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Incredible Hulk #181 - is it *that* red-hot?
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1,931 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Mile High II is not recognized by CGC as a pedigree.  It's not on the list of pedigrees on the CGC home page 'pedigree' link.  It shouldn't be, since it was a warehouse find of pallets of books that never made their way to the news stand.

Interesting, but why would they put it on the label then?

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It doesn't meet the first criterion that CGC demands of a pedigree, and that the hobby considered an essential criterion even before CGC existed:

The collection must be original owner. This means that the books must have been bought off the newsstand as they came out.

 

Edited by namisgr
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5 minutes ago, namisgr said:

It doesn't meet the first criterion that CGC demands of a pedigree, and that the hobby considered an essential criterion even before CGC existed:

The collection must be original owner. This means that the books must have been bought off the newsstand as they came out.

 

So did Chuck originally dupe CGC into thinking it was OO ?

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3 minutes ago, kimik said:

So.....if the books were never circulated wouldn't the OO just be whichever mobster sold the warehouse full of them to Chuck?

"Boy howdy, it's a harrowing tale!"

 

One deserving of its own code word - RACKETEERING!

 

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What did that recent 7.0 sell for?

In the listings of most recent it says $2,000 on the app

But when you click it, it says a bid of $600...

Must be a glitch, either that or it was an auction with a best offer and bid was $600, but someone did a best offer for $2000. Weird. Someone got a heck of a deal!

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On 1/15/2019 at 2:51 PM, kimik said:
On 1/15/2019 at 2:50 PM, Spiderturtle said:

there's a couple of other bronze marvel books that is off your list :wishluck:

There is a reason I left them off.......... I am still accumulating copies.  (thumbsu

Would you be referring to former hot BA books from decades past like Avengers 93, ASM 121 &122 which definitely seems to have fallen off collector's radar over the past few decades?  hm

Edited by lou_fine
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33 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Would you be referring to former hot BA books from decades past like Avengers 93, ASM 121 &122 which definitely seems to have fallen off collector's radar over the past few decades?  hm

I really doubt that's the books he's thinking of 

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On 1/16/2019 at 10:55 AM, mattn792 said:
On 1/16/2019 at 10:54 AM, MGsimba77 said:

Yeah that & the marvel banner seems a bit misaligned. It's a tad lower on the right side. There's also some translucency on the white hulk logo & the back cover but it's likely from the old holder. I'd doubt the wear on that corner could be dealt with in pressing. Not a 9.9 candidate. Likely getting a premium for the CVA

Hard to believe there is that many suckers out there.  I've always said CVA is a joke, and based on some recent examples posted around the boards, it seems like they'll sticker anything.

It's actually hard to believe you would think this in today's CGC generation of collectors and speculators. 

Especially when there are collectors/investors who would pay multiples more for an inferior looking CGC 9.8 highest graded copy of a book as opposed to paying far less for a clearly superior presenting copy of a CGC 9.6 graded copy of the exact same book.  :screwy:

I assume you would then consider collectors who chase after highest graded copies of books, irregardless of their visual appearance, to also be a bit of a sucker?  hm

 

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9 minutes ago, Spiderturtle said:
43 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Would you be referring to former hot BA books from decades past like Avengers 93, ASM 121 &122 which definitely seems to have fallen off collector's radar over the past few decades?  hm

I really doubt that's the books he's thinking of 

I know, but I still remember way back when these 3 were considered to be the absolute go to Marvel BA books to have in your collection.  :gossip:

Interesting how times change and collectors valuations of books also change along with them.  hm

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18 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

It's actually hard to believe you would think this in today's CGC generation of collectors and speculators. 

Especially when there are collectors/investors who would pay multiples more for an inferior looking CGC 9.8 highest graded copy of a book as opposed to paying far less for a clearly superior presenting copy of a CGC 9.6 graded copy of the exact same book.  :screwy:

I assume you would then consider collectors who chase after highest graded copies of books, irregardless of their visual appearance, to also be a bit of a sucker?  hm

 

Haha, that's a good point.

To your question, when we're talking about graded books in a vacuum, I take a "to each their own" stance.  If you want to chase 10.0s at any cost, get signatures, buy only date stamped covers, low grade copies, whatever.  You do you.

Its when CVA gets introduced into the equation that I get wired for sound, largely because in my opinion they're a total scam and shouldn't even exist.  Every comic collector already has their own built in CVA (i.e. their eyes) which they should be using to judge a potential purchase.  There's zero reason to pay up for a certain book just because it has an extra sticker on it that would probably turn up on a bowl of chili if someone were to submit one to CVA.

