STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019 6 6

[mattn792]

4 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

It did hurt him, the reaction to the pre-quels, which amazingly now, most people seem to have forgotten the outrage over them.

I’m with the Chuckster on this, Lucas’ involvement seems unlikely given his wildly divergent view on where he would have taken VII-9.

You think the fan backlash to TLJ was bad?  Imagine the outrage over three movies about bacteria.

Edited August 2, 2018 by mattn792
9

[Broke as a Joke]

So if it comes to be true that Lucas is involved with Episode 9, does that mean the confidence has been shaken at Disney?  That is the gist I'm getting from this.

[Prince Namor]

20 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

So if it comes to be true that Lucas is involved with Episode 9, does that mean the confidence has been shaken at Disney?  That is the gist I'm getting from this.

What level of ‘involved’?

I’ve seen people say he was heavily involved with Solo, when in reality he had a long conversation with Ron Howard about the character. 

This whole idea comes from fans who believe Disney is in a panic because some fans didn’t like TLJ.

These main movies have made over a billion dollars EACH. There’s no panic. Not anymore than there is for making any movie that costs multi millions to make. 

Yeah, actually HIRING George Lucas would be a step back for Disney. Why would they need to? They’re already successful with the franchise without his expensive input.

I doubt it would happen anyway - Lucas is a control freak, he’d be a nightmare for the new regime to work with - and figuring out money and licensing - very very doubtful. 

Will he visit JJ on set. Probably. Will they talk shop? I’m sure. Hire him? I just don’t see it. 

Wishful thinking for fans who think he’ll deliver the magic of them being 13 again. 

[MetalPSI]

6 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

It did hurt him, the reaction to the pre-quels, which amazingly now, most people seem to have forgotten the outrage over them.

With Disney's movies it was: "It's too much like the old Star Wars!" and then, "It's too much different from Star Wars!"

Best to make the movie they want to make and not listen to fans, because there will always be those who are unhappy with whatever they do.

Exactly. I really really wish Hollywood would just make movies again. Instead, there is a big to do about getting a target audience and making the most profit. I want to watch movies, I don't want statistics.

Give me some cool ideas and do thing that haven't been done before, and allow me to decide what I like and don't like. I already know I don't like what the majority of people like, which is why the industry doesn't get my money

[Number 6]

1 hour ago, Broke as a Joke said:

So if it comes to be true that Lucas is involved with Episode 9, does that mean the confidence has been shaken at Disney?  That is the gist I'm getting from this.

If Lucas’ involvement is true - and I stress “if” as I’m not convinced - I would see it more as Disney trying to throw as many elements in as possible to push the gross numbers of the last chapter as high as they possible go, probably going “highest grossing movie of all time” status. 

If it is true, at that point it wouldn’t surprise me if Han Solo came back as a force ghost just to cover all their bases. 

[MetalPSI]

1 minute ago, Number 6 said:

If Lucas’ involvement is true - and I stress “if” as I’m not convinced - I would see it more as Disney trying to throw as many elements in as possible to push the gross numbers of the last chapter as high as they possible go, probably going “highest grossing movie of all time” status. 

If it is true, at that point it wouldn’t surprise me if Han Solo came back as a force ghost just to cover all their bases. 

If Han Solo were to come back, I'd demand Darth Maul make an appearance to kick Rey's butt as well

[Larryw7]

6 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

I'm not worked up about it at all. I'm just shocked at how guilable Star Wars fans are at unoffcial 'news' that has no credible source.

It's not gullibility. These websites have connections, and do get scoops that they know before any official outlet publishes the news. They could be wrong, I take it with a grain of salt. But it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

[Larryw7]

Remember when Gene Roddenberry was "creative consultant" for Star Trek 2-6? That's what Lucas' job would be. All of this nonsense about midiclorians and bacteria will not be part of IX just because George might give the filmmakers a few ideas.

[Number 6]

11 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

There are other ways to use the actors in the film without them having to play their original characters, and even not as simple as having Fisher play Anakin's mom or whatever. He could've found a way a) to give tribute to the fans nostalgia and b) to give tribute to the actors for their part in the original trilogy.

He apparently didn't feel either was necessary.

