This has to be getting to the ceiling.  It can't keep going up like this. (Not that Im complaining!!!!)   

I'm not surprised.  IG is an incredible story and project that was widely read and brought many new readers to understand the entire Thanos saga from the 70s to that period.  When you have that many readers, you will have tons of collectors with money 25 years later - the start of the peak of when those readers have money but are not yet tied down by family and l life.  And that doesn't even to begin to touch on the movie tie-ins, popularity of Thanos that is only just blossoming, etc.

Those of us who have been collecting cosmic art for decades have always appreciate these runs and paid mightily for the 70s art by Starlin.  The IG run will reach those heights and maybe even surpass them over time.  So glad I have one of the covers and some pages at this point.  Bill Woo used to have four of the covers.  And Albert had the other one.  Not sure if they are all in the same collections now or not. 

[buyatari]

On 2/27/2018 at 11:32 PM, romitaman said:

So sharing art stories with everyone on the CGC board here is self serving???? and makes me an enemy of yours? ....

ummmm...ok Pete...whatever you think buddy..... Hey...When you come over for cards this Saturday....Please quit being cheap and bring REAL DORITOS and not the cheap generic chips from ALDI's you brought last time......ok???

This might be the first time in history that the phrase "REAL DORITOS" has been used before. 

Talk about your oxymoron.

I'll agree with you on this point. If what he is bringing isn't even as good as Doritos then then you guys DO need better snacks. 

[pemart1966]

On 2018-02-24 at 5:41 PM, Peter G said:

Cough cough... conflict of interest... cough cough

Do people really still fall for these obvious tactics to manipulate markets in 2018 ?

i wish dealers would have some scruples and not do this stuff

 

 

 

Clearly the inking did not affect the final price.  I tend to agree with Mike's comments though from strictly an aesthetic point of view...the cover would have looked better had it been Romita inking Romita...

[MarvelComicsArt]

http://wednesdaysheroes.com/top-10-john-romita-covers/

The ASM #100 in Mikes own words is his 4th favorite Romita Spiderman cover of all time . (see mike's list down below)

So when he implied that both the Gwen and Mary Jane head shots looked "off " because Giacoia inked them,

His comment did nothing to impede anyone who had a serious interest in owning the asm 100 from bidding.

Obviously when you rate a cover as high as #4 on your own list , than the head shots were always on point and never an issue.

It was simply a strategy on Mike's part to possibly discourage buyers from bidding.

In this "Hobby" any serious collector takes that with a grain of salt.

I can't blame Mike for trying, he loves that cover and simply wanted it back.

Unfortunately Mike's strategy did not play out as he intended. Unless his intention was to always drive up prices by

proclaiming his offer of 250k in the first place . In that case it worked perfectly.

(To me he is a true Romita collector and just wanted it back.)

 The ASM 100 is a very rare and unique cover. And therefore it was always going to sell for a world record breaking amount at auction.

The ASM 100 was always going to break 400k ... the question was never if, it was always by how much.

And its not even a question of if you like the cover or not. I know not everyone loves Romita or sees him as a pioneer like Ditko.

Its  (A) a matter of it having the largest (full body) spiderman figure on any asm cover ( the asm 50 is partial body so it does not count )

and (B) the fact that it has 34 head shots plus spiderman , propels it into truly being a one of a kind masterpiece of comic art illustration.

Theres nothing to take its place or compare it to. Absolutely nothing!  35 major characters on one cover. No one can argue with those facts.

I don't like using the word Iconic.

But the ASM 100 is indeed Iconic!

A good way of looking at it, the rule of thumb is this. Can you replace the ASM #100 with something else.

The answer is no....What other ASM Romita cover has 34 major character head shots plus a huge figure of spiderman? All drawn in his prime.

The answer is simply none.

So therefore it is beyond rare .  And by definition Iconic.  Thus the price point reflected it.

 

My own humble opinion is that the ASM # 100 cover looks like an incredibly powerful poster (a movie poster) ,  especially since it was inked masterfully by the great Frank Giacoia.

