Incredible Hulk #181 - is it *that* red-hot? 17 17

[MGsimba77]

On 9/29/2018 at 3:36 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm a little disappointed in the latest sales. Not so much the 3.0, more that 4.5... 

Don't be disappointed

5380 total for this 8.5 yesterday

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-HULK-181-CGC-VF-NM-8-5-1st-Wolverine-Appearance-o-white-pages-/173554628291

[MGsimba77]

Just an update

9.4 white for 9500 two days ago https://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-Marvel-1974-1st-Full-Wolverine-Wendigo-App-/192690808989

There was another 9.4 sold on Comic connect for 9,999 on September 5th that was just included in GPA. I'll try to find a link

[lowgradecomics]

9 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

Just an update

9.4 white for 9500 two days ago https://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-Marvel-1974-1st-Full-Wolverine-Wendigo-App-/192690808989

There was another 9.4 sold on Comic connect for 9,999 on September 5th that was just included in GPA. I'll try to find a link

I'm skeptical on that latest $9500 sale... was a BIN with like 2 minutes left on the timer when it was bought... but will wait and see if it's relisted before jumping to conclusions... Just.. skeptical, ebay does that to me 

[I am not Glenda]

Just went through most the posts & comments on Hulk 181 and after collecting comics for 30 yrs it never changes, there are just those guys who can't see it. These guys.......................  just you wait this book will go down, the market will correct itself, there are too many of them on and on it go's. Happened with Action, Tec, AF15  & many more. No vision, no concept that this is no longer a small hobby but a worldwide & expanding market that is driven by not only fans or character demand but by massive corporations, and very wealthy investors, who do you think is buying those multi-million dollar books? I am lucky enough to own an AF # 15 (7.5)  not because I am wealthy by any means but because I like so many older collectors bought it when the book was affordable( 1987 $1500 and my entire income tax) but the AF 15 boat has sailed and collectors/investors ( which like it or not most of you are) are looking to put their cash into a good solid investment. So straight up let talk about 181, the book is over 40 yrs old and primed for a price surge, 181 It is among one of the most recognized covers in our hobby. It features the first full appearance of arguably the most important and popular character in the Marvel universe since SM and certainly of the bronze age. The cover art is spectacular & features stunning colors that are among the best of any key from any era.  So yes there are 10k of them or more and no the 1.0s are not going to increase like the 9.4,9.6 or 9.8 but take this to the bank from an old comic guy, buy the best damn copy you can afford now, because in the not to distant future that price is going to seem like one hell of a good deal. PS on a side note if the bottom falls out on 181 the entire hobby must be in trouble.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Frank Mozz

[ADAMANTIUM]

@Frank Mozz so true...

I wonder how much will happen in our lifetime. It would be nice also to have a pulse on the market, specifically readers, to know who is most popular around these days. With the exception of thanos or moon knight, there may be few breakout stars of the bronze age. One could argue ms marvel or mystique. 

Wolverine is a stand alone character, much like Spider-Man for sure. Little has been made imo of his ongoing series... sure it is copper, but I wonder if it could be made to have as many keys ASM,  that'll be the day

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM

[Lazyboy]

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

this is no longer a small hobby but a worldwide ever-expanding market that is now driven by not only character demand but by massive corporations, and very wealthy investors

When you buy a comic book, all you get is a bunch of inked paper. You don't get any rights to the character or money made through use of the character.

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

I mean who do you think is buying these million dollar books?

Serious collectors with lots and lots of money.

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

 I have AF 15 7.5  not because I am wealthy by any means but because I like many older collectors bought it when the book was affordable to most collectors

Exactly. How many of those collectors would or even could buy their books at current prices?

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

it features the first full appearance of arguably the next most important and popular character in the Marvel universe since SM and certainly of the bronze age.

Yes.

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

The cover art is spectacular

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

 40+ years later it is among one of the most recognized covers in our hobby.

It's recognizable because of the importance of the book, not the merits of the cover itself.

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

So yes there are 10k of them

11k copies that have already made their way to CGC HQ. Many, many more copies that aren't encased in hard plastic.

