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STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019
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2,429 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Well, here's a snapshot of the movies Kathleen Kennedy had a hand in either as producer, or executive/associate producer. For a lot of folks here, it's our entire childhood and most of adulthood...

1276717700_kathleenkennedy.thumb.PNG.fd3bf8f0667777b74c2a543a3113a648.PNG

No one is as great as their best nor as bad as their worst.

Her name is forever enshrined on The Last Movie I Would Ever Want to Re-watch, though.

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1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Well, here's a snapshot of the movies Kathleen Kennedy had a hand in either as producer, or executive/associate producer. For a lot of folks here, it's our entire childhood and most of adulthood...

1276717700_kathleenkennedy.thumb.PNG.fd3bf8f0667777b74c2a543a3113a648.PNG

Good on you in moving on from 'LOOK AT PEOPLE ATTACKING A WOMAN' defenses. A big step forward.

Meanwhile, concerns with her producer supervision of the Star Wars brand has been out there for a few films now. To include more than one director dismissal over creative differences. It really is okay for people to question her modern contributions without it turning into an unquestionable status due to earlier wonderful contributions.

Edited by Bosco685
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1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Meanwhile, concerns with her producer supervision of the Star Wars brand has been out there for a few films now. To include more than one director dismissal over creative differences. It really is okay for people to question her modern contributions without it turning into an unquestionable status due to earlier wonderful contributions.

I'm aware of some fandom hate for Kathleen Kennedy, I'm just not sure why, as I remember it existed well before Last Jedi. Was it The Force Awakens? I'm not sure why some people blame her for, what I'm not sure, the supposed ruination of Star Wars? Isn't that more on the shoulders of George Lucas when he screwed up the Original Trilogy with his awful Special Edition additions and the awful unwatchable (with the exception of Darth Maul and ROTS) Prequel films (which Kennedy had no hand in)?

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I'm aware of some fandom hate for Kathleen Kennedy, I'm just not sure why, as I remember it existed well before Last Jedi. Was it The Force Awakens? I'm not sure why some people blame her for, what I'm not sure, the supposed ruination of Star Wars? Isn't that more on the shoulders of George Lucas when he screwed up the Original Trilogy with his awful Special Edition additions and the awful unwatchable (with the exception of Darth Maul and ROTS) Prequel films (which Kennedy had no hand in)?

Revenge of the Sith is awesome, you bung!

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4 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I'm aware of some fandom hate for Kathleen Kennedy, I'm just not sure why, as I remember it existed well before Last Jedi. Was it The Force Awakens? I'm not sure why some people blame her for, what I'm not sure, the supposed ruination of Star Wars? Isn't that more on the shoulders of George Lucas when he screwed up the Original Trilogy with his awful Special Edition additions and the awful unwatchable (with the exception of Darth Maul and ROTS) Prequel films (which Kennedy had no hand in)?

When it became Kathleen Kennedy's hurdle to deal with probably starts with her being top-of-house in the modern Star Wars film and TV universe. It comes with the job, fortunately or unfortunately.

Is there some blame to go around with George Lucas? Many hardcore fans think so. But the boss now resides in Disney, whether she allows Lucas to influence the roadmap or not.

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13 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Revenge of the Sith is awesome, you bung!

ROTS = Revenge of the Sith, which I stated was an exception. But it still has an asterisk because it still had to carry forward Haydn Christianson as Anakin Skywalker which was the biggest mistake of the Prequel films. Darth Vader is not a whiny brat.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

When it became Kathleen Kennedy's hurdle to deal with probably starts with her being top-of-house in the modern Star Wars film and TV universe. It comes with the job, fortunately or unfortunately.

Is there some blame to go around with George Lucas? Many hardcore fans think so. But the boss now resides in Disney, whether she allows Lucas to influence the roadmap or not.

As head of Star Wars, Kennedy seems to have more hits than misses. While I disagreed with bringing back the Empire, Force Awakens was still a hit and renewed global interest with the franchise. I didn't like Rogue One but it was a hit with a majority of fans and made money. Solo didn't light up the box office but it seems Star Wars fans liked it. The Mandalorian is a qualified hit for Disney+. Sure, Last Jedi divided fans, but it made money and critics loved it. So how did Kennedy ruin Star Wars again?

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3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Oh, really? Well, then why did his grandson carry on what he started? hm

:kidaround:

I get it. And Luke was a little whiny when we first met him on Tatooine, but for Haydn/Anakin to go from whiny, easily manipulated, and seemingly low on intelligence to the great Darth Vader? No.

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Just now, @therealsilvermane said:
7 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Oh, really? Well, then why did his grandson carry on what he started? hm

:kidaround:

I get it. And Luke was a little whiny when we first met him on Tatooine, but for Haydn/Anakin to go from whiny, easily manipulated, and seemingly low on intelligence to the great Darth Vader? No.