The Gwen head shot looks sultry , while Mary Jane looks very striking . Conveying a sense of playfulness with her expression  ("you've hit the jackpot tiger"). And every surrounding headshot like the Goblin has a true sense of "character" about them.

Sometimes Romita would ink his own work and every headshot started to look a bit "generic". Same expression , same facial proportions, same Line weight, etc.....

This usually happens when you have to go over your own pencils, you basically get tired of drawing it twice. You lose something when you go over your own drawing.

But a gifted inker with true artistic sensibilities has to concentrate , no only to make sure the purity of the drawing stays fully intact but to also add a touch of "shine",  a subtle air of "luster" a touch of class if you will.

(And all of this is achieved on the inkers behalf with fresh eyes ,since they are viewing this artwork for the very first time.)

Now with that said i have seen numerous Romita ASM pages where his inking is beyond gorgeous and every headshot is full of life and character as well.

The Giacoia line work really added an extra touch of beauty to the ASM 100.  It has an illustrators feel to it. Very subtle but it shines through so elegantly!

As an example look at ASM #121  (also a type of floating head cover), ASM 121 is inked by Romita and yet its missing those wonderful and delicate character traits that only appear on the ASM 100 cover inked by Giacoia.

The Gwen headshot is okay on ASM 121 but the Mary Jane looks a bit generic , lifeless . And aunt May looks like she has been mummified. The rest of the head shots are just there, very bland.

 With that said asm #121 is will always be an iconic cover no doubt about it.  And whomever owns it has an incredible piece of history. So kudos to them!

But the heads look a bit generic to me and lifeless .

Amazing Spiderman #100 is magnificent for many reasons.

$478,000 reasons to be exact.

http://wednesdaysheroes.com/top-10-john-romita-covers/

Romitaman's  (Mike's) top 4 Romita Amazing Spiderman covers of all time are as follows

1)asm #50

2)asm #39

3) asm #122

4)asm #100

[MarvelComicsArt]

John Romita Sr. Amazing Spider-Man #61 Cover Original Art (Marvel, 1968).

 Any ideas how much this twice up Amazing Spiderman Gwen Stacey Cover will go for on heritage? over/under ?

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-romita-sr-amazing-spider-man-61-cover-original-art-marvel-1968-/p/7187-16001.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited March 13, 2018 by MarvelComicsArt

[romitaman]

 

Gotta say..i loved the previous poster's post whoever you are....... I hate people hiding their names with fake names and all...but such is the way of this art list.....but the post was A great read...

I loved the ASM 100 cover overall.......but i would not have kept it in my collection if I'd done a private deal on it.

 I'd have used it as a bargaining chip to get better art in the future had i done a deal privately before the auction.

anyway.......The ASM 100 cover sold for a great price and i congratulated my friend on the great auction sale he had.

i personally feel the MJ  image on the ASM 100 looks so far off with Giacoia inks, MJ's right eye is over an inch too far to her right compared to her nose....(did Colletta ink it like his FF 42-44 run faces..LOL) Its pretty obvious, and Romita would never have inked such a bad MJ figure as she looks like she has a hair-lip....... but its only comic art so whatever floats your boat.

 I just gave my opinion on that.... The cover is still quite amazing obviously..

Every person who has known me for the past 29 years in this hobby KNOWS I don't collect ASM covers..... every cover I've ever owned I've always traded or did cash and trade deals to acquire more ASM splashes and interiors from ASM 39-297!

I've at one time or another, over the past 29 years owned THESE "90" covers to ASM between 39-297:

40,41,42,45,47,50,59,61,67,68,71,76,81,82 (pub and unpub82) 85,86,87,90,91,96,97,99,100,101,113,116,117,118,125,128,131,132,135,136,138,140,145,147,148,149,155,156,160,163,164,169,176,182,183,

184,185,187,189,191,(194 unpub Pollard) 195,198,199,202,203,204,208,214,215,221,223,229,232,238,242,243,247,248,249,258,261,263,265,266,269,270, 271,280,282,284,285,288,  (ASM Annual 3 Large cover, ASM annual 6 cover)

Holy MOLEY......i cant believe i owned that many covers.....just looked it up...LOL... alas...all are gone except the 59 and 160...and 59 will be gone shortly.

now...since it seems my opinions always get copied and pasted a lot here... (LOL) , should i even mention about the ASM 61 having about 40-50 things different on the art versus the published cover?

all you fellow art nerds........ Start looking to see how many differences you come up with.

