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The quest for an ASM SA run - Graded or raw?
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Started by SECollector,

73 posts in this topic

Martin Sinescu

Martin Sinescu

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, SECollector said:

There is a really interesting essay written by Arlond Blumberg about the death of Gwen Stacy and the birth of the darker Bronze Age. There are probably many factors that define a soft border between ages, but I really liked this analysis of an event that really ended in some ways an age of innocence and idealism and started another one of more realism. I would definitely recommend this read: The Night Gwen Stacy Died, by Arnold T. Blumberg 

The link didn't work for me, but I did find at least an excerpt of it online. Look, I'm no Spider-Man scholar and those of you that have read the whole run or lived through it can comment better, but the author cites the ASM drug issues and the more widespread introduction of supernatural characters (Morbius would be an obvious example) as indicators of a new age (no argument there), yet conveniently leapfrogs a few years ahead so that he can lobby for the Death of Gwen as the punctuation of the Silver Age. Huh?

  • ASM 96-98 (May-July 1971) had already wrapped up before DC's drug issue, Green Lantern 85 (Sept 1971), and I don't think anyone would argue GL was still in the SA (since GL 76 is considered one of the landmark Bronze books). Those non-code ASM issues tackle drug abuse, social reform, class and racial inequality. Does any of that sound like the boyish innocence of the SA? Why in the world would an ASM scholar/fan not own this as a sign that the title was at the forefront of a new era? If ASM 121 is the end of the SA for Spidey, the title was about 3 years behind the competition! Even the letters column in 96 acknowledges that it's a new era (not Bronze, obviously, but the 70's) and that Marvel is changing with the times, moving toward fighting your battles with words and thinking rather than physical violence (as evidenced by Randy challenging Norman to use his class influence to affect change).
  • The introduction of Morbius a few months later in 101 (Oct 1971) predates many of the other supernatural characters (WWBN, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, etc.) and only follows DC's intro of Swamp Thing in HOS 92 (July 1971) by a few months (another book widely regarded as a Bronze classic, but not even the beginning of the 70's horror movement as HOS had already revamped a few years prior).

So, my response is that the author is putting his personal attachment at the forefront in an attempt to further the significance of a book which is already one of the landmark moments in a character's 50+-year history. It's just hard to take that as a scholarly examination.  I mean, there's a definitive departure from innocence when Harry's popping pills for everything and aunt May is going to see "Hair"!!  If the author asserted that it was the "greatest" moment of the Bronze Age, I might buy that, but I think it's just foolish for him to argue that Gwen's death was the end of the Silver Age when the title had clearly crossed that line several years earlier.

Not in Kansas anymore...

ASM97_05-1024x458.thumb.jpg.9111d11a5cf08f89ed8de3770ed683cd.jpg

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Martin Sinescu

Martin Sinescu

Posted
Posted

And really I don't say any of that to discourage anyone from establishing their own focus for collecting a run. ASM definitely has so many boundaries available for run collectors, whether it's setting anniversary issues as landmarks, or eras, or artist runs, there's plenty of variety and no reason anyone has to make a line in the sand and say "I'm only collecting this because it meets this specific criteria". Once you hit that mark, you're going to find a reason to move the sticks so you can buy more anyway. All part of the never-ending fun -- just buy what excites you and don't force yourself to buy things you don't like just because it fits a certain category. 

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, tv horror said:

Veteran member and a lot more knowledgeable that me told me this:  

"Start of bronze age was april 1970 with GL 76 so that would be ASM 82 last SA book"

Comic ages do not cleanly and conveniently begin or end like that. Most titles slowly transition over many issues and the common reference to specific issues being the "start" of an age does not preclude earlier issues from being part of that age or later issues from being part of the previous age.

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makeminemego

makeminemego

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, SECollector said:

Good luck with your hunt for the last 15! How about 1-19? :wink:

I'm in the process of finishing all Marvel titles from 1/65-7/69 currently (@72% complete at the moment......reprints too!), along with the ASM run which is longer than the rest.  When I get that nailed down, it's on to January-December of 1964.  Then 1963, and so on.  

