Incredible Hulk #181 - is it *that* red-hot? 17 17

[KCOComics]

On 2/21/2021 at 1:23 AM, Callaway29 said:

What goes up, does not always go up.

I appreciate enthusiasm, but I also appreciate tempered expectations...

Everyone should heed this advice all over the hobby right now. 

We are in an extraordinary bubble right now. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here. 

 

[MisterX]

Gary Dolgoff Comics just sold a 9.0 OW/W for $8200 last night!

Incredible Hulk 181 (CGC 9.0) OW/W pages; 1st full app. Wolverine; 1974 (j#4434) | eBay

This is crazy. Who's buying these books at such high prices??

 

[Randall Ries]

5 minutes ago, MisterX said:

Gary Dolgoff Comics just sold a 9.0 OW/W for $8200 last night!

Incredible Hulk 181 (CGC 9.0) OW/W pages; 1st full app. Wolverine; 1974 (j#4434) | eBay

This is crazy. Who's buying these books at such high prices??

 

It doesn't seem to be just this book. Looks like "values" are up for just about everything right now. Hmm. The only way we will see prices fall at this point is if I try to sell some of my books.

"Why, yes! I sold my 7.0 copy of All Star Comics #7 1st Superman-Batman meeting for $100! The market 'corrected' itself." See. It only does that when I try to sell. Soon's I stop, it'll inflate again.

[BrntWS6]

I distinctly remember this because I always kick myself for not buying it.  But in 1991 there was a hulk 181 on the shelf and my comic shop for $50.  It was in good shape, probably in the 9.4 range or higher.   But I could not afford it at 16.  So yeah, they have been expensive for awhile.

[JTD]

1 hour ago, BrntWS6 said:

I distinctly remember this because I always kick myself for not buying it.  But in 1991 there was a hulk 181 on the shelf and my comic shop for $50.  It was in good shape, probably in the 9.4 range or higher.   But I could not afford it at 16.  So yeah, they have been expensive for awhile.

I bought mine in 1985 at Lone Star comics in Arlington,Tx...paid $32 for it and had to think about it...a lot of money for a 16 year old...

[BrntWS6]

1 hour ago, JTD said:

I bought mine in 1985 at Lone Star comics in Arlington,Tx...paid $32 for it and had to think about it...a lot of money for a 16 year old...

It sure is....my job paid $3.25/hr then....lol.

[KCOComics]

I bought mine at a NYC convention in 1999 or so for $260. 

 

[LDarkseid1]

17 hours ago, KCOComics said:

Everyone should heed this advice all over the hobby right now. 

We are in an extraordinary bubble right now. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here. 

 

Ehhh I don’t know man. I’ve heard the bubble talk going on 10 years now. I mean literally year after year, we’re in a bubble lol. I get prices are spiking like insanity, but I just think this mysterious bubble is more people wanting to believe it has to exist, because how could stuff go up this much. I think collectors, investors and people in general have simply discovered how special comics are to pop culture and they sell strong. So my feelings are the market will stay strong, I mean maybe a price correction. I know that’s happened on some books, but even then they’ve recovered and gone back up. I guess only time will tell.

[KCOComics]

45 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

Ehhh I don’t know man. I’ve heard the bubble talk going on 10 years now. I mean literally year after year, we’re in a bubble lol. I get prices are spiking like insanity, but I just think this mysterious bubble is more people wanting to believe it has to exist, because how could stuff go up this much. I think collectors, investors and people in general have simply discovered how special comics are to pop culture and they sell strong. So my feelings are the market will stay strong, I mean maybe a price correction. I know that’s happened on some books, but even then they’ve recovered and gone back up. I guess only time will tell.

Yeah, I'm all over the place on this.  I probably contradict myself from hour to hour on these boards. 

This is the craziest time I've ever seen as a comic collector. It's not just how high certain books are going, it's the universal rise of Marvel "keys".  

So this is my official position as of 11:20 am on a Monday. 

The current market is unsustainable. Meaning, as vaccines are administered and life starts to look a little more "normal", the prices will slow.  I'm not sure if that means they'll fall, correct, crash, but I know it won't be what we are seeing today. 

These prices may be the new norm. And I wouldn't be surprised if they level off and return to a more normal market with gradual climbs. I also wouldn't be shocked to see a pretty big correction, before the is a gradual return to normalcy. 

That said, I'm not afraid for the long term health of the hobby. If you "over pay" today, eventually today's prices will look like a bargain.  It's just a matter of how long that eventually is. 

And again, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm just trying to keep up with the nightly record prices. 

[LDarkseid1]

39 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

Yeah, I'm all over the place on this.  I probably contradict myself from hour to hour on these boards. 

This is the craziest time I've ever seen as a comic collector. It's not just how high certain books are going, it's the universal rise of Marvel "keys".  

So this is my official position as of 11:20 am on a Monday. 

The current market is unsustainable. Meaning, as vaccines are administered and life starts to look a little more "normal", the prices will slow.  I'm not sure if that means they'll fall, correct, crash, but I know it won't be what we are seeing today. 

