I bought and sold an Everett Sub-Mariner golden-age splash the same day... 1 1

[SquareChaos]

Just now, Bronty said:

My bad  You did say it was cutthroat shortly after though?    It left the impression you thought it was dishonest .   Perhaps I am mistaken 

Well I don't know if it was dishonest or not - there are no details as to whether or not it was disclosed that the art was picked up that same day or at what price, etc, etc. I wouldn't argue that cutthroat as a term has negative connotations, but I was more using it to be illustrative of the hobby and the type of deals people will drive. Is it the wrong term to use when you sell someone something you've owned for a few hours at a 75% mark up? The dictionary states 'cutthroat' (in this connotation) means "(of a competitive situation or activity) fierce and intense; involving the use of ruthless measures."

I think it fits? "Ruthless" could be said to be negative as well I imagine, but without getting too much in to semantics, you'll just have to take my word for it that I don't view OP negatively as a human being for this singular interaction.

[The Voord]

The Kirby is great but the Subby splash is awesome.  Personally, I'd have kept the Everett.

[romitaman]

Glen's story is correct...I know who the other guy was  at the SD Comic con who wanted the toys for tots piece very badly and he was VERY disappointed he didn't get it. I do think this was after 1997..Somewhere closer to 1999-2000 if my memory is correct as i didn't really know you too well in 97 glen. but the year is a moot point.  I think the Kirby piece was the more valuable piece back then as well as today....but we all love what we love and that's all that matters.

[Bird]

9 hours ago, Bronty said:

My bad  You did say it was cutthroat shortly after though?    It left the impression you thought it was dishonest .   Perhaps I am mistaken 

I thought that it was the juxtaposition of the profit and the word "friend" that he was commenting on. 

[Rick2you2]

It is a pretty cool story, but I don't believe I could do that. The transaction sounds more like "business" than "hobby", and I try not to mix the two. 

As to whether what happened being "cutthroat", well yes, but so what? You engaged in a business transaction and you won. And, so did everyone else--you were dealing with sophisticated people who knew what they had and chose to make deals. It's not like you ripped off a little old lady who didn't know the value of the art.  

[vodou]

18 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

It is a pretty cool story, but I don't believe I could do that. The transaction sounds more like "business" than "hobby", and I try not to mix the two. 

As to whether what happened being "cutthroat", well yes, but so what? You engaged in a business transaction and you won. And, so did everyone else--you were dealing with sophisticated people who knew what they had and chose to make deals. It's not like you ripped off a little old lady who didn't know the value of the art.  

The word "valueless" is what stands out to me in relation to "rent seeking". I have my own opinions too but as is often ignored in these sorts of discussions there is a certain self-investment in all these situations, one I'd be loath to equate to valueless. Part of that investment is the amount of time and energy (or distraction from other pursuits of profit or leisure, if you will) it takes to feel comfortable paying anything more than the cost of materials for this stuff. That investment (on the part of the buyer) enriches the seller, they're in a more liquid market, and the buyer if they are able to identify mis-pricing (whether perceived or actual) and have allocated sufficient resources (another behind-the-scenes "investment") to take up the slack. This is all just another way of talking about the price of risk. Perhaps not everybody agrees that risk has a price or value, but those that do should remind themselves of it when a word like valueless is being used.

[Rick2you2]

14 minutes ago, vodou said:

The word "valueless" is what stands out to me in relation to "rent seeking". I have my own opinions too but as is often ignored in these sorts of discussions there is a certain self-investment in all these situations, one I'd be loath to equate to valueless. Part of that investment is the amount of time and energy (or distraction from other pursuits of profit or leisure, if you will) it takes to feel comfortable paying anything more than the cost of materials for this stuff. That investment (on the part of the buyer) enriches the seller, they're in a more liquid market, and the buyer if they are able to identify mis-pricing (whether perceived or actual) and have allocated sufficient resources (another behind-the-scenes "investment") to take up the slack. This is all just another way of talking about the price of risk. Perhaps not everybody agrees that risk has a price or value, but those that do should remind themselves of it when a word like valueless is being used.

Since we getting a little fancy here, I consider economic "rent" to be different than "return on investment." Return on investment is what you get back from a combination of the time, experience and skill, as well as labor and material, needed to accomplish a task. "Rent" is like "excess profit": the money a monopolist makes just because the monopolist is the only seller on the street. 

The transaction was pure "return on investment." The parties were sophisticated and were not being forced into a transaction they didn't want or understand. Value was added. 

On a different note, I don't particularly like the Kirby piece, so why it's worth what it went for remains the real mystery.  

[Dick Pontoon]

Glen -

Keep the Panel Art Fan stories coming!

[Bronty]

I live the Kirby personally ... how many big expressive Kirby spider-mans are there?   It’s like an insight into what might have been.   But I do prefer the Everett 

[vodou]

No interest in that Kirby then or now, at any price. I find it surprising that it was anywhere near $10k twenty years ago. I guess that as the market, but I wouldn't go $10k today for it. A big zero. And I haven't even clicked through to see Everett in comparison, though I'm sure I'd love it, as I'm not on FB.

