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STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019
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2,429 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

I don't think anyone is, or can ever be, worse than Jar Jar.  Not Rose.  Not Hayden Vader.  Not Vice Admiral Lauren Dern.  Not those stupid bug eyed hamster looking things thrown into TLJ.  

Jar Jar is his own level of bad.

Meesa say you take that back about Jar Jar! lol

 

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Read more of the leaks and it seems there is some photo proof to back some of it up. It seems pretty bad, nearly completely ripping off ROTJ but without the charm or good will leading into it. I think I now get why so many folks were mad at the GOT ending lol.

Edited by zhamlau
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7 hours ago, mattn792 said:

I don't think anyone is, or can ever be, worse than Jar Jar.  Not Rose.  Not Hayden Vader.  Not Vice Admiral Lauren Dern.  Not those stupid bug eyed hamster looking things thrown into TLJ.  

Jar Jar is his own level of bad.

Jar Jar is so bad he circles back into good. Jar Jar will always be a thing. Those others, not so much.

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On 11/1/2019 at 6:53 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Look at it from the perspective of the people who think it's an abomination. I understand that you like the movie. Many - very many - do not.

I live in a sci-fi (Star Wars, comic book, etc) movie-loving area. The fact that I could get opening weekend tickets (at 2 of the highest-profile theaters) more than a week after they went on sale is a big red flag to me. People are probably still speaking with their wallets after TLJ as they did with Solo.

I, personally, 'need' to see how the Skywalker saga ends. I can't/won't abstain. I simply have caution and middling expectations.

I think you grossly misjudge your opinion as fact.  Here is my 'opinion'.  Let's go through it. 

"People are probably still speaking with their wallets after TLJ as they did with Solo."

I think you grossly misjudge your opinion as fact.  Here is my 'response'.    TLJ did not have as great as an impact on the box office for Solo as you want to believe.  People voted with their wallets not based on how a vocal group felt about TLJ but because Harrison Ford was not playing Han Solo.   There are instances where actors become bigger than the movie they are in and actually become the movie.  Why did a Kristin Wiig Ghostbusters fail?  It did not fail because they rebooted it with women.  It failed because Bill Murray is not playing a Ghostbuster.  When you think of the Ghostbusters, you think of Bill Murray.  When you think of Han Solo you think of Harrison Ford and no one can replace that.   People did not want to see Solo because Ford was not in it as Solo.   Watch what happens if they try and recast Indiana Jones while Ford is still alive.  You will have the same issue and it is NOT because of KOTCS.

"Look at it from the perspective of the people who think it's an abomination."

I have.  However, whenever I view a person's thoughts I like to see motivation.  There are many out there that criticize TLJ that are also criticizing Captain Marvel, loosely throwing about the term SJW, and cannot deal with things that may strike too close to being outside their personal comfort zone.  I look at the language that they use to see if it is objective or tainted by their emotion in regards to it being too outside their personal comfort zone.   You use the word 'abomination'.  The last thing I would call TLJ is an abomination.  

"The fact that I could get opening weekend tickets (at 2 of the highest-profile theaters) more than a week after they went on sale is a big red flag to me."

Now I am being serious here because I do not know where you live or what you are used to.  Even here in the NYC / Long Island area it was very possible to get tickets for opening weekend well after a week after the tickets went on sale.  Avengers Endgame went on sale and the internet went into a frenzy locking down opening DAY.  However, friends of mine waited more than a week and still scored tickets for that opening weekend at a theater near them.   They wanted to go with their kids.  I fail to see why that raises a flag.   Seriously.   But, like I said, I do not know how many theaters you have in your area.  We have a lot around here. 

"I understand that you like the movie. Many - very many - do not."

There are many that enjoyed it immensely.  I will say though that people who have a negative experience are always far more vocal than those that have a positive experience.  Want proof?  Go back to the main forum of Comics General.  Please let me know where I can find all the threads that detail all of the positive interactions and transactions that they have had over eBay  

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On 10/31/2019 at 8:13 PM, comics4all said:

Hey It's cool. I respect your opinion.

If we all liked the same thing the world would be a boring place.

Most movies I wouldn't even comment on because everything has flaws, but from the "prank call to Hux", the really slow space race to see who runs outta gas first, Jake Skywalker the coward /pessimist drinking space milk from his Hydroflask, Leia Poppins, separating Rey, Poe, & Finn from doing anything cool together, Crybay Ren's high waisted pants facetime calls, Jake Skywalker(a symbol of hope, who redeemed Darth Vader of all people because Luke believed in the good of people) wanted to murder his only nephew in cold blood before even talking to Han & Leia about it, Yoda who hates the jedi archives & talks down to luke like he is still a NOOB JEDI, THE CASINO SCENE, Snoke dying before we find out 1 thing about him, Rey's parents are losers, No actual lightsaber on lightsaber fight in the whole movie. Jake Skywalker & his space stroke, This movie just has too many terrible things! 

