The high cost of FF # 48 4 4

[Chillax23]

44 minutes ago, JTLarsen said:

A rapid increase in prices alone doesn't tell us it's speculation. It could just be collectors who've always wanted it deciding they need to act now to get it in their PCs. Or new collectors awakening to its importance. A price run-up doesn't tell us the motives of the buyers.

Maybe not in isolation - but the fact that the rapid price increase happened to coincide with the Fox/Disney news almost certainly means there is speculation baked into the current prices (same with FF1's rise, Silver Surfer 1's rise, and even Hulk 181's rise).  That does not mean that some of it is not end user driven - but to say there is no speculation on FF48 pricing (not saying you are saying that) would be laughable.

[Sweet Lou 14]

3 minutes ago, Chillax23 said:

Maybe not in isolation - but the fact that the rapid price increase happened to coincide with the Fox/Disney news almost certainly means there is speculation baked into the current prices (same with FF1's rise, Silver Surfer 1's rise, and even Hulk 181's rise).  That does not mean that some of it is not end user driven - but to say there is no speculation on FF48 pricing (not saying you are saying that) would be laughable.

Right, but I think the point is that it's very hard to tease apart the interplay between speculation (people buying in order to sell) and FOMO (people like me who buy in order to hold).

Having locked up #48 and a whole bunch of other FFs and Silver Surfers, I am now struggling mightily with FOMO regarding FF #1, 4, and 5. 

[Chillax23]

17 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Right, but I think the point is that it's very hard to tease apart the interplay between speculation (people buying in order to sell) and FOMO (people like me who buy in order to hold).

Having locked up #48 and a whole bunch of other FFs and Silver Surfers, I am now struggling mightily with FOMO regarding FF #1, 4, and 5. 

I agree with you - and also feel your pain on FF5 - a book I really wanted, but fear has passed me by (I also really love FF3 for some reason and am glad it has not soared yet).

[KirbyJack]

3 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

Whats wrong with Pete Pot Paste ... ? ?

 

Nothin’! 

[Mr bla bla]

30 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

Nothin’! 

?

[Lazyboy]

14 hours ago, bluechip said:

Your opine is the first I ever heard FF48 described as a Galactus "cameo".   There's no comparing it to Hulk 180, which did not have Wolverine's name in giant letters on the cover, with them all looking o.s. at him, and the entire issue was not about his approach, and his appearance was not a full page splash.  It was not the first part of a multi-part story instead of a coming attractions teaser at the end of a different story.   No comparison.

Galactus unquestionably has a much greater presence in FF48 than Wolverine in IH180, but Incredible Hulk 180-181 is definitely a multi-part story.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, KirbyJack said:

5 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

Whats wrong with Pete Pot Paste ... ? ?

 

Nothin’! 

Obviously not well known enough if you don't know that his actual name is Paste Pot Pete.     

[Lucky Baru]

5 hours ago, JTLarsen said:

A rapid increase in prices alone doesn't tell us it's speculation. It could just be collectors who've always wanted it deciding they need to act now to get it in their PCs. Or new collectors awakening to its importance. A price run-up doesn't tell us the motives of the buyers.

If you were around for the 1990's (yes, a different type of speculation there) you'd know that what's been happening for the last 2 years feels a lot like what happened then.  It all comes down to an opinion.  I have mine and you may or may not look at it the same way.  If not, please share why you feel the sudden increase in price has occurred.

[KirbyJack]

57 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Obviously not well known enough if you don't know that his actual name is Paste Pot Pete.     

I was so eager to defend Ol’ Pete that I looked right past that!

[JTLarsen]

7 hours ago, Chillax23 said:

Maybe not in isolation - but the fact that the rapid price increase happened to coincide with the Fox/Disney news almost certainly means there is speculation baked into the current prices (same with FF1's rise, Silver Surfer 1's rise, and even Hulk 181's rise).  That does not mean that some of it is not end user driven - but to say there is no speculation on FF48 pricing (not saying you are saying that) would be laughable.

Which is why no one's saying it. And the same things that can fuel speculation can also fuel collectors...who want to get books for their PCs before the speculators run up the prices. I don't know how anyone would calculate what the ratio might be, but just the fact that there's a reason for a book to go up in value doesn't tell us whether that reason is motivating speculators more than collectors.

[JTLarsen]

3 hours ago, Lucky Baru said:

If you were around for the 1990's (yes, a different type of speculation there) you'd know that what's been happening for the last 2 years feels a lot like what happened then.  It all comes down to an opinion.  I have mine and you may or may not look at it the same way.  If not, please share why you feel the sudden increase in price has occurred.

Not knowing things is okay. For instance, if you were okay not knowing what I would know if I were around for the 1990s, you might not have told me what I would know if I were around for the 1990s. Which I was. I'm also not sure why you would assert what I would know...and then claim that it all comes down to opinion. It doesn't. There are facts at work here, we just don't know all of them. Which is why it's okay not to know things. 