I understand your point, but working backward from original trilogy Darth Vader and imagining his childhood, you'd have to assume that he was powerful but always wanting more, wanting more, and not getting what he wanted, not getting enough respect, not being treated "grown up" when he was still a kid, which is pretty much the definition of a whiny brat.

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25 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I understand your point, but working backward from original trilogy Darth Vader and imagining his childhood, you'd have to assume that he was powerful but always wanting more, wanting more, and not getting what he wanted, not getting enough respect, not being treated "grown up" when he was still a kid, which is pretty much the definition of a whiny brat.

Sure, on paper, Anakin was flawed, ambitious, gave in to his emotions, got married on the side. Fine. However, executed on film, Haydn Christianson as Anakin was a major misstep. That's not just my opinion, it's the majority fan opinion. Anakin needed to be portrayed as a person of high intelligence. Instead, we got awkwardness, dumb lines better suited for Hulk ("sand is gritty, you're smooth" ugh) , and a lot of crying. We didn't get high IQ level from Haydn Christianson. We got whiny brat. While Revenge of the Sith featured better filmmaking, it still couldn't fix the mistake of bad casting for Anakin.

I think the only way to fix it is to make a Disney+ show or movie featuring Darth Vader in the early years of the Empire.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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13 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Sure, on paper, Anakin was flawed, ambitious, gave in to his emotions, got married on the side. Fine. However, executed on film, Haydn Christianson as Anakin was a major misstep. That's not just my opinion, it's the majority fan opinion. Anakin needed to be portrayed as a person of high intelligence. Instead, we got awkwardness, dumb lines better suited for Hulk ("sand is gritty, you're smooth" ugh) , and a lot of crying. We didn't get high IQ level from Haydn Christianson. We got whiny brat. While Revenge of the Sith featured better filmmaking, it still couldn't fix the mistake of bad casting for Anakin.

I think the only way to fix it is to make a Disney+ show or movie featuring Darth Vader in the early years of the Empire.

I don't completely disagree, but the "high IQ" comments imply "high emotional IQ" which is usually the opposite from "high IQ" in the "nerd sense" of IQ.  I grew up with a boy who won national competitions for intelligence, but he often cracked (quite dramatically) under playground teasing.

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44 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

As head of Star Wars, Kennedy seems to have more hits than misses. While I disagreed with bringing back the Empire, Force Awakens was still a hit and renewed global interest with the franchise. I didn't like Rogue One but it was a hit with a majority of fans and made money. Solo didn't light up the box office but it seems Star Wars fans liked it. The Mandalorian is a qualified hit for Disney+. Sure, Last Jedi divided fans, but it made money and critics loved it. So how did Kennedy ruin Star Wars again?

Well, if we go by critics and movie-goer satisfaction, we have one story.

Star_Wars_Ratings.PNG.997429cd603165f7385ea0f55d8f482c.PNG

So where the modern films started off strong critically and audience-wise, a shift took place over the past few years. With ROS, I still challenge that 86% as being statistically reliable. It never shifts. Ever.

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1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Anakin needed to be portrayed as a person of high intelligence. Instead, we got awkwardness, dumb lines better suited for Hulk ("sand is gritty, you're smooth" ugh) , and a lot of crying. We didn't get high IQ level from Haydn Christianson. We got whiny brat. While Revenge of the Sith featured better filmmaking, it still couldn't fix the mistake of bad casting for Anakin.

I respectively disagree. Note that every single criticism you make in the above lies with the -script rather than with his performance. I firmly believe Hayden and Portman both did the best with what they were given -- but it was nearly impossible to make that dialogue sound realistic, let alone compelling.

I blame Lucas for his ridiculous -script (esp. the dialogue) and poor direction rather than Hayden's acting per se.

I've actually enjoyed Hayden's work in other films, including Shattered Glass and Takers.

However, Jake Lloyd was *absolutely* miscast in The Phantom Menace. That movie could have been *almost* passable had Lucas gotten a solid child actor to play the role -- say, Haley Joel Osment, who was same age and nailed The Sixth Sense that same year.

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2 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Anakin needed to be portrayed as a person of high intelligence. Instead, we got awkwardness, dumb lines better suited for Hulk ("sand is gritty, you're smooth" ugh) , and a lot of crying. We didn't get high IQ level from Haydn Christianson. We got whiny brat. 

His "I HATE THEM!" sand people moment in Attack of the Clones is probably the greatest bit of unintentional comedy in the whole series.  Really, we're supposed to believe that whiny little person_without_enough_empathy would one day become Darth Vader?  Sell it somewhere else.

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