I actually like Rey, Poe, Finn, Rose but these movies did nothing to flesh out their characters. We know very little about them & they barely had time to bond together the way the OT crew bonded or the way Anakin, Obi Wan, Ahsoka etc did thru the Clone Wars.

Anyway I'm gonna go eat some Halloween candy after that rant!!! lol

 

I actually enjoyed how Luke was a broken hero.  He was a man who had lost his faith.  It happens.  No matter his past accomplishments I did not want to see Luke just emerge from exile and save the day and was pleasantly surprised to see the 'hero' lose faith and have to learn what it is all about again that makes him who he is.  Luke became a broken man.  When I raised that point to a friend he said that Obi Wan never lost his way.  That was a good point.  To counter, I suggested that when comparing fictional characters:

  • Obi Wan never faced the burden that Luke did. 
  • Obi Wan received proper training that Luke never did.

 

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On 11/1/2019 at 11:16 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I don't think they did, however, he's a freaking space wizard who murdered a bunch of children being taught by their brother.

In case you forgot, Leia charged Han with 'bringing their son back', and he tried. Ben murdered his own father. He considered murdering his own mother. By those actions, I think it's reasonable to suggest that they gave it their all before 'seeing the Vader in him'.

This isn't supposed to be a continuation of the OT character's story - they're supposed to usher in the new ones. Focusing on the OGs' stories doesn't make much sense. It's about Ben and Rey. Since Snoke was killed off, JJ had to dumpster dive for the Emperor. I take it he had a plan for a very powerful Sith character and RJ ruined that.

The first part is a good point.

However, killing Snoke made no difference to me than killing Dooku in the opening moments of RotS. The only difference the audience was the audience had the benefit of already knowing that Palpatine was the main baddie to begin with.  For all we know JJ might have wanted Snoke to be a disposable villain to begin with.  When TLJ came out and they introduced Snoke it was assumed that he was a disciple of Palpatine in some fashion.  If that is true then his character does not really matter whether he is dead or alive, because JJ had Palpatine pulling the strings from the beginning even in death.   I am sure given McDiarmid's involvement in Star Wars over the years, from Angry Birds to Rebels that it was an easy call to make to get him involved again.  I mean, look at Ewan McGregor.  He just revealed that he knew he was coming back as Obi Wan for Disney+ or in the movies since he came back to record some lines for JJ in TLJ.  I am assuming here that Ian McDiarmid was also told five years ago, 'Get ready."
 

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On that note... it is going to be a busy week.  So if I do not response in a timely fashion to anyone it is not because I am abandoning the response but I want to take the time to write a proper response. 

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5 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

I think you grossly misjudge your opinion as fact.  Here is my 'opinion'.  Let's go through it. 

"People are probably still speaking with their wallets after TLJ as they did with Solo."

TLJ did not have as great as an impact on the box office for Solo as you want to believe.  People voted with their wallets not based on how a vocal group felt about TLJ but because Harrison Ford was not playing Han Solo.   There are instances where actors become bigger than the movie they are in and actually become the movie.  Why did a Kristin Wiig Ghostbusters fail?  It did not fail because they rebooted it with women.  It failed because Bill Murray is not playing a Ghostbuster.  When you think of the Ghostbusters, you think of Bill Murray.  When you think of Han Solo you think of Harrison Ford and no one can replace that.   People did not want to see Solo because Ford was not in it as Solo.   Watch what happens if they try and recast Indiana Jones while Ford is still alive.  You will have the same issue and it is NOT because of KOTCS.

"Look at it from the perspective of the people who think it's an abomination."

I have.  However, whenever I view a person's thoughts I like to see motivation.  There are many out there that criticize TLJ that are also criticizing Captain Marvel, loosely throwing about the term SJW, and cannot deal with things that may strike too close to being outside their personal comfort zone.  I look at the language that they use to see if it is objective or tainted by their emotion in regards to it being too outside their personal comfort zone.   You use the word 'abomination'.  The last thing I would call TLJ is an abomination.  

"The fact that I could get opening weekend tickets (at 2 of the highest-profile theaters) more than a week after they went on sale is a big red flag to me."

Now I am being serious here because I do not know where you live or what you are used to.  Even here in the NYC / Long Island area it was very possible to get tickets for opening weekend well after a week after the tickets went on sale.  Avengers Endgame went on sale and the internet went into a frenzy locking down opening DAY.  However, friends of mine waited more than a week and still scored tickets for that opening weekend at a theater near them.   They wanted to go with their kids.  I fail to see why that raises a flag.   Seriously.   But, like I said, I do not know how many theaters you have in your area.  We have a lot around here. 