20 hours ago, Frank Mozz said:

in the not to distant future that price is going to seem like one hell of a good deal. PS if the bottom falls out on 181 the entire hobby must be in trouble.

Any book can sell in the short term for prices that aren't sustainable over a longer term. As a matter of fact, it happens all the time.

[Lazyboy]

20 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Little has been made imo of his ongoing series... sure it is copper, but I wonder if it could be made to have as many keys ASM,  that'll be the day

ASM was one of the building blocks of the Marvel Universe. Wolverine's ongoing title came 25 years later. There's no realistic comparison between the two.

Take it from somebody who recently read the series (through #150) that very little of long-lasting importance happens and nearly all of the featured characters debuted elsewhere.. Even most of the more popular/valuable issues aren't keys.

[ADAMANTIUM]

3 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

20 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Little has been made imo of his ongoing series... sure it is copper, but I wonder if it could be made to have as many keys ASM,  that'll be the day

ASM was one of the building blocks of the Marvel Universe. Wolverine's ongoing title came 25 years later. There's no realistic comparison between the two.

Take it from somebody who recently read the series (through #150) that very little of long-lasting importance happens and nearly all of the featured characters debuted elsewhere.. Even most of the more popular/valuable issues aren't keys.

that was my point...  they made very little of his ongoing series when it was published, I was wondering if there was anyway to correct that, perhaps by making something current of past stories is a thought. But I agree they did very little to help his importance in readable format, with rehash characters and generally not much to speak of. I wonder if that can change?

[ADAMANTIUM]

12 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

19 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

ASM was one of the building blocks of the Marvel Universe. Wolverine's ongoing title came 25 years later. There's no realistic comparison between the two.

Take it from somebody who recently read the series (through #150) that very little of long-lasting importance happens and nearly all of the featured characters debuted elsewhere.. Even most of the more popular/valuable issues aren't keys.

that was my point...  they made very little of his ongoing series when it was published, I was wondering if there was anyway to correct that, perhaps by making something current of past stories is a thought. But I agree they did very little to help his importance in readable format, with rehash characters and generally not much to speak of. I wonder if that can change?

Meaning of what I've read of Wolverine on going, maybe 1-40 in trade paperback, there wasn't enough meat on the bone (without getting too technical). Wolverine is popular, but I was trying to point out that there aren't really any keys in the ongoing series! I was just wondering if that could change now that he is back from the "dead"?

Edited October 24, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM
sentence structure :)

[STORMSHADOW_80]

22 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Meaning of what I've read of Wolverine on going, maybe 1-40 in trade paperback, there wasn't enough meat on the bone (without getting too technical). Wolverine is popular, but I was trying to point out that there aren't really any keys in the ongoing series! I was just wondering if that could change now that he is back from the "dead"?

Retcon Wolverine 80 to actually be X23 in a test tube.... Maybe bring Apocalypse back as the person who gave him hot claws while he was in an alternate dimension serving as death again?

[ADAMANTIUM]

4 minutes ago, STORMSHADOW_80 said:

30 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Meaning of what I've read of Wolverine on going, maybe 1-40 in trade paperback, there wasn't enough meat on the bone (without getting too technical). Wolverine is popular, but I was trying to point out that there aren't really any keys in the ongoing series! I was just wondering if that could change now that he is back from the "dead"?

Retcon Wolverine 80 to actually be X23 in a test tube.... Maybe bring Apocalypse back as the person who gave him hot claws while he was in an alternate dimension serving as death again?

something like that   just perhaps they should try harder ha. Even though it seems they had, with bloodsport or that cooky doppleganger robot wolvie and the girl from another time or space. 

It was just a thought, but the fact that there aren't many ongoing events as a result of an ongoing series baffles me. I just thought that they could take a look at ASM and develop. Surely someone somewhere has that idea, but I'll save it for a future Copper Age Forum Thread  just makes me  

[STORMSHADOW_80]

2 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

something like that   just perhaps they should try harder ha. Even though it seems they had, with bloodsport or that cooky doppleganger robot wolvie and the girl from another time or space. 

