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When you overpay - does it need to be a grail?
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The other day - I had a great email exchange with a fellow collector - regarding the possible purchase of a piece of art.   The price he wanted for the piece was more than I think it was worth (possibly double or triple) -but I could have managed by selling off a bunch of other art.  As part of the discussion - I came to realize that while I loved the image - it was not a real grail for me. It had excellent art by an artist I liked with characters I adore - but for me a grail (personal grail) needs to have nostalgia.   I have overpaid on many occasions over the years -usually because of lack of knowledge.  The times I overpaid knowingly and with no regrets was when I found a nostalgic grail.  A piece of art that I loved when I saw/read the comic back in the day -and now had a chance to own the original.

All this is to ask the question - when you knowingly overpay - does it need to be a grail?

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27 minutes ago, Panelfan1 said:

The other day - I had a great email exchange with a fellow collector - regarding the possible purchase of a piece of art.   The price he wanted for the piece was more than I think it was worth (possibly double or triple) -but I could have managed by selling off a bunch of other art.  As part of the discussion - I came to realize that while I loved the image - it was not a real grail for me. It had excellent art by an artist I liked with characters I adore - but for me a grail (personal grail) needs to have nostalgia.   I have overpaid on many occasions over the years -usually because of lack of knowledge.  The times I overpaid knowingly and with no regrets was when I found a nostalgic grail.  A piece of art that I loved when I saw/read the comic back in the day -and now had a chance to own the original.

All this is to ask the question - when you knowingly overpay - does it need to be a grail?

grail is a strong word, and overpaying is relative.  So if are talking "real money" (which for me is a few thousand) I would not overpay unless it was "grailish"

However, if we are talking something cheap, like a $25 page that it would take $100 to buy, I would do it if it hits a nostalgic sweet spot.  As well, if I like it, I could spend $100 on a page that is worth only $5 (or $0) with little hesitation.

Malvin

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24 minutes ago, malvin said:

grail is a strong word, and overpaying is relative.  So if are talking "real money" (which for me is a few thousand) I would not overpay unless it was "grailish"

However, if we are talking something cheap, like a $25 page that it would take $100 to buy, I would do it if it hits a nostalgic sweet spot.  As well, if I like it, I could spend $100 on a page that is worth only $5 (or $0) with little hesitation.

Malvin

yeah - talking real money.

not sure how you all feel - but after collecting art - a lot of everyday items/things seem like a bargain. $1000 for a sofa? $2000 for a fridge? etc.. etc.. it all seems cheap compared to a thin piece of paper with some ink on it. so yeah $25 item at $100 is not a conversation.

again - the question was personal  (in the sense that we all collect stuff for ourselves)- so when I say grail - I mean a personal grail. something that is important to you with nostalgia attached? and overpaying is  either hundreds or thousands of dollars (depending on your level of collecting.

question arose -this way - lets say I spend 10k on grail or $10k on a  non-grail. in both cases I am spending 10k. lets assume again that both items are overpriced - I personally can feel better spending the same amount, and in fact overpaying if I am getting a nostalgic 'grail'.

 

 

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If it’s a piece you’ve been seeking for some time and means a lot to you, I don’t see how you can overpay. That being said there has to be some logic or resonable amount. But if it’s going on your wall and not to be sold until you’re gone or dire straits, then I don’t think overpaying makes a difference.

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I would have thought that for most, overpaying happens a fair amount.   I have overpaid for non-grail items often. 

For me, there are no predefined rules and the amount of overpaying is based on the specifics of each purchase  but loosely is mostly affected by how much I want the piece (which usually factors in nostalgia).  I also look at it more from a dollar perspective than from a percentage perspective (so paying 2x or 3x as a percentage multiple is not a factor at lower price points if I really want the piece).  And of course for grail-like items, the amount that you are willing to overpay increases considerably.

 

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I've overpaid for items in the past and the good news is that I never regretted it.  Typically, years later the prices caught up and I ended up doing OK.  What I have regretted is not picking up certain pieces because I thought they were overpriced at the time and then years later, I would have to pay multiples of that price to get them.  With art, you never know when a piece will come around again so what you have to ask yourself is 1) do you like the piece?; 2) will you regret it if you don't pick it up?; 3) do you think the piece will still appreciate in years to come and/or are you willing to take a loss on the piece when you go to sell it?

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It absolutely needs to be a grail for me to overpay.  Generally, I never really get rid of anything, so the price almost always catches up for me.  But a few years ago I hemorrhaged blood for a piece and I don't think the price will ever catch up for what I paid, because I was so blinded by the nostalgic connection.  I was just not thinking straight or rationally.   

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2 hours ago, Flambit said:

It absolutely needs to be a grail for me to overpay.  Generally, I never really get rid of anything, so the price almost always catches up for me.  But a few years ago I hemorrhaged blood for a piece and I don't think the price will ever catch up for what I paid, because I was so blinded by the nostalgic connection.  I was just not thinking straight or rationally.   

But do you love it? Or do you look at it and say "what was I thinking"? That's the real measure of whether you overpaid or not.