[chrisco37]

On 8/11/2018 at 8:08 PM, Chillax23 said:

Top 20????

i would say easily top 5 if not top 3 IMO.  # 1 and #5 and then #48 for me but I could see the argument for #4 (12, 2, 3 are also great)  

i think FF48 is a top 20 Marvel Silver age book  

But I am a huge Surfer fan so may be a bit biased 

We’ve had the FF48 vs Hulk 180 conversation before.  The only thing those books have in common is seeing a character for the first time.

The entirety of FF48 is about the coming of Galactus.  Before you saw him, you knew who/what he was.  Wolverine popped in on one page.  No warning.

FF48 builds up to the Galactus appearance. When he finally appears on that last page, the only thing that’s a surprise is how he looks.  Kirby crushed it, of course.  

Wolverine just pops into a panel at the end.  No build up.

48 and 181 aren’t the same.

[cortown71]

Wolverine is mentioned as weapon x on page 3 the captain says' we have no choice but mobilize weapon x!'

So if you were reading the story,you'd be wondering who that was/is the whole time right?

[Howling Mad]

1 hour ago, JTLarsen said:

Which is why no one's saying it. And the same things that can fuel speculation can also fuel collectors...who want to get books for their PCs before the speculators run up the prices. I don't know how anyone would calculate what the ratio might be, but just the fact that there's a reason for a book to go up in value doesn't tell us whether that reason is motivating speculators more than collectors.

"Go up in value" is a bit misleading. Similar to FF1, "exploded" in value is much more accurate. Collectors and even causal readers have known about FF48 for years. Heck, wasn't it isn't hoarded at release?

There's no doubt that some of the purchases are collectors who want to get in before it's too late (probably a few months ago at this point). However you'd have to think the vast, vast majority of purchases at this point are speculation driven.

These individuals better hope that Disney/Marvel doesn't scrap all of their plans for the next 5-10 years, otherwise they'll be sitting on books that will quickly fall form grace (FF1 withstanding--that books been undervalued for years).

 

[VintageComics]

On 8/11/2018 at 11:00 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

On 8/11/2018 at 3:36 PM, VintageComics said:

They know because they buy the T-shirts for $20 in a local clothing store.

To be fair, a lot of kids know a song if you play it because they are exposed to much more music than we were as kids but they may not know the details if you quiz them on the bands.

One night my friend told everyone we met that I was Robert Plant. They would Google him, nod and agree that I was him.

But Plant had blonde hair ?

Are we really discussing this?

Plant was dirty blonde when he was young and it's brown and silver now. I just Googled him. We have nearly exactly the same color hair.

Back to FF #48's!

[VintageComics]

On 8/12/2018 at 8:28 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I disagree.  That is to say, both covers are awesome, and while it's easy to understand why any particular collector would like one more than the other, I don't think either one is far superior to the other.

I love the concept behind the cover to #48 -- the normally impassive Watcher is terrified, and the threat of Galactus is so immense that it can't be contained on the cover.  It begs the reader to buy the book and read it to find out just what has the Watcher and the FF cowering like that.  I am struggling to think of any other character -- hero or villain -- that was ever introduced like this.  So I see #48 as yet another brilliant stroke by Kirby (with at least some credit to Lee, who at a bare minimum had to give his editorial blessing for this cover to see print).

 

Yeah, I don't rate the cover to FF #49 higher than 48 either. Always loved #48.

[ExNihilo]

As far as Fantastic Four/Silver Surfer related covers go and ignoring the value of the books, I always liked FF#72 more than 48.

[Mr bla bla]

12 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Obviously not well known enough if you don't know that his actual name is Paste Pot Pete.     

Ok - Pot Pete Paste.

you happy?

[bronze johnny]

7 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Yeah, I don't rate the cover to FF #49 higher than 48 either. Always loved #48.

Same here. 48 is a cover that invites the imagination. Looking at the cover for the first time and one wonders what are they looking at? Who or what is Galactus? A little thinking is required for who or what Galactus is until we open the book and read the story and see Galactus at the end. 

Given the harm mankind is causing the environment, perhaps the Watcher and FF are looking at the person looking at them? Have we become Galactus, devouring the planet ?? Where soars the Silver Surfer when we need him?

[JTLarsen]

10 hours ago, Howling Mad said:

"Go up in value" is a bit misleading. Similar to FF1, "exploded" in value is much more accurate. Collectors and even causal readers have known about FF48 for years. Heck, wasn't it isn't hoarded at release?

There's no doubt that some of the purchases are collectors who want to get in before it's too late (probably a few months ago at this point). However you'd have to think the vast, vast majority of purchases at this point are speculation driven.

These individuals better hope that Disney/Marvel doesn't scrap all of their plans for the next 5-10 years, otherwise they'll be sitting on books that will quickly fall form grace (FF1 withstanding--that books been undervalued for years).

 

"Exploded" is a metaphor. "Go up in value" is not. So, I'm comfortable with the relative accuracies there. "Doubled" or "tripled," if true, would obviously be a lot more accurate than either. Ninety-nine percent of the world has never heard of Fantastic Four #48. 

I, for one, would not have to think that the vast, vast majority of purchases are speculation driven, given the meager polling that's been done on this issue. Does it make sense to point out reasons to suspect speculative motives? Sure. We just don't have the facts to draw conclusions.