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So Marvel is renumbering books AGAIN and abandoning the Legacy numbers for some books
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118 posts in this topic

21 hours ago, Lonzilla said:

Jeff Lemire writing The Sentry, count me in for that. If it's even half as good as his Moon Knight and Thanos runs, it'll be worth the $4 or $5 every issue

I'm really surprised to see Lemire back. My understanding was that he quit on his exclusive a year or so back because he hated being there. So him coming back is a little surprising. Maybe it's the new boss. 

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22 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I don't think it's as much Cebulski's fault as it is Quesada and Brevoort.  You can't blame Cebulski for coming in and wanting to do things fresh his way.

I think it's a combination of Brevoort & David Gabriel. 

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23 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I don't think it's as much Cebulski's fault as it is Quesada and Brevoort.  You can't blame Cebulski for coming in and wanting to do things fresh his way.

Was Legacy numbering still part of Alonso's regime?  I knew #1's were coming,  we all knew they would come eventually.    I was just expecting Legacy to last more than a handful of issues. 

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13 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

Was Legacy numbering still part of Alonso's regime?  I knew #1's were coming,  we all knew they would come eventually.    I was just expecting Legacy to last more than a handful of issues. 

I think we all knew #1's were returning at some point, but like you, I was expecting Legacy to last longer.  At the very least, I would have expected the stories teased in Legacy #1 would play out over the next few years, similar to how the events of Rebirth are still being told bit by bit.

"Fresh Start" feels like a very sudden stop and pivot...like something's gone wrong and you're quickly trying to change the story/rhetoric.

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7 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

like something's gone wrong

Well with the debacle of Secret Empire, forced diversity, and eliminating the mainstays....only to have the VP David Gabriel blame the readers for slumping sales, I would say plenty was going wrong.   I think the last 6 years under Alonso at Marvel, will go down as some of the more forgettable years they ever had.   This includes the 1990's.   Hopefully they can turn this around (and not reboot every 21 issues with a new #1).

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5 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

Well with the debacle of Secret Empire, forced diversity, and eliminating the mainstays....only to have the VP David Gabriel blame the readers for slumping sales, I would say plenty was going wrong.   I think the last 6 years under Alonso at Marvel, will go down as some of the more forgettable years they ever had.   This includes the 1990's.   Hopefully they can turn this around (and not reboot every 21 issues with a new #1).

Personally, regarding the issue of forced diversity, I think A) fans don't like change and B) they're using diversity as an excuse when really it's just poor storytelling.  I mean, look at Thor and Miles Morales as examples.  Changes to the classic white/male formula but are backed with solid storytelling.  The end result is that asides from a few people complaining, most people are okay with the change.  I for one have really enjoyed exploring the story of a woman grappling with her impending death while still possessing the power of a god.

Then you get Riri and whomever else and I think a lot of the blame is due to poor writing.  I guess that's where the "forced" part comes into play (as in forcing the writers in a certain direction as well as forcing the readers to read drek).

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2 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

Personally, regarding the issue of forced diversity, I think A) fans don't like change and B) they're using diversity as an excuse when really it's just poor storytelling.  I mean, look at Thor and Miles Morales as examples.  Changes to the classic white/male formula but are backed with solid storytelling.  The end result is that asides from a few people complaining, most people are okay with the change.  I for one have really enjoyed exploring the story of a woman grappling with her impending death while still possessing the power of a god.

Then you get Riri and whomever else and I think a lot of the blame is due to poor writing.  I guess that's where the "forced" part comes into play (as in forcing the writers in a certain direction as well as forcing the readers to read drek).

This is partially the case. But it's got a lot to do with the forced nature of it all. Shuffling every single classic character off the stage at the same time to replace them with a cheap dollar store GoBots-esque replica, and drastically changing the tone/character/etc of the few remaining single characters (Pete is suddenly Tony Stark, Steve suddenly a Nazi, Inhumans suddenly replacing the X-Men as the hated & feared minority) all that the EXACT same time basically left a Marvel that was unrecognizable. Mix that with the Tumblr level fan-fic writers & the mid-grade DeviantArt level artists and a disregard for any continuity pre-Dark Reign or so and it feels like you're being asked to pay $4 for some generic knock-off "Morvel Comix (made by the makers of the hit Tweenage Alien Samurai Tortoise!)" instead of buying Marvel Comics and expected to buy that everything is the same or better. And when you refused to swallow the lie, editorial & creative tells you that you're a terrible person. 