These prices may be the new norm. And I wouldn't be surprised if they level off and return to a more normal market with gradual climbs. I also wouldn't be shocked to see a pretty big correction, before the is a gradual return to normalcy. 

That said, I'm not afraid for the long term health of the hobby. If you "over pay" today, eventually today's prices will look like a bargain.  It's just a matter of how long that eventually is. 

And again, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm just trying to keep up with the nightly record prices. 

All definitely possible scenarios. Will just have to wait and see what impact life going back to normal truly has, in the next 6-12 months. Well as close to normal as it gets.

[Poekaymon]

53 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

 I probably contradict myself from hour to hour on these boards. 

 

So this is my official position as of 11:20 am on a Monday. I'm not sure if that means they'll fall, correct, crash, but I know it won't be what we are seeing today. 

 

That said, I'm not afraid for the long term health of the hobby. If you "over pay" today, eventually today's prices will look like a bargain. 

You actually contradicted yourself within the same post.    

But I don't even disagree.  It's just not enough to just keep predicting that things will go down--timing is everything.  Fluctuations happen, and in the short-term, this may very well be a peak.  But comics (at least, older keys--modern variants and such I won't attempt to speak for) much like the stock market have never had a crash that they didn't ultimately recover from to continue to new heights.  It has literally never happened. 

As an illustration, approximately Giant Size X-Men #1 8.5 was 1 year ago $2500, 2 months ago $3500, 1 week ago $4750, and today, Monday, February 22nd at 11:20am, is $6500.  You might be right that it's going to go back to $2500.  But it could just as easily go to $10000 first.  And even if it does "fall, correct, crash," the historical data suggest that it will eventually be higher than your all-time high of $6500 on Monday Feb 22 at 11:20am.  Similarly, if you invested at the height of the dot com bubble in 2000 and just before the financial crash in 2008, so, in other words, the worst possible times to invest in the last 20 years, you're still well in the money today.  So, yes, I agree with your final point.  

[lou_fine]

54 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

As an illustration, approximately Giant Size X-Men #1 8.5 was 1 year ago $2500, 2 months ago $3500, 1 week ago $4750, and today, Monday, February 22nd at 11:20am, is $6500.  You might be right that it's going to go back to $2500.  But it could just as easily go to $10000 first.  And even if it does "fall, correct, crash," the historical data suggest that it will eventually be higher than your all-time high of $6500 on Monday Feb 22 at 11:20am.  Similarly, if you invested at the height of the dot com bubble in 2000 and just before the financial crash in 2008, so, in other words, the worst possible times to invest in the last 20 years, you're still well in the money today.  So, yes, I agree with your final point. 

With these kinds of wild price swings here, are we talking about comic books or Bitcoin?     

Edited February 23, 2021 by lou_fine

[KCOComics]

8 hours ago, Poekaymon said:

You actually contradicted yourself within the same post.    

But I don't even disagree.  It's just not enough to just keep predicting that things will go down--timing is everything.  Fluctuations happen, and in the short-term, this may very well be a peak.  But comics (at least, older keys--modern variants and such I won't attempt to speak for) much like the stock market have never had a crash that they didn't ultimately recover from to continue to new heights.  It has literally never happened. 

As an illustration, approximately Giant Size X-Men #1 8.5 was 1 year ago $2500, 2 months ago $3500, 1 week ago $4750, and today, Monday, February 22nd at 11:20am, is $6500.  You might be right that it's going to go back to $2500.  But it could just as easily go to $10000 first.  And even if it does "fall, correct, crash," the historical data suggest that it will eventually be higher than your all-time high of $6500 on Monday Feb 22 at 11:20am.  Similarly, if you invested at the height of the dot com bubble in 2000 and just before the financial crash in 2008, so, in other words, the worst possible times to invest in the last 20 years, you're still well in the money today.  So, yes, I agree with your final point.  

There was a time when all the GA guys looked at SA marvel and said things like "sure spiderman is great, but AF15 can't sustain these prices because there are so many of them" 

And I didn't really appreciate their perspective. I thought they were out of touch. But now, in my late 30s, as I watch books I once bought for a few hundred dollars sell for 5 figures, I kind of get where they are coming from.  How can books you've owned a half dozen copies of and seen at every show and shop for decades suddenly be worth $5k? 

I don't think you are wrong. I think history has shown the demand is there. It's just really strange to see. GSX1 never interested me.  I owned a few copies, traded them away. It was just kind of a cool book. Not a 4 figure must own mega key. 

Even DD1 and X1 are kind of the same.  They were more important to me because they were keys I could actually afford in my younger years, but no one was thinking a 5.0 copy of DD1 would be a $7k book any time soon. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

6 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

There was a time when all the GA guys looked at SA marvel and said things like "sure spiderman is great, but AF15 can't sustain these prices because there are so many of them" 

And I didn't really appreciate their perspective. I thought they were out of touch. But now, in my late 30s, as I watch books I once bought for a few hundred dollars sell for 5 figures, I kind of get where they are coming from.  How can books you've owned a half dozen copies of and seen at every show and shop for decades suddenly be worth $5k? 

