Mr Sneeze Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: Not me. I figured the old characters would have a cameo, and that's about it. I WANTED something new. I WANTED new characters. I LIKE the new characters. A lot of people liked the new characters... I don’t have an issue with any of the changes or the new characters in TLJ. It just seemed to be poorly directed and written. bane and Larryw7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryw7 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: I think they wanted JJ for all of these movies in the first place. He just didn’t want to devote his life to making a new Star Wars movie every year. He’s a great filmmaker, so it’s good to have him doing it. When you say ‘Lucasfilm’ has a problem, what ‘problem’ is it you think they have? Since the first movie they’ve created the #2 and #3 highest grossing Star Wars movies ever, both domestically and worldwide. You think they’re worried about online critics? I’ll make a movie every day of the week that fan boys hate, but that brings in $1.3 BILLION at the box office. IX is not going to make the same money that the other two episodes did. The backlash to TLJ is real. C'mon, within months, TLJ was outgrossed by Black Panther, IW and more than likely I2 when it's box office run is over. Meanwhile, Solo was a huge bomb. The SW brand is tarnished. Variety, the Hollywood Reporter and other trade publications have written several articles about this unfortunate chain of events. I love SW, but TLJ was a misfire. It alienated old fans, bored new ones(for example,my 17 year old godson and his friends), ruined the franchise's goodwill in non domestic markets, and grossed over 300 million less than the last installment. The franchise is in trouble,and other studios smell blood in the water. Mystafo and bentbryan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 what have the sales been for DVD/Blu-rays on TLJ and I really want to call it TJ like Tijuana, it's a mess, yeah you went to it but you don't want to talk about it and kinda regret it Mystafo, Larryw7 and greggy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Mr Sneeze said: I don’t have an issue with any of the changes or the new characters in TLJ. It just seemed to be poorly directed and written. Totally agree - well premised, horribly executed. 1 hour ago, jsilverjanet said: what have the sales been for DVD/Blu-rays on TLJ and I really want to call it TJ like Tijuana, it's a mess, yeah you went to it but you don't want to talk about it and kinda regret it TLJ, set in TJ...would’ve been way better, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 22 hours ago, Larryw7 said: IX is not going to make the same money that the other two episodes did. Most likely not, but then again sequels, and especially the third in a series of films, don't. And it's not just a third in a series, but a FIFTH in a brand. But... it is J.J. Abrahms, so I will be holding you to this statement. 22 hours ago, Larryw7 said: The backlash to TLJ is real. C'mon, within months, TLJ was outgrossed by Black Panther, IW and more than likely I2 when it's box office run is over. Two of the highest grossing movies ever. It was out grossed by two of the highest grossing movies ever. A SEQUEL got beat by two of the highest grossing movies ever. You can spin it however you like, having a movie finish as the 8th highest grossing movie of all time is NOT a failure. Sorry, but you'll never convince me of this. 22 hours ago, Larryw7 said: Meanwhile, Solo was a huge bomb. Yes, Solo WAS a huge bomb. And let's take a look at that bomb: Original charcters from the the original movies, put into a more Star Wars conventional style of story. Failed. Got news for Star Wars fans: Harrison Ford isn’t going to still be playing Han Solo. Fantasy lives on forever, but in real life people get old. 22 hours ago, Larryw7 said: The SW brand is tarnished. It's had one bad showing. The movie closest to what Star Wars fans want, the other three movies have each broke a BILLLION DOLLARS. How is that TARNISHED. Absurd. 22 hours ago, Larryw7 said: Variety, the Hollywood Reporter and other trade publications have written several articles about this unfortunate chain of events. 1 What I'VE read in those stories is how China (soon to be the largest movie market in the world) just doesn't seem to have a taste for this series like the U.S. does, and how Solo was a bomb. The other movies have been reported as rockin' the box office. 