Which of these two books has more upside from their current levels... 1 1

[exitmusicblue]

10 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Tj

 

This.

Moon Knight is a C-list character.

Yes - Netflix will eventually make a show, or he might feature in a movie or two.

But he'll still be a C-list character, alongside Iron Fist and Blade.

The problem with "investing" in his likely media appearance in the next three years is that...it will come and go.

Five years from now (and two years post-solo Netflix show or equivalent) he'll be back to being his usual C-list self, a la Iron Fist and well...Blade.

Plus, most of the run-up in WBN 32 has already happened over the last two years because of (false) rumors of an announcement by now.

I enjoy the character; I _love_ that particular book.

 

But 10 years from now (and 15, and 20) Walking Dead 1 beats it hands-down.

I’m betting on the property with the 40+ year history of going up in value vs. the one past its prime that has bubble talk following its every step.

[Aweandlorder]

Unless kirkman gets into ds in some sort of sexual/racial scandal, I don't see WD ever being forgotten as the successful book/show that it is today

[raybowles]

13 hours ago, oakman29 said:

I feel quite the opposite.  I think WD is a huge cultural phenomenon  that has changed the way T.V. produces shows.

I am However a huge Moon Knight fan, but I think Walking Dead #1 Will rise to the heights of a TMNT #1 later down the line. Given the popularity, very low print run, demand of this book.

+1.  Great post IMO.

[darkstar]

19 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Didn’t mean to ruffle the feathers of WD fans, I just speak from the vantage point of a longtime collector who also studied history (including the history of culture). 

But you see, you've made the mistake in believing that I am a fan of The Walking Dead. I've read the first issue once, never owned it, and it remains the only issue I've ever read from the series. The lowest issue I've ever owned was #38 and I believe I've owned probably less than twenty Walking Dead books ever. I've seen the first season of the show in its entirety, after that I've watched episodes from time to time. You don't need to be a fan of the book or the show to recognize the property's place in modern comics or comic book history. 

You are grossly overestimating the necessity of the Walking Dead to remain important in overall pop culture for it to remain important to comic book collectors. Drawing parallels to Game of Thrones or Star Wars is misguided. Game of Thrones wasn't a comic book property first (neither was Star Wars obviously), its existence in comics is an afterthought cash grab meant to siphon off money from the millions of people who read the novels. And Star Wars for all its popularity and longevity has seen very few issues actually command significant money from comic book collectors compared to how many issues have been produced. The overall market for a property and the comic book market for a property are two entirely different things.

 

19 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Moonie is going nowhere as long as Marvel is kickin’.  When WD outsells all Marvel sales combined, then i’ll be satisfied.  Until then. or until the show evolves from being “worse than ever” or has successful spinoffs or a film franchise, I’m not persuaded.  

 

You're right, Moon Knight is going nowhere, as he has been stuck in the mud for decades and has failed to take that next step despite how many attempts?

Your requirement that The Walking Dead will need to outsell all Marvel sales combined in order to cement its place in comics is absurd. You are comparing a property that has become a cultural phenomenon for a non-insignificant amount of time within, and outside, the comics industry to a stagnant character that has been treading water since his inception over 40 years ago.

The Walking Dead show has already lead to a successful spin-off which, according to fans, bottomed out and has now rebounded significantly. 

Long-term reliance on a property's presence in film or television and for it to be a driving force in the demand for its comic book is a terrible approach to investment. 

[darkstar]

31 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

I’m betting on the property with the 40+ year history of going up in value vs. the one past its prime that has bubble talk following its every step.

Bubble talk? The valuation of Walking Dead #1 is based on too many known factors to be part of a bubble. 

[exitmusicblue]

1 minute ago, darkstar said:

Bubble talk? The valuation of Walking Dead #1 is based on too many known factors to be part of a bubble. 

I gently refer you (and OP) to the WD bubble thread.  No more from me in this thread.

I do like zombies, though, and appreciate all that WD has done for the genre.  My D&D character is a necromancer for a reason.

Edited February 14, 2018 by exitmusicblue

[darkstar]

59 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Having never been a WD fan, I’m offering what I think is an objective opinion.  