I'm shocked no one has  mentioned this yet as i felt this list was pretty astute at finding these things out.

also......if this cover sells for 50k or 500k it wont affect how i think of it personally but i felt this information should be noted

so please everyone...have at it.

MIKE BURKEY 

Edited March 14, 2018 by romitaman

[Khazano]

5 minutes ago, Bill C said:

Any reason you're not a big fan of collecting covers?

Thats what I wanna know!

[buyatari]

17 minutes ago, Khazano said:

Thats what I wanna know!

 

23 minutes ago, Bill C said:

Any reason you're not a big fan of collecting covers?

Having had so many I’m shocked that he didn’t keep a few. 

Still I don’t think it would be fair to say that he isn’t a fan of the covers. He must consider covers overpriced compared with splashes which I’ve heard others also say as well. 

 

 

[MarvelComicsArt]

Thank you Mike for your reply.

First things first ,congrats on having the foresight to purchase almost every major Romita Amazing spiderman cover.

Years back when a certain Mr.Moy  would shake his head and say ... whats wrong with this guy why is he buying every Romita Cover , and every Romita interior Spiderman page.

Albert would just chuckle and shake his head. After all "everyone" knew that Ditko Spiderman pages were the "pages" to get! Ditko was the definitive Spiderman artist everyone agreed.

And yet you proudly protested with a joyous grin on your face . To anyone who would listen that John Romita was indeed the greatest Spiderman artist ,"in your humble opinion".

I respect that for many reasons. Not only did you see a great opportunity by purchasing Romita art at $30 a page but you genuinely loved the artwork.

And that i respect the most.  You stuck to your guns no matter what the popular opinion was at that time.

Is it any coincidence that the Romita version of Spiderman was printed on a united states postage stamp. Is it any coincidence that the Hollywood version of Spiderman

was directly modeled after the Romita illustrated version of Spiderman. There is a reason why aesthetically Romita's version was not only a bigger hit with comic book fans

but also beloved worldwide by a whole new generation of  the cinema going fan base. Legions upon legions of fans buying t-shirts, toys, mugs, etc...etc.

And every piece of merchandise has one familiar attribute. An officially licensed image of John Romita SR  Amazing Spiderman Artwork!

What can i say i am in a generous mood tonight, i believe in giving praise where praise is due.  And Mike, if you ever invite me over for poker .

I promise Only real Doritos, i give you my word buddy.  

 

However (here it comes ....drum roll please) . I politely disagree with Mikes's opinion about Mary Jane Watsons face.

Not only are her eyes the 'IDEAL"  but i see absolutely no indication of a so called hair lip so therefor i wont even address that nonsense. Come on Mike shame on you...... that face is gorgeous.

And to illustrate my point i will use some photography as examples . These examples consist of real life beautiful women that have a similar Golden Ratio of beauty.

(do't get too excited gentleman no x-rated photos here, just some examples of one of a kind "idealized exotic" beautiful women's faces)

 

The space between the eyes is a key component to the ideal standards of beauty. Why is it that some artist draw better than others. (besides practice , duh)

Simply because they follow scientifically (mathematically) proven standards of proportion. The golden ratio of beauty . The magical unicorn if you will.

Adam Hughes comes to mind.  So does John Buscema and John Romita.  There are many other artists who follow these guidelines of universal beauty. Travis Charest is another one.

Dave Stevens, Gil Elvgren, George Petty .... the list goes on and on.

Some artist's are even confident enough to slightly exaggerate or "enhance" the features so as to create a more stunning version of the human head. Drew Struzan comes to mind.