 

But Lucas did include some of the original cast in the prequels - Anthony Daniels, Peter Mayhew, Frank Oz, Ian McDiarmid, Kenny Baker (nominally if you believe Daniels’ claims). 

My impression is those inclusions were sufficient fan service for the OT fans. 

I can’t speak for all SW fans, but I know I personally never expected Hamill, Ford or Fisher to be included in the prequels, even as some recasting cameo. It would have been too weird. None of my friends expected it either. I suppose there may be some faction of SW fans that are disgruntled about those 3 not being included, but I’ve never heard of it. 

I do agree with your overall point, I’m dubious about Lucas actually being involved, and if he is how substantial that involvement would be. 

Aside from the financial aspect you already mentioned, I would think Lucas has grown accustomed to staff bowing, scraping and hanging on his every word. My guess is that the new creative team treating is input as ‘take-or-leave-it’ would be very unsatisfactory. 

Either way, I don’t foresee anything meaningful coming out of it, just the optics of having him supposedly involved. 

[Number 6]

9 minutes ago, Larryw7 said:

Remember when Gene Roddenberry was "creative consultant" for Star Trek 2-6? That's what Lucas' job would be. All of this nonsense about midiclorians and bacteria will not be part of IX just because George might give the filmmakers a few ideas.

IF it’s true, that’s my guess as to what it would be analogous to. 

Roddenberry hated WoK and fired off an open letter detailing all the things he didn’t like about it, why it wasn’t ‘trueTrek’ 

Yet his name is on the screen because the filmmakers recognized that it was important to the rabid Trek fan base. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Number 6

[Larryw7]

1 minute ago, Number 6 said:

IF it’s true, that’s my guess as to what it would be analogous to. 

Roddenberry hated WoK and fired off an open letter detailing all the things he didn’t like about it, why it wasn’t ‘trueTrek’ 

Yet his name is on the screen because the filmmakers recognized that it was important to the rabid Trek fan base. 

He loved 3 and 4, was disappointed in 5(who wasn't), and was satisfied with 6. Kind of like GL liking Rogue One and Solo, hating TFA and being ambivalent about TLJ(he said it was "beautifully made").

[Number 6]

12 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

It did hurt him, the reaction to the pre-quels, which amazingly now, most people seem to have forgotten the outrage over them.

With Disney's movies it was: "It's too much like the old Star Wars!" and then, "It's too much different from Star Wars!"

Best to make the movie they want to make and not listen to fans, because there will always be those who are unhappy with whatever they do.

I must really be out of the loop. 

So the complaint about TLJ is that it’s “too new”?

Skywalkers and AT-AT walkers and Jedi training and a salt planet that looks like Hoth and lightsabers and blowing a big ship up? That’s “too new”?

I’ll agree with criticism that the Austin Powers-style gross-out humor of sea-cow milking is inappropriate for a Star Wars movie. And I’ll agree that the character of Luke Skywalker was mishandled. And the casino subplot is disconnected from the main plot  But my issue with these points and others has nothing to do with their “newness”  

While it’s not a soft remake like TFA, one of my gripes is that TLJ just feels like more of the same. 

I actually really liked the character of Rey and was interested to where her character would go. As nice as it is to see the old cast I almost wish they hadn’t been in it (or, at least had their parts reduced to brief cameos) as it just becomes a distraction from the new characters and contributes to the feeling of “sameness” of it all. 

I guess my issue is that when the filmmakers say their going to show me something new I take them literally at their word. 

So show me something NEW: no more Skywalkers, no more Death Stars/planet killers/whatever, no more AT-ATs, no more speederbikes, no more lightsabers, no more Jedis, no more TIE fighters, no more X-wings.  SHOW ME SOMETHING NEW. 

For years Lucas/Lucasfilm/Fox/Disney/Kennedy/J.J./etc. have been telling us how expansive the Star Wars universe is, how there’s so many new stories to tell.  Yet, they keep coming back to Skywalkers and Han Solo and Boba Fett.  SHOW ME SOMETHING NEW.

Sacralige? Blasphemous? Star Wars did it all from scratch in ‘77  Not saying it’s easy, but why can’t it be done again?  I’m up for it.  I’m a little disappointed that Rey couldn’t have been a part of something more original and fresh.  