You have a slabbed copy of Werewolf by Night #32 in your signature...

[exitmusicblue]

Just now, darkstar said:

You have a slabbed copy of Werewolf by Night #32 in your signature...

An objective opinion on WD. : ))))) I’d have to recuse myself on WWBN.

[darkstar]

Just now, exitmusicblue said:

I kinly refer you (and OP) to the WD bubble thread.

I do like zombies, though, and appreciate all that WD has done for the genre.  My D&D character is a necromancer for a reason.

The Walking Dead print run is known, for the first issue and every other issue.

The entire Walking Dead sales history is known, for the first issue and every other issue.

The book's census numbers will forever remain largely uncorrupted, due to the book being published after professional grading was introduced, very few re-submits are going to populate the census compared to older books.

So where exactly exists the possibility that the book is in, on, or adjacent to the bubble when the amount of uncertainty and misinformation in regards to the property is beyond insignificant? People paying 2.5 to 3k now with the idea that the book is going to get going when the show REALLY takes off? Lmao, that period has already passed us by.  

[exitmusicblue]

17 minutes ago, darkstar said:

The Walking Dead print run is known, for the first issue and every other issue.

The entire Walking Dead sales history is known, for the first issue and every other issue.

The book's census numbers will forever remain largely uncorrupted, due to the book being published after professional grading was introduced, very few re-submits are going to populate the census compared to older books.

So where exactly exists the possibility that the book is in, on, or adjacent to the bubble when the amount of uncertainty and misinformation in regards to the property is beyond insignificant? People paying 2.5 to 3k now with the idea that the book is going to get going when the show REALLY takes off? Lmao, that period has already passed us by.  

[raybowles]

2 hours ago, darkstar said:

The people that spend hundreds and/or thousands of dollars on a comic book will remember Walking Dead in 20+ years. Walking Dead #1 is arguably the most important book in comics since the start of the 2000s. It is responsible for the resurgence of Image, created an entire wave of new money being put into comics, and is the reason why numerous comic book properties have been adapted for television including Preacher, The Strain, Lucifer, Gotham, and iZombie, etc. I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that it will only be vaguely remembered, especially if you are speaking among comic book fans/readers/collectors, because that is ridiculous.

Moon Knight is just popular enough to earn a series reboot every 2 years. The run-up on Werewolf By Night #32 was due in large part to a false rumor 2 years ago that the character was going to be included in the next wave of Netflix shows for Marvel and since then has not seen pushback as buyers are now pot committed, have fomo, and because the possibility of the character appearing on screen...somewhere still makes a lot of sense to many of them.

Cater to wider audience? The book outsold every Marvel title last month. Millions still watch the show despite it being worse than ever. The property has already made its impact, it doesn't need to do anything more and it will still be a key book for decades. The only mark against Walking Dead #1 is that it was published during the professional grading era, which means the census numbers will always be overwhelmingly top-heavy. 

Great post.  Plus there is a good chance that Walking Dead with have more spin off shows and a movie.   For those of you who stopped watching Fear the Walking Dead you should give it another chance.   The last season was really solid plus the upcoming season will have Morgan as a new character on the show.  

[1Cool]

Lets compare a CGC 9.4 Werewolf By Night 32 ($2,800) and Walking Dead 1 CGC 9.8 ($2,600).  935 copies of Walking dead 1 and 163 copies of WWBN 32 on census.  One is 5x more rare then the other but I'd say WD 1 currently has 5x more demand which explains the close price.  We know Walking Dead has been a cultural icon for numerous years and unfortunately I'd say the zombie tv show format has stagnated a bit and will probably continue to do so unless something revolutionary pops up to revitalize the shows.  Moon Knight is known by few but a 9.4 still commands big bucks due to rarity.  Is Moon Knight a cool character that could be a hit with the masses?  I doubt it from what I remember about his story and character.  Could he fit in with a Netflix show (or similar channel)?  I can't see it at all with the current shows.  I've got to give the nod to Walking Dead 1 just because I just can't see Moon Knight being a hit in the future and WD 1 is a known hit book.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

WWBN 32

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

7 minutes ago, The Resurrection said:

WWBN 32

Pat and I hope WWBN 32 goes up and up.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

37 minutes ago, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

Pat and I hope WWBN 32 goes up and up.