22 hours ago, Larryw7 said: I love SW, but TLJ was a misfire. It alienated old fans, bored new ones(for example,my 17 year old godson and his friends), ruined the franchise's goodwill in non domestic markets, and grossed over 300 million less than the last installment. The franchise is in trouble,and other studios smell blood in the water. It grossed 300 million less than the FIRST NEW STAR WARS MOVIE in TEN YEARS and the FIRST new Star Wars movie to move the story forward in 35 years. Of course it wasn't going to live up to that. Very, very rarely does a sequel EVER outdo the original. I understand you don’t like it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to distort facts is just disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, jsilverjanet said: what have the sales been for DVD/Blu-rays on TLJ and I really want to call it TJ like Tijuana, it's a mess, yeah you went to it but you don't want to talk about it and kinda regret it Fastest selling DVD of 2018. First week it out sold the rest of the Top 100 combined. It sold 555,000 copies it's first week (80% of which is Blu-Ray - mo money). According to thenumbers.com, it's already did as much in DVD/Blu-Ray sales after 3 months, as Rogue One did for all of 2017 (both released in April). If that's a tarnished failure, I'll take it all day long. The resistance has had plenty of time to bad mouth this movie - it still rocked in DVD/BluRay sales. Edited July 21, 2018 by Chuck Gower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jharvey Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said: Fastest selling DVD of 2018. First week it out sold the rest of the Top 100 combined. It sold 555,000 copies it's first week (80% of which is Blu-Ray - mo money). According to thenumbers.com, it's already did as much in DVD/Blu-Ray sales after 3 months, as Rogue One did for all of 2017 (both released in April). If that's a tarnished failure, I'll take it all day long. The resistance has had plenty of time to bad mouth this movie - it still rocked in DVD/BluRay sales. That's nice. I will still never pay to see a Rian Johnson movie again. Larryw7, Azkaban and bane 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryw7 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Hey, Chuck, if you want to argue about whether the SW brand is tarnished, don't argue with me, argue with Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Deadline Hollywood and the other trades. In the case of SW, the third film rebounds from the second because there's a giant hook to bring them back. ROTJ had people wondering about Han's fate and was the putative end of the saga. Episode 3 had how Anakin becomes Vader. What's the hook for IX? Nothing, really. The lackluster story of rebels vs. "The First Order"(ie, the.Empire) is hackneyed and should have been over with ROTJ. No one cares about whether Rey hooks up with an emo mass murderer except doe eyed fans who write slash fiction. .Maybe the marketing will be so great that everyone just has to see it. I know I will, opening day. But this will be the first time I'm not excited to see the next Star Wars movie, and I know I'm not alone. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Larryw7 said: What's the hook for IX? Nothing, really. Disagree, the hook couldn’t be more clear — will the Falcon make it to a gas station in time? And will they accept Leia’s debit card? “I told you we should have put more than five bucks worth in!” - Barf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, Larryw7 said: Hey, Chuck, if you want to argue Not arguing. Just trying to figure out how the 8th highest grossing movie of all time is considered a failure and a tarnish on the Star Wars money machine. 23 minutes ago, Larryw7 said: about whether the SW brand is tarnished, don't argue with me, argue with Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Deadline Hollywood and the other trades. Sure. Direct me to a link where they say The Last Jedi is a financial failure and its earnings have tarnished the franchise. As far as their opinion on the content - I could care less. If I'm a business and I'm selling widgets to faceless minions it's all about money. And The Last Jedi is the 8th highest grossing movie of all time. They sold plenty of those widgets. On DVD/BluRay too. 23 minutes ago, Larryw7 said: In the case of SW, the third film rebounds from the second because there's a giant hook to bring them back. ROTJ had people wondering about Han's fate and was the putative end of the saga. Episode 3 had how Anakin becomes Vader. What's the hook for IX? Nothing, really. The lackluster story of rebels vs. "The First Order"(ie, the.Empire) is hackneyed and should have been over with ROTJ. No one cares about whether Rey hooks up with an emo mass murderer except doe eyed fans who write slash fiction. 