"I understand that you like the movie. Many - very many - do not."

There are many that enjoyed it immensely.  I will say though that people who have a negative experience are always far more vocal than those that have a positive experience.  Want proof?  Go back to the main forum of Comics General.  Please let me know where I can find all the threads that detail all of the positive interactions and transactions that they have had over eBay  

You think people didn't see Solo because Ford didn't star in it? I haven't heard that from a single person before right now. All I heard was - "I'm not paying to see another Star Wars movie after TLJ" and "dead character - who cares?"

I think expecting escapism from the SJW/PC concepts of the real world is fair from moviegoers. I don't think it has anything to do with "comfort" for most people. I, personally, dislike Captain Marvel because it's a mediocre film. I actually feared that it would pander too much to real-world politics (because of the trailers). It thankfully didn't (too much). The Last Jedi does things that don't make contextual sense. The reason? Well, if I go on I'll get some warning points, so let's just leave it at that. My, and most/all people I know, are only motivated to criticize TLJ for how bad it is as a Star Wars movie. I've heard it's allegedly a "good movie" if you don't consider its existence within the franchise. Outside of that, other connotations simply add more :censored: to the pile. The lack of escapism is tertiary in nature to how bad the characters and story are.

Your final point is exactly right. There are usually fanboys and fangirls in droves who speak up for their fandom, though. CM itself, as a new character within a franchise, receives more defense than TLJ (based on most populated social media and articles). I think that also says something as a storied franchise vs a new character.

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5 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

The first part is a good point.

However, killing Snoke made no difference to me than killing Dooku in the opening moments of RotS. The only difference the audience was the audience had the benefit of already knowing that Palpatine was the main baddie to begin with.  For all we know JJ might have wanted Snoke to be a disposable villain to begin with.  When TLJ came out and they introduced Snoke it was assumed that he was a disciple of Palpatine in some fashion.  If that is true then his character does not really matter whether he is dead or alive, because JJ had Palpatine pulling the strings from the beginning even in death.   I am sure given McDiarmid's involvement in Star Wars over the years, from Angry Birds to Rebels that it was an easy call to make to get him involved again.  I mean, look at Ewan McGregor.  He just revealed that he knew he was coming back as Obi Wan for Disney+ or in the movies since he came back to record some lines for JJ in TLJ.  I am assuming here that Ian McDiarmid was also told five years ago, 'Get ready."

Snoke is an... Interesting... Situation. He's displayed to be so powerful, but is so easily dispatched. Kylo Ren is also displayed as incredibly powerful, though. I simply thought that the lack of exploration in Snoke's character/interaction, along with his untimely death (and IMO stupid method in which he was killed) did the character no good service. There were better ways to end the character before the movie was over.

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On 11/1/2019 at 4:40 PM, mattn792 said:

I don't think anyone is, or can ever be, worse than Jar Jar.  Not Rose.  Not Hayden Vader.  Not Vice Admiral Lauren Dern.  Not those stupid bug eyed hamster looking things thrown into TLJ.  

Jar Jar is his own level of bad.

Rose is the Jar-Jar of 7-9.

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I have only seen TLJ the one time, but Rose was no problem for me, I enjoyed the character for the most part. Poe, on the other hand was a very one dimensional, idiotic/annoying character - 'look at me, I'm Poe Dameron, all I do is shout intensely, ignore orders and commit mutiny at the drop of a hat, follow me, I'm awesome!' If Johnson really wanted to subvert expectations he would of had Poe arrested for treason and that would have been the end of him for the trilogy. If Disney had any sense at all they would have handed the new trilogy over to Monty Python so they could have squished him with a big foot. Who knows, maybe that's how they get Palpatine in the next movie.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Mr Sneeze said:

I have only seen TLJ the one time, but Rose was no problem for me, I enjoyed the character for the most part. Poe, on the other hand was a very one dimensional, idiotic/annoying character - 'look at me, I'm Poe Dameron, all I do is shout intensely, ignore orders and commit mutiny at the drop of a hat, follow me, I'm awesome!' If Johnson really wanted to subvert expectations he would of had Poe arrested for treason and that would have been the end of him for the trilogy. If Disney had any sense at all they would have handed the new trilogy over to Monty Python so they could have squished him with a big foot. Who knows, maybe that's how they get Palpatine in the next movie.

Don't you think that Poe had legitimate motivation for mutiny, though? Poe is kinda the embodiment of rebellion, I think. He doesn't follow orders blindly like most storm troopers. Poe is also a high-rank officer, isn't he (not entirely sure about that)? His entire 'development' is predicated on awful storytelling. I personally think his overall character fits within the rebellion. 2c

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