I don't, I don't have a copy and Moon Knight is one of my favorite characters. Hope all is well Manny!

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

36 minutes ago, The Resurrection said:

I don't, I don't have a copy and Moon Knight is one of my favorite characters. Hope all is well Manny!

Pat, doing well and I hope that you and your family are also doing well.

Okay, no price increase for WWBN 32. I purchased my second copy, CGC graded at VF/8.0 in around 1982 for, at most, $5. I'll check my "log" to see if I wrote it down.

I gave the copy that I purchased off the newsstand to one of my cousins as a birthday gift when we were both kids; who knew. Since the first price spike for this book we'll talk about it and laugh. Of course, I also cry ; nah, we have always been very close and he enjoyed the heck out of the book.

[Gatsby77]

5 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

I’m betting on the property with the 40+ year history of going up in value vs. the one past its prime that has bubble talk following its every step.

Nah - that works against it too.

First, it's a 15 year-old book and we're 8+ years into the bubble.

But more importantly?

The Rule of 25. Moon Knight's already hit peak nostalgia while TWD's is still more than a decade off.

The biggest fans of Moon Knight are those who remember either his first solo series (early '80s) or those who remember the Marc Spector series (90s). They're now in their 30s-40s. 10-15 years from now they'll be worried about their kids college tuition or maxing out their 40`1k ahead of retirement.

The Walking Dead, however, was revolutionary once it was really "discovered" by the comic book masses around 2005-2006 -- a solid 2-3 years past its release.

And not only dominates most of the superhero market in terms of new issues each month more than a decade later but (more importantly) has entered the public consciousness.

It's arguably the most important comic of the last 20 years (i.e., since 1998) and the most important since TMNT 1 (i.e., the last 35 years) in terms of mainstream crossover appeal.

Sure...in a year or three the show will be cancelled.

Demand (and price) will die down for a few years.

But a decade later, it will be "rediscovered" by adults in their 30s-40s who have fond memories of the show from when they were teens -- and the buying power to finally collect a piece of their childhood again, just as it turns 25-30 years old.

[exitmusicblue]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Nah - that works against it too.

First, it's a 15 year-old book and we're 8+ years into the bubble.

But more importantly?

The Rule of 25. Moon Knight's already hit peak nostalgia while TWD's is still more than a decade off.

The biggest fans of Moon Knight are those who remember either his first solo series (early '80s) or those who remember the Marc Spector series (90s). They're now in their 30s-40s. 10-15 years from now they'll be worried about their kids college tuition or maxing out their 40`1k ahead of retirement.

The Walking Dead, however, was revolutionary once it was really "discovered" by the comic book masses around 2005-2006 -- a solid 2-3 years past its release.

And not only dominates most of the superhero market in terms of new issues each month more than a decade later but (more importantly) has entered the public consciousness.

It's arguably the most important comic of the last 20 years (i.e., since 1998) and the most important since TMNT 1 (i.e., the last 35 years) in terms of mainstream crossover appeal.

Sure...in a year or three the show will be cancelled.

Demand (and price) will die down for a few years.

But a decade later, it will be "rediscovered" by adults in their 30s-40s who have fond memories of the show from when they were teens -- and the buying power to finally collect a piece of their childhood again, just as it turns 25-30 years old.

I still like my original response above.  

[oakman29]

Personally I'm happy both books are doing well. The truth is that Walking Dead #1 is THE modern age grail to have, just as TMNT#1 is THE copper age grail to have.

WWBN 32 is a great book, it's right up there with ToD #10, MP 15, but you've gotta ask yourself. Is it THE bronze key to have?  I can think of a few others higher on that tier.

[WolverineX]

24 minutes ago, oakman29 said:

Personally I'm happy both books are doing well. The truth is that Walking Dead #1 is THE modern age grail to have, just as TMNT#1 is THE copper age grail to have.

WWBN 32 is a great book, it's right up there with ToD #10, MP 15, but you've gotta ask yourself. Is it THE bronze key to have?  I can think of a few others higher on that tier.

Cerebus 1 ??