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So what issue is the real 1st app of Red Goblin?
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Started by El Rey Comics,

378 posts in this topic

jcjames

jcjames

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

DPSW2 is a variant. There is no connection to the book, unlike the others.

Lim is not just a regular cover-variant like DPSW2 - it's limited 1:XX ratio incentive variant, hence harder to find (lower supply, higher pricepoint)

That's the difference.

Otherwise, then why is HTD1 ("1st Gwenpool Appearance") sketch-cover variant less desired and less valued than DPSW2 Gwenpool variant?

They're both regular (non-incentive) variants but DPSW2 Gwenpool-cover variant is selling for 6X more (raw) than the HTD1 Gwenpool-sketch variant even though it's not 6X harder to find.

Lim has additionally-inflated values due to much more limited quantities, not just because of "1st Appearance".

 

 

Edited by jcjames
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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jcjames said:

Lim is not just a regular cover-variant like DPSW2 - it's limited 1:XX ratio incentive variant, hence harder to find (lower supply, higher pricepoint)

That's the difference.

Otherwise, then why is HTD1 ("1st Gwenpool Appearance") sketch-cover variant less desired and less valued than DPSW2 Gwenpool variant?

They're both regular (non-incentive) variants but DPSW2 Gwenpool-cover variant is selling for 6X more (raw) than the HTD1 Gwenpool-sketch variant even though it's not 6X harder to find.

Lim has additionally-inflated values due to much more limited quantities, not just because of "1st Appearance".

 

 

The sketch cover is a 2nd print.

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jcjames

jcjames

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

The sketch cover is a 2nd print.

Oh, right. Der.

 

But still, the "Gwenpool" character first "appears" on the cover of DPSSW2 before anywhere else.

It's so muddy.

I blame Wolverine.

Or should we blame Jimmy Olsen?

 

 

Edited by jcjames
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darkstar

darkstar

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11 hours ago, jcjames said:

hm

Weren't the Lim and Conner variants harder to find (like 1:50 and 1:30)? HTF variants of "1st appearance" in a story are valued more than the common-as-dirt Cover-As of that same issue, and I suppose the same could be said for very-common "1st covers".

Things are getting more blurred though.

 

 

 

 

They aren't blurred. You need to specify what you are asking. Are you asking which book will be considered the first appearance or which book among the character's earliest appearances will be the most valuable? Those are two different questions and commonly return two different answers when the character in question was created at a time that variants were common. If you are asking which book will be considered the first appearance, you need to specify first appearance according to whom.

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darkstar

darkstar

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2 hours ago, jcjames said:

Otherwise, then why is HTD1 ("1st Gwenpool Appearance") sketch-cover variant less desired and less valued than DPSW2 Gwenpool variant?

Because rarity trumps content in regards to first appearances in the modern age.

Also congratulations, you have found an undervalued book if you believe Gwenpool will continue to be popular.

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jcjames

jcjames

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1 hour ago, darkstar said:

Because rarity trumps content in regards to first appearances in the modern age.

Also congratulations, you have found an undervalued book if you believe Gwenpool will continue to be popular.

Rarity trumps content in the modern age. Yep.

 

FWIW, I cashed out of most of my Gwenpool stock near the peak.  :cool:

 

 

 

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jcjames

jcjames

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Posted
1 hour ago, darkstar said:

They aren't blurred. You need to specify what you are asking. Are you asking which book will be considered the first appearance or which book among the character's earliest appearances will be the most valuable? Those are two different questions and commonly return two different answers when the character in question was created at a time that variants were common. If you are asking which book will be considered the first appearance, you need to specify first appearance according to whom.

Absolutely.

The "blurring" is the question of what's a 1st appearance (ties in with the OP regarding Red Goblin), and a tangent is why a 1st appearance is not necessarily more desirable/valuable than a 2nd appearance.

Your last point in bold underscores the "blurry" part.

 

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darkstar

darkstar

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21 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Absolutely.

The "blurring" is the question of what's a 1st appearance (ties in with the OP regarding Red Goblin), and a tangent is why a 1st appearance is not necessarily more desirable/valuable than a 2nd appearance.

