Netflix's COBRA KAI starring Ralph Macchio, William Zabka (2021) 2 2

[drotto]

23 hours ago, kav said:

A plot is like the engine in a car-every part should have a function moving the car forward efficiently.  Adding a flag that pops up out of the hood that says "rich people are bad" would be a poor design-especially if it used up 1/4 of the gas.  The casino scene took up about 20 minutes-minutes are gas, in a movie.

I agree to an extent, but I am not any kind a writer.  Shows have a little more room to explore plots, and do character development that have little impact on the main storyline. The longer form, just like books give you this luxury. Movies however when you need to do all this in 2 to 3 hours, getting plot and character moments, can not afford any wasted screens.  JK Rollins is a prime example of this.  She writes books very well, and the tangents add a lot to the world and the characters.  With long form you can afford to do this and it adds to the experience. Let her write a screenplay and it is a disaster, because she does not know how to write with economy, and is unable to edit what is essential to what is wasted time. 

 

To me a big indication of a bad screenplay is one that relies on exposition dump scenes to fill up all the holes.

Edited January 10, 2021 by drotto

[Number 6]

On 1/7/2021 at 6:19 AM, drotto said:

There are a few things in this show that boarderline break my immersion.   First, karate is that important to a very small group of people.  It is not popular to the point where it would take over dozens of kids lives and risk destroying them.  The idea that the social hiarchy of a school would be based on what dojo you are in is ridiculous. The importance of karate in the series is laughable.

 

Second, as has already been mentioned, so many of these kids would have been arrested by now. There is no way these repeated fights and downright assaults would go unnoticed.

 

But the rest of the show is just so good, I forgive these things.  

 

 

There’s an episode in Season 2 where the adult Home Depot employee comes in to sign up for classes and Johnny tells him “this is for kids”. 
 

Perhaps I’m reading too much into it, but when I saw that it felt like a nearly 4th wall breaking acknowledgement by the creators that the entire premise of the Karate Kid franchise - quickly mastering karate will beat the bullies, get the girl, and win the day - is just a preteen empowerment fantasy. 
 

One of the things that impresses me about the show is how well they balance some genuine drama of parents trying to relate to their kids and adults trying to atone for the mistakes of the past while simultaneously nudge-nudge wink-winking at the notion that karate is the end-all, be-all for the principle characters in this town. 
 

Honestly, I’m surprised at how much my wife and I are thoroughly enjoying this show. When it was first announced I assumed that because it was focusing on Cobra Kai that’ll would be a violent, nihilistic turn on the franchise and wasn’t interested at all. When we finally decided to try it after word-of-mouth, we binge-watched the first two seasons in a little over a day, and binged the 3rd season when it was released. 
 

I not going say it’s great TV, it’s not some “masterpiece”. But it’s definitely much better than what one would expect of a Karate Kid spin-off TV show. I’ve enjoyed this as much as the Mandalorian....something I thought I’d never say about the Karate Kid. 
 

Something else I enjoy:  the Karate Kid franchise is one of diminishing returns. Yet, rather than pretend the sequels don’t exist, they work them into to the story in a very satisfying way. At this point, I think they could pull off having Hilary Swank show up. 
 

Having said that, I kind of hope Season 4 is the last. I always believe in ending on a high note, I think you can only do the off-again/on-again relationship with Johnny and Daniel so many times before it becomes stale. And they seemed positioned for a rounded-out resolution in S4.  

Edited January 10, 2021 by Number 6

[kav]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I appreciate you're sharing an informed opinion. Yet I still love this show, and surprised how entertaining it has been over three seasons.

I think others have had a great time as well. So why do we need to belabor the concern it is not following screenplay etiquette if it is actually bringing great entertainment and a fun story?

Read my posts-I said i love the show and it's well written.  I lauded it's great writing over and over.  Star Wars Last Jedi was the example I gave of a poorly written -script.

[kav]

3 hours ago, drotto said:

I agree to an extent, but I am not any kind a writer.  Shows have a little more room to explore plots, and do character development that have little impact on the main storyline. The longer form, just like books give you this luxury. Movies however when you need to do all this in 2 to 3 hours, getting plot and character movements, can not afford any wasted screens.  JK Rollins is a prime example of this.  She writes books very well, and the tangents add a lot to the world and the characters.  With long form you can afford to do this and it adds to the experience. Let her write a screenplay and it is a disaster, because she does not know how to write with economy, and is unable to edit what is essential to what is wasted time. 