I don't think you are wrong. I think history has shown the demand is there. It's just really strange to see. GSX1 never interested me.  I owned a few copies, traded them away. It was just kind of a cool book. Not a 4 figure must own mega key. 

Even DD1 and X1 are kind of the same.  They were more important to me because they were keys I could actually afford in my younger years, but no one was thinking a 5.0 copy of DD1 would be a $7k book any time soon. 

this^ I most identify with and feel the same, but

to see that golden age still goes for strong $$ is a good sign, because "my" next thought was, people were just moving on from gold/silver/bronze etc to 

while yes for a short time "more affordable" copper and modern  but that is NOT TRUE

to see golden still going strong, even though it is the age that I'm most disconnected too, if that makes sense?

I didn't grow up hearing about the "greats" of the golden nor atomic age, had they been a little more affordable when I reentered I might have sought them out to learn, but since I didn't have any real emotional attachment etc I didn't engage in it .....

that said, with silver you have big names like spider-man, thor, hulk etc..... so I don't see those loosing steem

but in 20 years if we have a named age like chromium or something of an age inbetween modern and copper, idk.....

I'm still just hoping the "next generation" isn't just moving on, we hear it all the time, "they're just moving on to the next hot thing?" 

Hopefully that doesn't hold as true as some preach  

[LDarkseid1]

9 hours ago, lou_fine said:

With these kinds of wild price swings here, are we talking about comic books or Bitcoin?     

I bought some litecoin once, luckily sold it shortly before it tanked haha. Bitcoin and I assume some other crypto currencies are just nutty right now. I'm not jumping a board that wild gravy train yet though. I'm happy a lot of people have made an insane amount of money, but no thanks for me lol.

[Poekaymon]

3 hours ago, KCOComics said:

I kind of get where they are coming from.  How can books you've owned a half dozen copies of and seen at every show and shop for decades suddenly be worth $5k?

How can books that were $5 back in the day now be $5,000?  Because that's just how it is.  As just three of many examples:

I'm from a poor part of LA.  My childhood friend lived in a real dingy blight of a house, on a dingy blight of a street.  I recently looked it up on Zillow and it was worth 1.5 million.  How can someone be paying $1,500,000 for a house which was barely worth $100k back in the day??

Apple and Amazon have increased something like 100,000% since 2000.  How can someone pay $1,000,000 for a portion of Apple or Amazon that was barely worth $1,000 back in the day??

And someone above mentioned Bitcoin.  You know, Bitcoin used to be actually worthless.  I won some Bitcoin in a gaming tournament in 2010.  It was a meme prize.  It'd now be worth like $200,000.  How can someone pay $200,000 for Bitcoins which were literally worthless 10 years ago??

Sometimes it be like that.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Poekaymon

[Roger66]

6 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

How can books that were $5 back in the day now be $5,000?  Because that's just how it is.  As just three of many examples:

I'm from a poor part of LA.  My childhood friend lived in a real dingy blight of a house, on a dingy blight of a street.  I recently looked it up on Zillow and it was worth 1.5 million.  How can someone be paying $1,500,000 for a house which was barely worth $100k back in the day??

Apple and Amazon have increased something like 100,000% since 2000.  How can someone pay $1,000,000 for a portion of Apple or Amazon that was barely worth $1,000 back in the day??

And someone above mentioned Bitcoin.  You know, Bitcoin used to be actually worthless.  I won some Bitcoin in a gaming tournament in 2010.  It was a meme prize.  It'd now be worth like $200,000.  How can someone pay $200,000 for Bitcoins which were literally worthless 10 years ago??

Sometimes it be like that.

“There are no facts, only interpretations.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche 

[Kevin76]

There is no more ceiling on comic books of any era now, demand is intense and the movies/tv shows/investors/fanboys are pushing these prices through the roof. There are 2076 of Lebron James 2003 Topps Chrome rookie cards in PSA 10.  What do we think when there are 300 NM 98's in 9.8?  Oh that's too common!  BTW, Last Lebron James Topps Chrome PSA 10 rookie went for $43,201.00 on Feb 8th.   Imagine if sport card investors made their way to comics?  

Edited February 23, 2021 by Kevin76

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, Kevin76 said:

 Imagine if sport card investors made their way to comics?  

All I remember is the big huge sports card crash of the early 90's just before we had the big comic book crash a couple years later after that.  

[I am not Glenda]

23 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

All I remember is the big huge sports card crash of the early 90's just before we had the big comic book crash a couple years later after that.  

Many seasoned collectors remember the 1990s comic crash so it's only natural to get the same vibe with the INSANE price increases across the board, However, this 2021 market is not that market, My instincts/gut thinks we land someplace in the middle when this all slows down a bit ( ie a pre Covid  book was 1k and is now 4k levels off at 2k with some books becoming very big winners and some very big losers along the way) OR maybe this is just an over due correction based on how big the internet has impacted the WORLD collectors market? I wonder if I am right to assume if there is another $1400 stimulus check there is still more insanity to come?......................................Miles Variant 30k anyone? 

Edited February 23, 2021 by I am not Glenda