2 We shall see. 23 minutes ago, Larryw7 said: .Maybe the marketing will be so great that everyone just has to see it. I know I will, opening day. But this will be the first time I'm not excited to see the next Star Wars movie, and I know I'm not alone. Yep, and you'll be there with money in hand. And to a corporation that's all that matters. It's not important what they do with all of this, hell, SOMEONE will be unhappy and post about it on the internet. Them widgets is pop'lar tho. They'll still sell plenty. Opinions are worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, jharvey said: That's nice. I will still never pay to see a Rian Johnson movie again. I'll never pay to see a Transformers movie. For me to claim they were a failure because of that though is silly. They banked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Speaking of Transformers turds, those last two movies Age of Extinction and Last Knight did over $420 Million and over $300 Million respectively in Southeast Asia alone! Put some bio-tech in the Star Wars movies and maybe we can jump start that franchise over there. I can see it now: Rey in a battle suit made of adamantium laced with unstable midichlorian molecules against Transformer-like Storm Troopers - and slicing through them with ease - the greatest living Jedi.... What does everyone think of that idea? Edited July 21, 2018 by Chuck Gower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broke as a Joke Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Funny to bring up Transformers into the discussion because those movies are bad movies that seem to make enough money to get another one made. I have never considered Star Wars movies to be lumped into that category of push it out there for the profits, but now after TLJ that has sadly become the case. Episode 9 will make money. If that is all that matters and the only thing somebody can get excited about after it's released then this ship has sunk. mattn792 and media_junkie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I have to admit it’s hard to go against Chucks numbers especially in today’s streaming market i didn’t like the movie and I don’t plan on ever watching it again greggy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 8 hours ago, jharvey said: That's nice. I will still never pay to see a Rian Johnson movie again. The chances that his trilogy ever sees the light of the day is zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 21 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said: Funny to bring up Transformers into the discussion because those movies are bad movies that seem to make enough money to get another one made. I have never considered Star Wars movies to be lumped into that category of push it out there for the profits, but now after TLJ that has sadly become the case. Episode 9 will make money. If that is all that matters and the only thing somebody can get excited about after it's released then this ship has sunk. It’s interesting to hear that take on it. After the horrid Episode 1,2 and 3, I didn’t hear anywhere near the same cry of the franchise being dead. Of course, my son who was between the ages of 10-13 when those movies came out absolutely LOVES them. But realistically, as a human being with actual critical reasoning skills, that isn’t blinded by nostalgia, those films are horrible. The dialogue is insipid, the performances stiff or at times grossly over performed, the story is just plain dumb - are you telling me these movies were made ‘for the love of Star Wars’? Those movies were Transformers movies cloaked in Star Wars ‘history’. But it was a history every Star Wars fan KNEW. So they could easily follow along and if there was anything to discuss it was having to do with the color of light saber streams or Jar Jar’s invasion into the mythos - easily fixed to keep from upsetting the nerd perch upon the throne of Star Wars know-it-all-ism. But the NEW movies - you don’t KNOW what’s going to happen - and this is frightening to a fan base so used to being easily coddled with a rigid dogma of information, memorized with Wikipedia like precision to show anyone and everyone how much more of a knowledgeable fan they are. Like all coddled children they are horrified of the unknown. But they keep paying the money to see it. If I have to create product for the masses, and very few creators can ever claim they DON’T - especially people who make blockbuster movies - get real - it’s ALL about money - from day one - but if I’m going to create product for the masses, I’m going to do it the way I want. You CAN’T listen to the fans, because for everyone who hates Last Jedi there’s one who likes it. The producer isn’t reading blogs and forums and going “Oh my God! PaisleyLightSaber from Topeka, Kansas just posted he’s done with Star Wars because Rey hasn’t suffered enough! We have to change things!” There going to do it the way they want. And the money will still be there. 