Like, it feels like from about 2012 thru now, Marvel has been trolling its own readers; upping the ante every year & getting more defensive at the same time when anyone tries to point out that it feels like they're trolling.  

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Disney controls the movie and merch aspect of things but Marcel comics has functioned on it's own even after Disney bought them. Disney doesn't hire, fire, or direct anything to do with Marvel Comics. However, if it can't make a profit and the comics sell less and less then Disney WILL step in and begin overseeing operations. 

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Disney is currently producing & developing plans for Marvel attractions in Disneyland & their European properties (can't do Disney World due to Universal Studios agreement).  So you can believe they have an interest in the Marvel property staying strong both movie & in print.  

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I hate when they relaunch but such is the lay of the land nowadays...

However, they should keep the legacy numbering on the cover along with the new relaunch number...

satisfy the fanboys and the veterans Marvel!

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14 minutes ago, D-Optimist said:

I hate when they relaunch but such is the lay of the land nowadays...

However, they should keep the legacy numbering on the cover along with the new relaunch number...

satisfy the fanboys and the veterans Marvel!

They are:

https://www.newsarama.com/38724-marvel-s-fresh-start-to-have-dual-issue-numbers.html

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On 2018-03-07 at 9:36 PM, ExNihilo said:

I think we all knew #1's were returning at some point, but like you, I was expecting Legacy to last longer.  At the very least, I would have expected the stories teased in Legacy #1 would play out over the next few years, similar to how the events of Rebirth are still being told bit by bit.

"Fresh Start" feels like a very sudden stop and pivot...like something's gone wrong and you're quickly trying to change the story/rhetoric.

This is classic Marvel thinking of late.  ‘Oh, no, Legacy has been running THREE MONTHS and orders haven’t doubled!  We need to do something!’

Just take a consistent approach, and return the characters to the form that led to their popularity in the first place.2c

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51 minutes ago, 500Club said:

This is classic Marvel thinking of late.  ‘Oh, no, Legacy has been running THREE MONTHS and orders haven’t doubled!  We need to do something!’

Just take a consistent approach, and return the characters to the form that led to their popularity in the first place.2c

They did that with Spider-man for Brand New Day, and that's what led me to give up on Marvel altogether.

The underlying problem is that their branding is their characters, so they need them to be recognizable. But as a monthly publisher, they also need their characters to change in order to tell interesting stories. These two things are at odds with each other. Personally I think Marvel would be better off going a "New 52" route and restart everything from scratch every so often. They could have done that with the Ultimate line. They should have let that replace the original line; then they could have let the characters from the original line have their stories come to some logical conclusion, rather than continuously shoving them back to the status quo. Then in another 20 years you start up a new line that's more in line with society then. Then each new #1 would actually mean something. 

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5 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:
6 hours ago, 500Club said:

This is classic Marvel thinking of late.  ‘Oh, no, Legacy has been running THREE MONTHS and orders haven’t doubled!  We need to do something!’

Just take a consistent approach, and return the characters to the form that led to their popularity in the first place.2c

They did that with Spider-man for Brand New Day, and that's what led me to give up on Marvel altogether.

The underlying problem is that their branding is their characters, so they need them to be recognizable. But as a monthly publisher, they also need their characters to change in order to tell interesting stories. These two things are at odds with each other. Personally I think Marvel would be better off going a "New 52" route and restart everything from scratch every so often. They could have done that with the Ultimate line. They should have let that replace the original line; then they could have let the characters from the original line have their stories come to some logical conclusion, rather than continuously shoving them back to the status quo. Then in another 20 years you start up a new line that's more in line with society then. Then each new #1 would actually mean something. 

I was thinking more in terms of getting back to the essence of the characters.  I’d agree that BND was a bit too much of a deus-ex-machina finger snap.

Ideally, just get Peter Parker back to an everyman trying to deal with the responsibility of being Spider-Man, while trying to manage day to day life. 

At this point, though, they may have muddied the water so much that your solution may be the only realistic one.

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