Edited by makeminemego
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SECollector

SECollector

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 hours ago, Martin Sinescu said:

The link didn't work for me, but I did find at least an excerpt of it online. Look, I'm no Spider-Man scholar and those of you that have read the whole run or lived through it can comment better, but the author cites the ASM drug issues and the more widespread introduction of supernatural characters (Morbius would be an obvious example) as indicators of a new age (no argument there), yet conveniently leapfrogs a few years ahead so that he can lobby for the Death of Gwen as the punctuation of the Silver Age. Huh?

  • ASM 96-98 (May-July 1971) had already wrapped up before DC's drug issue, Green Lantern 85 (Sept 1971), and I don't think anyone would argue GL was still in the SA (since GL 76 is considered one of the landmark Bronze books). Those non-code ASM issues tackle drug abuse, social reform, class and racial inequality. Does any of that sound like the boyish innocence of the SA? Why in the world would an ASM scholar/fan not own this as a sign that the title was at the forefront of a new era? If ASM 121 is the end of the SA for Spidey, the title was about 3 years behind the competition! Even the letters column in 96 acknowledges that it's a new era (not Bronze, obviously, but the 70's) and that Marvel is changing with the times, moving toward fighting your battles with words and thinking rather than physical violence (as evidenced by Randy challenging Norman to use his class influence to affect change).
  • The introduction of Morbius a few months later in 101 (Oct 1971) predates many of the other supernatural characters (WWBN, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, etc.) and only follows DC's intro of Swamp Thing in HOS 92 (July 1971) by a few months (another book widely regarded as a Bronze classic, but not even the beginning of the 70's horror movement as HOS had already revamped a few years prior).

So, my response is that the author is putting his personal attachment at the forefront in an attempt to further the significance of a book which is already one of the landmark moments in a character's 50+-year history. It's just hard to take that as a scholarly examination.  I mean, there's a definitive departure from innocence when Harry's popping pills for everything and aunt May is going to see "Hair"!!  If the author asserted that it was the "greatest" moment of the Bronze Age, I might buy that, but I think it's just foolish for him to argue that Gwen's death was the end of the Silver Age when the title had clearly crossed that line several years earlier.

Not in Kansas anymore...

ASM97_05-1024x458.thumb.jpg.9111d11a5cf08f89ed8de3770ed683cd.jpg

Thanks for your post. My initial question was whether there is a consensus about the transition to the SA (in the ASM run specifically) and it looks like there isn't which doesn't get me by surprise honestly. I totally agree with you that there are many boundaries to set the line at (and then conveniently expand it to keep the fun going on lol). But I found the article to be interesting nevertheless (the link should be working now by the way, I have edited it).

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SECollector

SECollector

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Posted
6 hours ago, tv horror said:

Veteran member and a lot more knowledgeable that me told me this:  

"Start of bronze age was april 1970 with GL 76 so that would be ASM 82 last SA book"

 

 

 

 

With all respect, I don't really think that most of collectors would agree with this parallel definite line among different runs theory. But it is an opinion / theory which goes to show that there is no real consensus on this.

1 hour ago, makeminemego1 said:

I'm in the process of finishing all Marvel titles from 1/65-7/69 currently (@72% complete at the moment......reprints too!), along with the ASM run which is longer than the rest.  When I get that nailed down, it's on to January-December of 1964.  Then 1963, and so on.  

Good luck and enjoy the journey! That's a really tough task (thumbsu

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billbrown7080

billbrown7080

Posted
Posted

 I'm late to this thread...

But I have An Amazing Spider-Man Collection that runs from 1-670....

I inherited the collection from my grandfather.

when I inherited the collection, I went through and bought new bags and backers for every book and of course new boxes, I then went through and graded every issue and made lists..

I have added around 7 issues to the collection that were missing through trades...those issues were #6, #41, #90 and 3 issues in the 100's

The collection notes now are-

i'm complete from 15 to 241....