 

To me a big indication of a bad screenplay is one that relies on exposition dump scenes to fill up all the holes.

Exposition dump is a killer.  Look at the movie Dune-it started with a LONG exposition.  I knew right then it was gonna be a dud.  It's a shame because everything that the screenwriter feels a need to be explained could be SHOWN in an interesting fashion.  Dune could have worked as 3 movies.  But it would take a hell of a director.

[kav]

My personal least favorite exposition in films is the female computer voice
STATION WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 MINUTES UNLES CONTROL RODS ARE ACTIVATED BY SITE SUPERVISOR

[Bosco685]

8 minutes ago, kav said:

Read my posts-I said i love the show and it's well written.  I lauded it's great writing over and over.  Star Wars Last Jedi was the example I gave of a poorly written ---script.

Gotcha. It just seemed like certain portions of the story got fixated on. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, kav said:

My personal least favorite exposition in films is the female computer voice
STATION WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 MINUTES UNLES CONTROL RODS ARE ACTIVATED BY SITE SUPERVISOR

That's so 'Mission Impossible'. 

[bentbryan]

1 hour ago, kav said:

My personal least favorite exposition in films is the female computer voice
STATION WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 MINUTES UNLES CONTROL RODS ARE ACTIVATED BY 

[kav]

INSERT ID CHIP FACE UP OR THE BAD GUY WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE OVER THE STATION AND OBLITERATE THE PLANET-INSERT ID CHIP FACE UP-

[kav]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Gotcha. It just seemed like certain portions of the story got fixated on. 

I did say there wasnt much of a plot-but this is not the death knell for a film-good characterization and lots of conflict can carry a movie.  
As I said you could have a great movie and the plot is just trying to get a tube of toothpaste.

[kav]

Watching "Unhinged".  dude shot in shoulder and abdomen and 30 min later is fighting like a wildcat.  No pain no nuthin.  Not even bleeding really.  Suspension of disbelief gone.

[greggy]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

Watching "Unhinged".  dude shot in shoulder and abdomen and 30 min later is fighting like a wildcat.  No pain no nuthin.  Not even bleeding really.  Suspension of disbelief gone.

That what they said. 

[kav]

Just now, greggy said:

That what they said. 

someone on the set should have said it.

[kav]

13 hours ago, drotto said:

To me a big indication of a bad screenplay is one that relies on exposition dump scenes to fill up all the holes.

I'm watching Ava-at the beginning is an exposition dump but it's well done-abt a 60 clip of various life events, reports, images, etc that gives a full back story to the assassin.  Very easy to screw something like this up and it does not feel forced at all.
I recently watched another movie that used the same montage method-cant remember the movie-and it felt forced.  Cant even explain why it worked for one movie and not the other.  Wish i could remember the movie so I could go back and try to analyze the difference.

Edited January 11, 2021 by kav

[Bosco685]

13 hours ago, kav said:

I did say there wasnt much of a plot-but this is not the death knell for a film-good characterization and lots of conflict can carry a movie.  
As I said you could have a great movie and the plot is just trying to get a tube of toothpaste.

There actually is, if you step back and reflect on the general story. And it makes a lot of sense.

After decades after their big fight where we all saw the world from Daniel's eyes where Johnny was just a bully that in the end needed to be put in his place we find out not everything was as obvious as it seemed. Johnny was actually disrespected more than once by Daniel's actions which only spurred his personality on to take the situation to an even more toxic environment. Yes, Johnny was misguided from the beginning. But he wasn't evil. So now we get to see something very interesting - both the protagonist and secondary antagonist (Kreese was the real antagonist) coming to recognize this as they still deal with the influencers leading to their original conflict.

I think it is more of a plot than you are giving it credit for. What do you think?

[Bosco685]

Quote

Johnny is a tough, sometimes extreme sensei in Cobra Kai, but rehabilitating Miguel from a coma proved what a dedicated teacher he really is.

 

Johnny Lawrence's (William Zabka) methods as a sensei in Cobra Kai are unconventional, but rehabilitating Miguel Diaz (Xolo Maridueña) from a comatose state showed that he is truly great at what he does. The Cobra Kai season 2 finale had previously made his teaching philosophy look downright toxic. An all-out karate brawl broke out at West Valley High School between Cobra Kai and Miyagi-Do, with Johnny's students ostensibly acting as the instigators. Despite attempting to walk back his "no mercy" dogma, letting Kreese back into the dojo made Cobra Kai more aggressive than ever, with Johnny's tough love speeches and extreme training exercises being taken to their logical endpoint.