Drew can take any Actor, male and female and make them look their very best. There are many artist who do the opposite, i would like to think it's because they have a broken hand

or have suffered a stroke.  AH what the hell I will cut those guys some slack. I mean after all , us "internet critics are all secretly master artists ... i mean who isn't Michelangelo here, right?!)

Now before everyone falls asleep on my art thesis . I will show you exactly what i mean.

Consider me Mr.Rogers but much more handsome. ( Because everyone knows we internet guys are all super models, 6 foot 3, dark hair,  wearing the latest Gucci runway fashions.

 And above all else  we are secretly 007 in our daily lives jet setting all over the world.  Buying the $500,000.00 ASM #100 cover without a care in the world!) Applause please..... takes a bow... 

 

Now without further ado.  I will lay it out in laymans terms. The proportion between the eyes ( the bridge of the nose ) should at the very least be the size of 1 eye or roughly slightly over an inch in real human proportion. The idealized version is actually an inch and a half or an eye and a half sometimes as wide as 1 and 3/4 inches . This proportion gives the most pleasing visual .

Thus the Mary Jane Watson headshot has a unique character to it.  Otherwise Mary Jane would simply be Gwen but in a red wig. Don't get me started on generic comic book head shots.

That lecture is strictly for another day.  And the excuse of "its only comic art" . Nope good art comes in all forms . Comic art can be as masterfully executed as any "so called real art."

example one---- scroll down

Amanda Seyfried--- her eyes are 1 and 1/2 inches apart.... and most likely 1 and 3/4 inches apart width wise.

example two my ex wife ( shut up its my reply, when it's your reply you can say whatever you wish, until than just be nice and play along)

Michele Phieffer--- again her eyes are 1 and 1/2 apart... at least.

example 3 Emma Stone-- same thing ... same proportions -- 1 and 1/2 apart

check all of the photos and make up your own mind  .... use your eyes... best way to judge anything of real value.

 

P.S. i do believe Mike when he says that he was buying the ASM#100 to resell . Of course he was why wouldn't he.

He is in the business of flipping art, thats the reality and he makes no apologies for it. Nor should he.

His modus operandi has always been to get quantity . He would much rather get an entire issue and split up the interior pages than hold unto something so pricey.

He takes a cover and turns it into an issue ... sell a cover buy a whole book , split it up than rinse and repeat! ahhh the sweet smell of Benjamins.

Makes perfect sense to me financially.  The guy is brilliant at what he does . Whether you love him or hate him.  (I don't think anyone actually hates Mike that honor goes to numerous other well known dealers ... for example the brothers Grimm as the Cabal calls them)

Now what i truly love about art is that it invokes public opinion. And thats all it is "opinion". Art is subjective. But the golden ratio is based on science and therefore carries a lot more weight than any opinion ever will.

Of course some comic book art is actually universally revered as dreadful garbage ... but we won't speak of such horrors ... like Mr.DeadPool himself... a legend in his own mind.

More speed lines, more cross hatch, less drawing, no feet, no hands... he who shall not be named ....  Rhymes with BOB

Anyway i obviously have way too much free time on my hands, what can i say ... I am MarvelComicsArt.... and gosh darn it i know my stuff ... again applause please ... takes a curtsy 

Knight to queen bishop 3... oh what the hell am i talking about  i'm more of a checkers kind of guy.

....goodnight gentleman

Mike if you ever get your hands on ASM 39 .... let me know

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by MarvelComicsArt

[r100comics]

4 hours ago, romitaman said:

 

Gotta say..i loved the previous poster's post whoever you are....... I hate people hiding their names with fake names and all...but such is the way of this art list.....but the post was A great read...

I loved the ASM 100 cover overall.......but i would not have kept it in my collection if I'd done a private deal on it.