[glenbru]

19 minutes ago, vodou said:

No interest in that Kirby then or now, at any price. I find it surprising that it was anywhere near $10k twenty years ago. I guess that as the market, but I wouldn't go $10k today for it. A big zero. And I haven't even clicked through to see Everett in comparison, though I'm sure I'd love it, as I'm not on FB.

The thing you have to know about the Kirby is it's huge -- something like 18x30 -- just so impressive.  It's also inked by Jack for those of us that care about such things.

I'll post the Everett here so the non FB people can see it as well.

At this point in my life, if I had to choose between the two, I'd probably go for the Everett.  It's a close call though.

[glenbru]

1 hour ago, Pontoon said:

Glen -

Keep the Panel Art Fan stories coming!

Thanks!  I'm very happy you're enjoying the stories.  Nice of you to say.

[vodou]

9 minutes ago, glenbru said:

The thing you have to know about the Kirby is it's huge -- something like 18x30 -- just so impressive.  It's also inked by Jack for those of us that care about such things.

I'll post the Everett here so the non FB people can see it as well.

At this point in my life, if I had to choose between the two, I'd probably go for the Everett.  It's a close call though.

Bu

Thanks for the image Glen. Very nice, so yes Everett hands down. Inked by Kirby is special, and I guess I'd have to see the size in person to appreciate that apsect. But I'm really not a fan of the image itself.

[comix4fun]

15 hours ago, Bronty said:

My bad  You did say it was cutthroat shortly after though?    It left the impression you thought it was dishonest .   Perhaps I am mistaken 

Cutthroat isn't necessarily dishonest. It may be ruthless, and unforgiving, and wiling to take advantage of every possible advantage in doing a deal, with "friends" and strangers alike....but not technically dishonest. 

From my time in the trenches, and at these same conventions, if there was ever a word that aptly described the artist and dealer alley Arabian bazaar atmosphere of trading, flipping, selling, and buying it's GOT to be cutthroat.  

There are far worse stories than this in the world of history of comic art dealing, to be sure, and I didn't read his post as admonishing or labeling that this was among the worst of them.  I read his post as more that it seems he was willing to pull $7.5k profit from a friend, while dealers were willing to have a bidding war ensue over a piece that was already priced which cost him a couple grand more than originally agreed.....so as much as you'd feel sympathy for the created bidding war, it's assuaged by the two-hour-flip-windfall that financed the deal to begin with.

Everyone has a magic number that makes these flip deals possible/tempting...usually it's at least double...but it's a piece by piece, situation by situation, personal decision.

[chrisco37]

 

2 hours ago, Pontoon said:

Glen -

Keep the Panel Art Fan stories coming!

Agreed!  Really cool to hear this stuff.  Especially considering so much that goes on in this portion of the hobby is so (annoyingly) secretive.  

Both are pretty cool pieces.  I actually prefer the Everett (which is crazy since I love the King so much).   Really great piece there.   And Spidey was never Kirby's strong suit.  Heck, he even forgot to put the spider on his chest.   

[glenbru]

27 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

 

Agreed!  Really cool to hear this stuff.  Especially considering so much that goes on in this portion of the hobby is so (annoyingly) secretive.  

Both are pretty cool pieces.  I actually prefer the Everett (which is crazy since I love the King so much).   Really great piece there.   And Spidey was never Kirby's strong suit.  Heck, he even forgot to put the spider on his chest.   

Thank you for that.  I'll do my best to overcome my alzheimer's and come up with other stories.

Two things bothered me about the Everett, if I'm being picky.  The first was I didn't like that Subby was in profile, I wanted his whole face.  And the other really nitpicky thing is his big toe weirdly pointing up at you.  I admit, I'm crazy.

[Bronty]

THAT's what bothered you?      That top panel is sublime.   If I was going to worry about something it would be that the lower two panels don't add anythign to the art.    (Though I wouldn't care!)

[glenbru]

21 minutes ago, Bronty said:

THAT's what bothered you?      That top panel is sublime.   If I was going to worry about something it would be that the lower two panels don't add anythign to the art.    (Though I wouldn't care!)

I like the planes.   Like I said, I'm crazy.

[Bronty]

2 minutes ago, glenbru said:

I like the planes.   Like I said, I'm crazy.

Batshlt crazy!

Edited January 30, 2018 by Bronty

[vodou]

1 hour ago, comix4fun said:

Everyone has a magic number that makes these flip deals possible/tempting...usually it's at least double...but it's a piece by piece, situation by situation, personal decision.

"Time" is a relevant factor, but the funny thing this endless ramp to the heavens that mainstream superhero OA has taken is...doubling is almost always short-selling the full potential. In hindsight.

People, that have been at this a while, are fond of saying that they couldn't afford their collection today (meaning with today's disposable/savings at today's prices). That's a demonstration of how fast prices have risen in just a few years, and there's a lesson there similar to the infamous RE bubble* of the previous decade. And it does beg the question a fair number of us keep asking: where is and will the 'new' money come from? But me: I couldn't afford today the collection I had after just my first three years of hard collecting...twenty years ago. I could have just kept that...simple...and been my own Cabal of One but funny thing, I much prefer my collection of today aesthetically  

 

*Where average price grew at a much steeper incline than average income (which was essentially flat).