10 years from now it’ll all be in Wikipedia and everyone will be just as much of a brainiac on all things Star Wars as they were 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fett Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Every time I walk by a pile of dog poop i'm not scared of it, I just don't want to go anywhere near it, (you know, the smell) It's perfectly fine for millions of fans to not like this bad story. Larryw7 and Azkaban 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Chuck Gower said: It’s interesting to hear that take on it. After the horrid Episode 1,2 and 3, I didn’t hear anywhere near the same cry of the franchise being dead. Of course, my son who was between the ages of 10-13 when those movies came out absolutely LOVES them. But realistically, as a human being with actual critical reasoning skills, that isn’t blinded by nostalgia, those films are horrible. The dialogue is insipid, the performances stiff or at times grossly over performed, the story is just plain dumb - are you telling me these movies were made ‘for the love of Star Wars’? Those movies were Transformers movies cloaked in Star Wars ‘history’. But it was a history every Star Wars fan KNEW. So they could easily follow along and if there was anything to discuss it was having to do with the color of light saber streams or Jar Jar’s invasion into the mythos - easily fixed to keep from upsetting the nerd perch upon the throne of Star Wars know-it-all-ism. But the NEW movies - you don’t KNOW what’s going to happen - and this is frightening to a fan base so used to being easily coddled with a rigid dogma of information, memorized with Wikipedia like precision to show anyone and everyone how much more of a knowledgeable fan they are. Like all coddled children they are horrified of the unknown. Your analysis of I-III is spot on. However, especially based on where I cut your quote off, I think your analysis of the fan base's reaction to TLJ is way off base. The unknown is hardly the problem. At least from my own viewpoint, the plot of TLJ was actually very well premised, but the execution of it was eight shades of awful. Largely because it suffered from many of the same pitfalls as I-III, with one glaring exception -- there already was a baseline for all of the characters who had already appeared within IV-VII. I-III introduced so many new ones, giving Lucas had plenty of leeway on developing them. VIII, not so much. But rather than run with the well established baseline, the TLJ politburo choose to take out the editing pen, toss all established baselines in the trash, and then dance on the landfill they ended up in. Think about what we already knew about the characters from IV-VII, and then compare that to the following: Leia - Can survive close proximity warhead explosions and exposure to deep space for an extended period of time. And can either fly, or is now Magneto. Luke - Would've fit right in on the set of Maury shouting "Wha'evah! I do what I wahnt!" Snoke - Dresses like a refugee from Liberace's garage sale, is about as menacing as Eeyore. Kylo - Never wears a shirt. BB8 - Got the II/III R2D2 treatment, and is now a one droid wrecking crew ready to take on the entire First Order. The ships - suddenly need a Citgo (etc.) It was basically like watching an entirely different franchise. Change was obviously coming to the Star Wars franchise just based on the original casts' age (and sadly, Carrie Fisher's untimely death), but TLJ wasn't change -- it was an Axel Alonso on the franchise's history. So just like with Marvel's scorched earth policy on their heroes, the backlash to TLJ is well justified. But you and others have already pointed it out -- people are still going to show up in droves, if nothing else in hope that Star Wars was made "right" again. It's a sci-fi Floyd Mayweather. Going forward, maybe Disney will stop releasing garbage with the Star Wars brand on it. Or maybe we really are in the "Spaceballs: The Flamethrower!" marketing era. Only time will tell. Azkaban 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 very good points and for me, episode 8 made everything built up in episode 7 (search for luke) unnecessary/pointless. Larryw7 and greggy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azkaban Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 7/21/2018 at 1:36 PM, Chuck Gower said: Speaking of Transformers turds, those last two movies Age of Extinction and Last Knight did over $420 Million and over $300 Million respectively in Southeast Asia alone! Put some bio-tech in the Star Wars movies and maybe we can jump start that franchise over there. I can see it now: Rey in a battle suit made of adamantium laced with unstable midichlorian molecules against Transformer-like Storm Troopers - and slicing through them with ease - the greatest living Jedi.... What does everyone think of that idea? that sounds better than what we got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