 

The culminating fight at school left his first pupil, Miguel, comatose after being knocked off a stairwell by his rival Robby Keene (Tanner Buchanan). Seeing Miguel barely clinging to his life made the ever-confident Johnny even question his own qualifications as a sensei. Although Miguel began Cobra Kai season 3 still in a coma, he eventually recovered from his injuries and even paralysis, but not without hard work. However, neither traditional medicine nor hippy-dippy physical therapy helped him back on his feet. Instead, it was Johnny's somewhat bizarre tactics of obstacle courses and Dee Snider concerts that restored his student's health.

 

Though his methods were unorthodox, Johnny remained a steadfast presence in Miguel's recovery. He showed dedication to his pupil despite the apparent hopelessness of his situation, and his strategies ended up being effective in the end. Johnny helping Miguel proved once and for all that he knows what he is doing as a sensei, both as a technical instructor and mentor to his young students.

 

[kav]

5 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

There actually is, if you step back and reflect on the general story. And it makes a lot of sense.

After decades after their big fight where we all saw the world from Daniel's eyes where Johnny was just a bully that in the end needed to be put in his place we find out not everything was as obvious as it seemed. Johnny was actually disrespected more than once by Daniel's actions which only spurred his personality on to take the situation to an even more toxic environment. Yes, Johnny was misguided from the beginning. But he wasn't evil. So now we get to see something very interesting - both the protagonist and secondary antagonist (Kreese was the real antagonist) coming to recognize this as they still deal with the influencers leading to their original conflict.

I think it is more of a plot than you are giving it credit for. What do you think?

Well plot means a goal and an obstacle.  Daniel has the plot of 'stop cobra kai' but everyone else just reacts to what the other guys did.  We dont know what Crease's goal is, or any of the separate characters.  Of course it's a TV show and the plot rules are different than in a movie.  I mean I could ask the same thing about breaking bad-what was the plot?
I made a mistake about saying there isnt much of a plot in cobra kai.

[Bosco685]

16 minutes ago, kav said:

Well plot means a goal and an obstacle.  Daniel has the plot of 'stop cobra kai' but everyone else just reacts to what the other guys did.  We dont know what Crease's goal is, or any of the separate characters.  Of course it's a TV show and the plot rules are different than in a movie.  I mean I could ask the same thing about breaking bad-what was the plot?
I made a mistake about saying there isnt much of a plot in cobra kai.

How dare you!

It's all good. But I think Johnny's goals are really what helped move this show forward, as Daniel's views on life and his experiences drove the movies. Now we see it from the other side, and events are not so straightforward as they appeared. Johnny wasn't the big bad he came across as, but more a troubled soul that was easily manipulated early on leading to his life being a wreck for a long time. But now he wants to make things right - in his own 'ride through the waterfall multiple times before you realize not to do that' sort of way.

[kav]

7 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

How dare you!

It's all good. But I think Johnny's goals are really what helped move this show forward, as Daniel's views on life and his experiences drove the movies. Now we see it from the other side, and events are not so straightforward as they appeared. Johnny wasn't the big bad he came across as, but more a troubled soul that was easily manipulated early on leading to his life being a wreck for a long time. But now he wants to make things right - in his own 'ride through the waterfall multiple times before you realize not to do that' sort of way.

The highest form of screenplay is where neither guy is the 'bad guy' but they go back and forth in their conflict.  Hollywood almost always misses this opportunity by making the bad guy totally mwah ha ha bad.  It's boring.  Max lord is boring.  The Joker is boring.  Lex Luthor is boring.  MWAH HA HA or wutever.

[kav]

43 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

How dare you!

It's all good. But I think Johnny's goals are really what helped move this show forward, as Daniel's views on life and his experiences drove the movies. Now we see it from the other side, and events are not so straightforward as they appeared. Johnny wasn't the big bad he came across as, but more a troubled soul that was easily manipulated early on leading to his life being a wreck for a long time. But now he wants to make things right - in his own 'ride through the waterfall multiple times before you realize not to do that' sort of way.

I'm watching "Ava" and the plot is getting bogged down in her sister's boyfriend problems.  It's a movie about a government assasin but at 52 minutes it's mainly been about her sister's love problems.  Who thought this was a good idea?
Edit-Ok I'm out-I cant watch any more.  Should have checked rotten potatoes first.  As one reviewer said "John Wick with family problems".

Edited January 11, 2021 by kav