(And when I say “show me something new” I don’t mean “subvert my expectations”. That’s lazy hipster bs)

The OT wasn’t deep and it certainly wasn’t perfect.  But what it did do is show that on rare occasions sequels can be more than a cash grab, they can actually tell an overall, satisfying multi-part story arc.  And it created a fictional universe that had a sense depth to it and characters that audiences cared about so that audiences were left WANTING more but didn’t actually NEED anything more from those characters or story arc to have a satisfying entertainment experience.  

I love the OT but I’m completely satisfied with it as a stand-alone trilogy.  I will buy into the notion that the Star Wars universe is bigger than that trilogy, but they’re going to have to do more than just SAY it, they need to make good on that promise, and stop falling back on what’s come before  

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Number 6

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

But Lucas did include some of the original cast in the prequels - Anthony Daniels, Peter Mayhew, Frank Oz, Ian McDiarmid, Kenny Baker (nominally if you believe Daniels’ claims). 

My impression is those inclusions were sufficient fan service for the OT fans. 

I can’t speak for all SW fans, but I know I personally never expected Hamill, Ford or Fisher to be included in the prequels, even as some recasting cameo. It would have been too weird. None of my friends expected it either. I suppose there may be some faction of SW fans that are disgruntled about those 3 not being included, but I’ve never heard of it. 

I do agree with your overall point, I’m dubious about Lucas actually being involved, and if he is how substantial that involvement would be. 

Aside from the financial aspect you already mentioned, I would think Lucas has grown accustomed to staff bowing, scraping and hanging on his every word. My guess is that the new creative team treating is input as ‘take-or-leave-it’ would be very unsatisfactory. 

Either way, I don’t foresee anything meaningful coming out of it, just the optics of having him supposedly involved. 

There was some talk about them not being included in any way at the time - not sure it was the outrage today's generations shows over simple things - but there were some fans who would've liked to have seen some way for them to have a part. 

[bentbryan]

17 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I must really be out of the loop. 

So the complaint about TLJ is that it’s “too new”?

Skywalkers and AT-AT walkers and Jedi training and a salt planet that looks like Hoth and lightsabers and blowing a big ship up? That’s “too new”?

I’ll agree with criticism that the Austin Powers-style gross-out humor of sea-cow milking is inappropriate for a Star Wars movie. And I’ll agree that the character of Luke Skywalker was mishandled. And the casino subplot is disconnected from the main plot  But my issue with these points and others has nothing to do with their “newness”  

While it’s not a soft remake like TLJ, one of my gripes is that TLJ just feels like more of the same. 

I actually really liked the character of Rey and was interested to where her character would go. As nice as it is to see the old cast I almost wish they hadn’t been in it (or, at least had their parts reduced to brief cameos) as it just becomes a distraction from the new characters and contributes to the feeling of “sameness” of it all. 

I guess my issue is that when the filmmakers say their going to show me something new I take them literally at their word. 

So show me something NEW: no more Skywalkers, no more Death Stars/planet killers/whatever, no more AT-ATs, no more speederbikes, no more lightsabers, no more Jedis, no more TIE fighters, no more X-wings.  SHOW ME SOMETHING NEW. 

For years Lucas/Lucasfilm/Fox/Disney/Kennedy/J.J./etc. have been telling us how expansive the Star Wars universe is, how there’s so many new stories to tell.  Yet, they keep coming back to Skywalkers and Han Solo and Boba Fett.  SHOW ME SOMETHING NEW.

Sacralige? Blasphemous? Star Wars did it all from scratch in ‘77  Not saying it’s easy, but why can’t it be done again?  I’m up for it.  I’m a little disappointed that Rey couldn’t have been a part of something more original and fresh.  

(And when I say “show me something new” I don’t mean “subvert my expectations”. That’s lazy hipster bs)

The OT wasn’t deep and it certainly wasn’t perfect.  But what it did do is show that on rare occasions sequels can be more than a cash grab, they can actually tell an overall, satisfying multi-part story arc.  And it created a fictional universe that had a sense depth to it and characters that audiences cared about so that audiences were left WANTING more but didn’t actually NEED anything more from those characters or story arc to have a satisfying entertainment experience.  