I have #1,2,4,5,6,7,9, and 10....but Am missing 11,12,13,and 14

from 242 to 670 ...I'm missing 50 books with 95% of the missing books coming between 400 to 670

 

My Average grades from 1 to 20....Is probably 2.0 to 4.0

Average Grade from 21 to 90 is probably 4.0 to 6.0(some lower and higher)

Average grade from 90 to 150 is probably 5.0 to 6.5(some higher)

average grade from 150 and on is 8.0 +

Overall, no words can describe the love and joy I have for my ASM collection...simply put, Had I not Inherited it, there would be no reasonable way of me ever putting this collection together.

Obviously my big goal is to get Issues #3,8, 11, 12, 13 and 14....I would love to be able to say I'm complete from 1 to 241...

the 50 issues I need from 400 to 670 wont be hard and wont be expensive when the time comes...I'll probably wait until I finally piece together the 6 issues I'm missing from 1 to 20...and then just buy them all in like a week..

as for Amazing Fantasy #15....I dont even consider it missing anymore because at this point, Its too late...I'm not going to be able to get it...I kind of treat that book like it diesnt exist so it doesnt bother me that I dont have it and will never have it...I had the chance to get 1 in 2007, and didnt...to this day its one of my biggest regrets.

 

I often look at my ASM 1 to 20's and am just amazed I have them....

before I inherited them, I spent YEARS looking at them at Grandfathers....Its still feel crazy that I got them

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billbrown7080

billbrown7080

Posted
Posted
On 2/1/2018 at 1:43 PM, fishbone said:

Well, I have the whole run -  AF15 and then ASM1-700, plus everything after 700 up until now, plus I have all the Annuals and most of the (significant) cross-overs with Spidey on the cover. I think the key thing to do is hopefully find a nicely priced run - I was lucky to score a beauty run (many of which where in the 150-400 range) for $600 about 12 years ago on eBay.

I read this and this made me think of a question I've often wondered...

 

does anyone have a definitive list of every single Spider-Man appearance in Comic Book History?

obviously putting together all of his TITLES wouldnt be to hard(time consuming) but certainly do-able....but then the hard part would be trying to track down every single cross-over and  guest Appearance he's had in other characters titles...

but I'm sure some SUPER FAN out there has done this?

which brings me to my next question, does anyone out there actually have this ultimate spider-man collection..a collection of literally every single Issue and appearance he's ever had in any comic ever!?

 

 

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fishbone

fishbone

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, billbrown7080 said:

I read this and this made me think of a question I've often wondered...

 

does anyone have a definitive list of every single Spider-Man appearance in Comic Book History?

obviously putting together all of his TITLES wouldnt be to hard(time consuming) but certainly do-able....but then the hard part would be trying to track down every single cross-over and  guest Appearance he's had in other characters titles...

but I'm sure some SUPER FAN out there has done this?

which brings me to my next question, does anyone out there actually have this ultimate spider-man collection..a collection of literally every single Issue and appearance he's ever had in any comic ever!?

 

 

It was my goal, what you propose here, so I tried to track down every cross-over COVER appearance , but then I gave up because I wasn’t sure how to find every single one, especially bronze to modern — but I think I have all from the 60’s to the mid-70’s ....

and not just crossovers , but team ups and special issues, etc

so many out there ....:

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billbrown7080

billbrown7080

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, fishbone said:

It was my goal, what you propose here, so I tried to track down every cross-over COVER appearance , but then I gave up because I wasn’t sure how to find every single one, especially bronze to modern — but I think I have all from the 60’s to the mid-70’s ....

and not just crossovers , but team ups and special issues, etc

so many out there ....:

when you were searching did you ever find any kind of list? whether it be incomplete or not, did you ever run across a list of someone attempting to list every Spider-Man appearance in comic books?

 

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fishbone

fishbone

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, billbrown7080 said:

when you were searching did you ever find any kind of list? whether it be incomplete or not, did you ever run across a list of someone attempting to list every Spider-Man appearance in comic books?

 

Yes, I remember finding a list on a comic fan type of website ... searching for it now , but I’m talking over 10 years ago now .... who knows if it’s still out there 

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