 I'd have used it as a bargaining chip to get better art in the future had i done a deal privately before the auction.

anyway.......The ASM 100 cover sold for a great price and i congratulated my friend on the great auction sale he had.

i personally feel the MJ  image on the ASM 100 looks so far off with Giacoia inks, MJ's right eye is over an inch too far to her right compared to her nose....(did Colletta ink it like his FF 42-44 run faces..LOL) Its pretty obvious, and Romita would never have inked such a bad MJ figure as she looks like she has a hair-lip....... but its only comic art so whatever floats your boat.

 I just gave my opinion on that.... The cover is still quite amazing obviously..

Every person who has known me for the past 29 years in this hobby KNOWS I don't collect ASM covers..... every cover I've ever owned I've always traded or did cash and trade deals to acquire more ASM splashes and interiors from ASM 39-297!

I've at one time or another, over the past 29 years owned THESE "90" covers to ASM between 39-297:

40,41,42,45,47,50,59,61,67,68,71,76,81,82 (pub and unpub82) 85,86,87,90,91,96,97,99,100,101,113,116,117,118,125,128,131,132,135,136,138,140,145,147,148,149,155,156,160,163,164,169,176,182,183,

184,185,187,189,191,(194 unpub Pollard) 195,198,199,202,203,204,208,214,215,221,223,229,232,238,242,243,247,248,249,258,261,263,265,266,269,270, 271,280,282,284,285,288,  (ASM Annual 3 Large cover, ASM annual 6 cover)

Holy MOLEY......i cant believe i owned that many covers.....just looked it up...LOL... alas...all are gone except the 59 and 160...and 59 will be gone shortly.

now...since it seems my opinions always get copied and pasted a lot here... (LOL) , should i even mention about the ASM 61 having about 40-50 things different on the art versus the published cover?

all you fellow art nerds........ Start looking to see how many differences you come up with.

I'm shocked no one has  mentioned this yet as i felt this list was pretty astute at finding these things out.

also......if this cover sells for 50k or 500k it wont affect how i think of it personally but i felt this information should be noted

so please everyone...have at it.

MIKE BURKEY 

 

That is insane, what an incredible list of covers !

The last time I read a post this jaw-dropping was when Brulato rattled off the list of highest graded mega-keys he owned, 10 or 15 years ago.....

 

[romitaman]

I had limited funds throughout  the 1990s and I always needed to move an ASM cover If some key Romita interiors or a splash became available so I had to prioritize.

Covers used to sell for more than complete ASM stories and I'd ALWAYS trade a cover for a complete 20 page ASM story as i just love looking at and reading all of the great ASM stories so I felt i was getting much bigger bang for my buck with owning 19 pages and a splash versus having 1 cover.

i've always felt (as others have guessed previously) That SPLASHES are as good and sometimes BETTER than covers.... and to get 19 MORE pages to look at as well versus owning 1 cover is just a no brainer.

I always felt that for the long term..... only a "handful" of people in the hobby would be able to afford an ASM  cover if  I ever decided to sell in the future, ..but  I believed there would be "hundreds" of people who would pay 1000 dollars for a page one day if i ever sold off my collection, so i always believed in that thinking after about 1996 or so. 

so when pre 100 ASM small size covers hit 5k in 1997-98 it was time to move them for ASM interiors...LOL

Oddly enough....... I'm a HUGE Incredible Hulk Fan.....

Amazing Spidey and Incredible Hulk were always my 2 favorite Marvel Heroes growing up reading the comics.......... I really loved the HULK covers growing up..... 

Oddly enough the 2002 Heritage Auction was what made me start collecting Incredible Hulk covers...... and I'm so glad i did!

In that auction the ASM 69 cover sold for an unheard of record 40k..... for a small art ASM cover...... and at that same time...  hulk Trimpe covers were selling for 2-4k....  I said to myself that no matter who draws the cover..an ASM cover should never EVER be worth 10-20 times a hulk cover from the same era....... so I decided to collect hulk covers and have been avidly collecting them since 2002, and I love the hunt!

I now own 50 hulk covers (and 10 or so complete Trimpe Hulk stories)!  

I also have a nice Mike Ploog 1970s collection..... which i enjoy also.

Mike

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by romitaman