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20 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

ts when CVA gets introduced into the equation that I get wired for sound, largely because in my opinion they're a total scam and shouldn't even exist.  Every comic collector already has their own built in CVA (i.e. their eyes) which they should be using to judge a potential purchase.  There's zero reason to pay up for a certain book just because it has an extra sticker on it that would probably turn up on a bowl of chili if someone were to submit one to CVA.

I think the only person that actually pays for a CVA sticker is the sumittor who sent the book in for verification.  

I don't believe that most potential bidders will bid a higher amount just because a book happens to have a CVA sticker attached to it.  At least, I certainly don't when it comes to bidding.  But then again, that's just me.  (shrug)

What I find that most members who complain about CVA don't seem to understand is that they assume all books with a CVA sticker must look exceptional.  As far as I know, I believe they are superior presenting copies RELATIVE TO THEIR ASSIGNED GRADE.  Yes, everybody can use their own eyes to look for exceptional copies, but I assume the rationale for CVA is that collectors might not necessarily know what a 4.0 graded book or a 6.0 graded book should look like from an visual point of view.  In this particular casethen, the CVA sticker just might add a bit of value to potential bidders who are not fully conversant with the look of books across the entire grading condition spectrum. hm

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20 hours ago, namisgr said:

Mile High II is not recognized by CGC as a pedigree.  It's not on the list of pedigrees on the CGC home page 'pedigree' link.  It shouldn't be, since it was a warehouse find of pallets of books that never made their way to the news stand.

If this is the case, then how about the Poughkeepsie and Dell File Copy books as I believe these are clearly designated on the CGC labels where the pedigree notation usually goes?  Since these were file copies per se, I don't believe they ever hit the newsstands.  hm

Or has this now changed since I also don't see it as part of CGC's current Pedigree List on their website?  ???

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28 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I think the only person that actually pays for a CVA sticker is the sumittor who sent the book in for verification.  

I don't believe that most potential bidders will bid a higher amount just because a book happens to have a CVA sticker attached to it.  At least, I certainly don't when it comes to bidding.  But then again, that's just me.  (shrug)

What I find that most members who complain about CVA don't seem to understand is that they assume all books with a CVA sticker must look exceptional.  As far as I know, I believe they are superior presenting copies RELATIVE TO THEIR ASSIGNED GRADE.  Yes, everybody can use their own eyes to look for exceptional copies, but I assume the rationale for CVA is that collectors might not necessarily know what a 4.0 graded book or a 6.0 graded book should look like from an visual point of view.  In this particular casethen, the CVA sticker just might add a bit of value to potential bidders who are not fully conversant with the look of books across the entire grading condition spectrum. hm

It would add value if it would distinguish that the reds, whites or whatever color on the book are actually bright and vibrant instead of being bright and vibrant due to photoshop manipulation.  Some books I get and i'm happily surprised because it was scanned poorly.  Others I've gotten and I have been disappointed due to photoshop manipulation

Edited by Spiderturtle
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56 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I think the only person that actually pays for a CVA sticker is the sumittor who sent the book in for verification.  

I don't believe that most potential bidders will bid a higher amount just because a book happens to have a CVA sticker attached to it.  At least, I certainly don't when it comes to bidding.  But then again, that's just me.  (shrug)

What I find that most members who complain about CVA don't seem to understand is that they assume all books with a CVA sticker must look exceptional.  As far as I know, I believe they are superior presenting copies RELATIVE TO THEIR ASSIGNED GRADE.  Yes, everybody can use their own eyes to look for exceptional copies, but I assume the rationale for CVA is that collectors might not necessarily know what a 4.0 graded book or a 6.0 graded book should look like from an visual point of view.  In this particular casethen, the CVA sticker just might add a bit of value to potential bidders who are not fully conversant with the look of books across the entire grading condition spectrum. hm

I think "that's just me" is what it comes down to.  I'm with you in that I wouldn't bid a penny extra for a CVA sticker, but like you highlighted, how many inexperienced potential bidders might do that?  Maybe I'm just bitter that the CVA people are running a what I see as useless enterprise from their kitchen table and apparently keep getting clientele. 

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1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

If this is the case, then how about the Poughkeepsie and Dell File Copy books as I believe these are clearly designated on the CGC labels where the pedigree notation usually goes?  Since these were file copies per se, I don't believe they ever hit the newsstands.  hm

Or has this now changed since I also don't see it as part of CGC's current Pedigree List on their website?  ???

You'd have to ask CGC, of course, but I'd speculate they finally got around to distinguishing file copies and warehouse finds that were never circulated and so aren't part of any original owner pedigree from the true pedigrees.

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