I love the OT but I’m completely satisfied with it as a stand-alone trilogy.  I will buy into the notion that the Star Wars universe is bigger than that trilogy, but they’re going to have to do more than just SAY it, they need to make good on that promise, and stop falling back on what’s come before  

 

You had me right up until “no more AT-ATs” 

[fett]

8 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

It did hurt him, the reaction to the pre-quels, which amazingly now, most people seem to have forgotten the outrage over them.

With Disney's movies it was: "It's too much like the old Star Wars!" and then, "It's too much different from Star Wars!"

Best to make the movie they want to make and not listen to fans, because there will always be those who are unhappy with whatever they do.

I remember the excitement preceding Episode I, and the negativity afterwards, but in my opinion it's not even close to being the same level of backlash from such a significant portion of the fanbase. I was 10 when the original Star Wars came out so it's been in my genes for that long. I do admit my opinion was shaded going into the movie due to the rumblings I heard from Mark Hamill and others over the story. 

[Prince Namor]

2 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

You had me right up until “no more AT-ATs” 

See and that's just it. (And I'm not picking on you - we all have our wants and want nots of what we want in a Star Wars movie)

What do you change?

In an age of social media, there will always be SOMEONE who doesn't like what is changed and they'll go to great lengths to try and make it an issue of outrage. The Last Jedi was claimed to have been sabotaged by a Facebook group “Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys” - (it would explain how the score is a 46% on RT and 73% on imdb) and Rotten Tomatoes went out of their way to block the FB group when they said before the movie they were going to try and sabotage Black Panthers RT score.  

Do these losers not have anything better to do with their time? Go troll a terrorist facebook account, be useful with your existence.

So really, it's best the studio just make the movie they want to make. Because if you're going to get blasted one way or the other, you may as well do what YOU believe in. Eatin' s**t trying to please people is the worst way to go out.

[Prince Namor]

2 minutes ago, fett said:

I remember the excitement preceding Episode I, and the negativity afterwards, but in my opinion it's not even close to being the same level of backlash from such a significant portion of the fanbase. I was 10 when the original Star Wars came out so it's been in my genes for that long. I do admit my opinion was shaded going into the movie due to the rumblings I heard from Mark Hamill and others over the story. 

We didn't have the level of social media we do now.

Every thought anyone has can be instantly typed to the world.

[Number 6]

1 hour ago, bentbryan said:

You had me right up until “no more AT-ATs” 

Don’t get me wrong, when I saw ESB as a kid when it came out I thought AT-ATs were one of the coolest things. 

But ever since ESB there’s been some version of it in every dang SW movie. 

For me, part of what made made the AT-ATs so cool is it was something new we hadn’t seen before and it was kind of this throwaway thing. The filmmakers were like ‘their being attacked on an ice planet. Hey, will throw in some giant robot dinosaurs, yeah’. It was just so WTH. I’m sure they never envisioned those becoming an indispensable part of SW tech. 

AT-ATs were cool, but that’s what I want: to sit there in the theatre and have that same feeling of “aw man THAT’S cool!” not “oh, it’s those.....again.”

Edited August 2, 2018 by Number 6

[Number 6]

52 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

There was some talk about them not being included in any way at the time - not sure it was the outrage today's generations shows over simple things - but there were some fans who would've liked to have seen some way for them to have a part. 

Ok, I’ll take your word for it, I must have totally missed that. 

[Number 6]

31 minutes ago, fett said:

I remember the excitement preceding Episode I, and the negativity afterwards, but in my opinion it's not even close to being the same level of backlash from such a significant portion of the fanbase. I was 10 when the original Star Wars came out so it's been in my genes for that long. I do admit my opinion was shaded going into the movie due to the rumblings I heard from Mark Hamill and others over the story. 

I was 4 when the first SW movie came out. 

I wasn’t outraged by Phantom Menace; just remember when the credits rolled thinking “ soooo...that’s it then.”  Very disappointed. 

Looking back it shouldn’t have surprised me as the content of the prequels was never meant to be - and shouldn’t have been - the main story.