Your last point in bold underscores the "blurry" part.

 

But it isn't blurry. The low printed book with the best cover will be the most valuable. That doesn't necessarily make it the first appearance. The first appearance is a personal preference and usually comes down to whether one believes the first depiction of a character constitutes a first appearance or the first time the character appears in a story is the first appearance. If you would prefer to go by an accepted industry standard, which doesn't exist, then look at how Overstreet or CGC approaches it. You should stop using first appearance and most valuable appearance interchangeably, because they are not always one and the same. The market often uses first appearance out of convenience when referring to the most valuable book, because it is a nice quick way to reference a desirable issue. A later appearance is sometimes the more valuable because of a) scarcity b) content c) cover art d) sales history and e) market confidence, not necessarily in that order.

That retailer exclusive featuring the first depiction of the character is likely to become the most valuable book in contention for now. However, it is unlikely that CGC will award that book with a first appearance notation because it hurts their bottom line, as it is a retailer exclusive the small print run would limit the number of submissions that they would get. If CGC saves the first appearance notation for a later issue that features the character in the story, they will see more revenue as the number of submissions will increase since the print run will be much larger for a regular first printing that it would be for an exclusive variant. If a later issue does receive the first appearance notation and that issue also has a retailer exclusive or incentive variant with decent cover art then it will likely be more valuable than the earlier issue retailer exclusive that only features a depiction of the character on the cover.

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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, jcjames said:

Oh, right. Der.

 

But still, the "Gwenpool" character first "appears" on the cover of DPSSW2 before anywhere else.

It's so muddy.

I blame Wolverine.

Or should we blame Jimmy Olsen?

 

 

The thing is you have companies "deciding" for the market. It used to be Overstreet, now it's grading companies.

Hulk 180 has a last page splash of Wolverine. CGC label "1st appearance in cameo"

Now, the recently released Avengers #675 has the EXACT same situation. Last page splash of Voyager. CGC label "1st appearance of Voyager"

:makepoint:

 

Edited by ygogolak
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kairos70

kairos70

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Posted

IMO, I keep thinking Slott is going to throw readers for a loop. Norman will be the Green Goblin again but the Red Goblin might be someone else. Its frustrating how its dragging out but I always loved Spidey/Goblin battles just like I enjoy Batman vs The Joker. Never gets old to me.

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jcjames

jcjames

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On 2/27/2018 at 11:46 AM, darkstar said:

But it isn't blurry. The low printed book with the best cover will be the most valuable. That doesn't necessarily make it the first appearance. The first appearance is a personal preference and usually comes down to whether one believes the first depiction of a character constitutes a first appearance or the first time the character appears in a story is the first appearance. If you would prefer to go by an accepted industry standard, which doesn't exist, then look at how Overstreet or CGC approaches it. hm(shrug)You should stop using first appearance and most valuable appearance interchangeably, because they are not always one and the same. The market often uses first appearance out of convenience when referring to the most valuable book, because it is a nice quick way to reference a desirable issue. A later appearance is sometimes the more valuable because of a) scarcity b) content c) cover art d) sales history and e) market confidence, not necessarily in that order.

That retailer exclusive featuring the first depiction of the character is likely to become the most valuable book in contention for now. However, it is unlikely that CGC will award that book with a first appearance notation because it hurts their bottom line, as it is a retailer exclusive the small print run would limit the number of submissions that they would get. If CGC saves the first appearance notation for a later issue that features the character in the story, they will see more revenue as the number of submissions will increase since the print run will be much larger for a regular first printing that it would be for an exclusive variant. If a later issue does receive the first appearance notation and that issue also has a retailer exclusive or incentive variant with decent cover art then it will likely be more valuable than the earlier issue retailer exclusive that only features a depiction of the character on the cover.

Part in red: Ah, so there's where the "third-party grading" comes in right? :grin:

 

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ygogolak

ygogolak

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Just now, tv horror said:

Yes however it will led to the Red Goblin as it even proclaims no more Green only Red!

So how is that panel showing the Red Goblin as you proclaimed?
Also, maybe it will, maybe it won't. There hasn't been a comic with the Red Goblin in the story released yet.

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