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Will I overspend for a piece of art? Yes. Does it happen often? No. Does it have to be a “grail”? No. I tend to look at the term grail differently than a lot in this hobby. From what I gather, grail is a term used rather loosely so when I say it doesn’t have to be a grail, others may call it one in their eyes. Does it have to be a piece I really want in order to overpay? Absolutely yes. To pay a lot over FMV … it has to be a piece that I really want (and can’t stomach the idea of losing out on the chance to own it). I don’t run into many pieces that fall into this category. IF the price is too high, I usually pass as I know something else will come along that will be priced more reasonably. I actually passed on a piece of art that falls squarely into the top tier of what I look for due to the fact that is was priced 3-4X of FMV. It was a page I wanted very badly but I refused to be fleeced. At the time of passing, I felt I might regret it but as time has gone by I actually feel better about passing.

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I think perceived opportunity has a lot to do with it for most collectors.

So, it may not be a grail, but you're going to get 1 shot at a page by Yuckity Shmuckity drawing Groovy McPokeyClaws.  Everyone knows that his stuff is just not out there for sale.  So if you get the opportunity, you better go pay whatever it takes to get it.

But if you are going after a mid-level Kriby?  Why would you over pay?  there's stacks of the stuff.

Edited by Pete Marino
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The first advice I ever received when I got into collection OA was "buy what you like and don't look back".  These are unique pieces so if it's something I really want OR part of a deal with someone I really like, I don't mind stepping up and paying a premium.. It may be the only chance I get. 

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43 minutes ago, BrianHoward said:

The first advice I ever received when I got into collection OA was "buy what you like and don't look back".  These are unique pieces so if it's something I really want OR part of a deal with someone I really like, I don't mind stepping up and paying a premium.. It may be the only chance I get. 

This is very true for sure but for me, it has to be "Buy what you love and don't look back" ... I have bought plenty of art that I like that exhausted funds that caused me to have to pass on a later piece that came by that I loved. 

Premium is also relative to each person's tolerance. How much a person is willing to overpay varies and we all have a line we won't cross. It is probably why so many of us can't stand the Cool Lines "business" model and pricing. 

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With only a couple of exceptions, I've overpaid for every d*amned piece of art I have.  I only buy art that I love (in my collecting philosophy there is no such thing as a grail, a term I really dislike in this hobby), and I only buy art that are examples of what I consider to be the best available example by a given artist and/or title within price ranges that I can afford.  I definitely have a quality over quantity mindset.  And in all those times I've overpaid, I've never regretted it.  Not once.  And that's what works for me.  Don't spend money that should be spent on rent/mortgage, food, education, retirement, etc.  Otherwise, all bets are off and to the victor go the spoils. 

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I've overpaid for items in my collection, but whenever I have overpaid its been when I've bought from the artist directly. Maybe its a skewed rationale, but if I'm going to overpay someone for the work, it's the person who created it versus another collector or unaffiliated dealer down the line. I don't have any regrets about it either, though I don't think I've overpaid by double or triple FMV, so maybe that makes it sting a bit less. As others have mentioned, buy what you love and as long as you're not putting rent/food/retirement on the line to do it, then have fun with it. 

 

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8 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

But do you love it? Or do you look at it and say "what was I thinking"? That's the real measure of whether you overpaid or not.

Such a mix of emotions, but I love it.  Couldn't have lived with myself if I had let it go.  So the good outweighs the bad, ultimately. 

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4 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

With only a couple of exceptions, I've overpaid for every d*amned piece of art I have.  I only buy art that I love (in my collecting philosophy there is no such thing as a grail, a term I really dislike in this hobby), and I only buy art that are examples of what I consider to be the best available example by a given artist and/or title within price ranges that I can afford.  I definitely have a quality over quantity mindset.  And in all those times I've overpaid, I've never regretted it.  Not once.  And that's what works for me.  Don't spend money that should be spent on rent/mortgage, food, education, retirement, etc.  Otherwise, all bets are off and to the victor go the spoils. 

Yes. Exactly! All my best stuff, the stuff that I truly love, was always overpaying for. Almost across the board, probably 15 of my top 20 pieces will be in that situation of paying more than the market, more than other people, pushing prices, and biting the bullet and never regretting it.

In most cases, the market eventually caught up to me and made it seem a bargain. In a few cases, it never did, but I still never regretted it. This stuff is so unique, if you truly love it, you need to chase it. You won't get the chance again.

And strangely, it almost makes me love it more because I overpaid. It's like rescuing a puppy from the pound and being like, "I know nobody loved you the way I love you, so here's a good home where nobody will ever try to flip you*".

* - Please do not attempt to flip puppies. They get dizzy.

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I've overpaid for one item (and by this I mean really overpaid and not just by a few hundred dollars). That one item is the only piece of art I have never tried to sell in my modest collection. I paid the asking price because I love it and daily enjoy looking at it framed on my wall.

Edited by artistlost
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1 hour ago, artistlost said:

I've overpaid for one item (and by this I mean really overpaid and not just by a few hundred dollars). That one item is the only piece of art I have never tried to sell in my modest collection. I paid the asking price because I love it and daily enjoy looking at it framed on my wall.

Curious...what did you get?

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