It was just a thought, but the fact that there aren't many ongoing events as a result of an ongoing series baffles me. I just thought that they could take a look at ASM and develop. Surely someone somewhere has that idea, but I'll save it for a future Copper Age Forum Thread  just makes me  

We need a Superior Wolverine!

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just now, STORMSHADOW_80 said:

We need a Superior Wolverine!

maybe I was wrong, how wrong to be determined!

[ygogolak]

4 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

 

11k copies that have already made their way to CGC HQ. Many, many more copies that aren't encased in hard plastic.

 

That is how many times 181 has been graded by CGC. That is not how many unique copies have been graded.

[I am not Glenda]

15 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

When you buy a comic book, all you get is a bunch of inked paper. You don't get any rights to the character or money made through use of the character. 

Serious collectors with lots and lots of money.

Exactly. How many of those collectors would or even could buy their books at current prices?

Yes.

It's recognizable because of the importance of the book, not the merits of the cover itself.

11k copies that have already made their way to CGC HQ. Many, many more copies that aren't encased in hard plastic.

Any book can sell in the short term for prices that aren't sustainable over a longer term. As a matter of fact, it happens all the time.

1

1. Wondering when I said you get the rights to the character in my initial post?

2. So your saying the same thing I did?

3.Confirms my point

4. Maybe you don't like the cover? To each his own.

5. yep that's kinda how it goes in with keys.

6. I said 10k you say 11k  its about supply and demand 100%  my personal opinion high-grade example are going no place but up no matter how many are graded...... it's Wolverine bub! 

This is not Walking Dead #1 bro it's a 40 + yr old book featuring the first full appearance of one of Marvels most iconic character.  So let's talk in say 5 yrs and see if  10k for a 9.4/9.6 is a good deal ????

Edited October 25, 2018 by Frank Mozz

[mattn792]

8 hours ago, STORMSHADOW_80 said:

We need a Superior Wolverine!

It needs to be an alliteration, like Wonderful Wolverine, or Whimsical Wolverine.  Perhaps a Wistful Wolverine...

[lowgradecomics]

10 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

that was my point...  they made very little of his ongoing series when it was published, I was wondering if there was anyway to correct that, perhaps by making something current of past stories is a thought. But I agree they did very little to help his importance in readable format, with rehash characters and generally not much to speak of. I wonder if that can change?

The Wolverine series was such a bore, I hate to say it b/c I love the character.. I just don't think he was much of a solo character at that point, just a supporting x-man.. it took the cartoon in the early 90's to make him a 'main stream' badass... GREAT cartoon BTW, drastic improvement to my Saturday mornings! 

[Lazyboy]

7 hours ago, ygogolak said:

12 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

 

11k copies that have already made their way to CGC HQ. Many, many more copies that aren't encased in hard plastic.

 

That is how many times 181 has been graded by CGC. That is not how many unique copies have been graded.

My point was only that there are lots of raw copies out there and your post is just as inaccurate because you didn't account for returned labels that were removed from the census.

[I am not Glenda]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

My point was only that there are lots of raw copies out there and your post is just as inaccurate because you didn't account for returned labels that were removed from the census.

Ok ? I am not accounting for ALL the copies out there. But that only confirms my point about the future value of this book, l look at it this way. FORGET any price increases on #181 over the past year, negate that data and look at the books overall performance and consider that even with 15k or  whatever # of copies are out there ( you pick a # I don't care)  181 still a good investment over the long haul ( in relation to other books of the Bronze age) regardless of what happened over the past year. However, when you take into consideration my points from my initial post the book is a winner imho. Look you think 181 is going to take a hit and someday you're going to get that 9.8 for 3k have at it, but having done this over the past 30 yrs I would not hold my breath which was the focus of my original post again to each his own.

[ygogolak]

8 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

My point was only that there are lots of raw copies out there and your post is just as inaccurate because you didn't account for returned labels that were removed from the census.

LOL, riiiiiigggghhttt.