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What's up with Rob Liefeld? No CGC?
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438 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, TYPE-R said:

RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work? Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"? We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them. They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices.

AMEN!

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1 hour ago, TYPE-R said:

RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work?

Respect doesn't work that way just because you are his fan does not mean the creator has to respect you.

1 hour ago, TYPE-R said:

Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work?

Always keep a receipt and a written record of the agreed upon service done through email. If the artist refuses to honor ask for a refund or refuse the work.

 

1 hour ago, TYPE-R said:

Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"?

As long as they tell you up front "For Ebay" and or "Do Not Slab" will be written on the book and gave you the option, then they respected your property enough to give you that warning and left you an option for their service or not.

 

1 hour ago, TYPE-R said:

We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them.

HaHaHaHa There is always enough fans to replace the ones that leave. It's like thinking you are indispensable at a work place unless you are the owner you are dispensable.

 

2 hours ago, TYPE-R said:

They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices.

Maybe they think your behavior is rude. Greedy practices? Hmm if they care more about money than fans that is their business not yours. Maybe they want to make sure they have enough money for retirement and know there is only so long to bring it in before they are not as popular as they once were. Maybe it is disgruntled fans who think they are entitled to something they are not actually entitled making the business not fun for others to quit. If you don't like it then don't participate in it. If that is what the creator wants is money if the item is being submitted then that is their choice and entitled to, your thoughts on is none of their business as to what happens to the item afterwards and why are they asking you upfront is their right. They have the right to refuse to serve you which is the action of signing the comic

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3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:
2 hours ago, TYPE-R said:

RESPECT is a two way street between creator and fan. Where's the RESPECT when an artist agrees to a sketch opp then comes back 3 months later and demands more money or else they'll do half the work?

Respect doesn't work that way just because you are his fan does not mean the creator has to respect you.

It doesn't? That's an odd way to look at mutual respect.

3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:
2 hours ago, TYPE-R said:

Where is the RESPECT when a writer signs a book "For Ebay"?

As long as they tell you up front "For Ebay" and or "Do Not Slab" will be written on the book and gave you the option, then they respected your property enough to give you that warning and left you an option for their service or not.

That's not what happened. You're making statements concerning matters about which you are not informed.

 

5 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:
2 hours ago, TYPE-R said:

We are their consumers and they need us a lot more then we need them.

HaHaHaHa There is always enough fans to replace the ones that leave. It's like thinking you are indispensable at a work place unless you are the owner you are dispensable.

Really...? Guess you weren't buying comics in the late 90's/early 00's...?

6 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:
2 hours ago, TYPE-R said:

They're so worried about ebay and flippers they don't realize that they're pushing more people into those markets or away form the hobby altogether with their rude behavior and greedy practices.

Maybe they think your behavior is rude. Greedy practices? Hmm if they care more about money than fans that is their business not yours. Maybe they want to make sure they have enough money for retirement and know there is only so long to bring it in before they are not as popular as they once were.

So, it's the fans' responsibility to subsidize someone's retirement...? How about creating something that people want, and are happy to pay you for...? 

Aas far as "maybe they think your behavior is rude", perhaps. I daresay, however, that I've never seen anyone ask a creator how they intend to spend the money they were paid for signing. THAT would be rude. And yet...that's exactly what these creators are doing: asking you what you intend to do with YOUR property!

Wait, who's being rude again...?

9 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Maybe it is disgruntled fans who think they are entitled to something they are not actually entitled making the business not fun for others to quit. If you don't like it then don't participate in it.

Yes, the ever popular "if you don't like it, don't do it!" line. Never do the people making these statements consider the truth: that the reason people complain is because they DO like it, but don't think it's being done as well as it could be. No, no, that's never considered. "Shut up and quit complaining. If you don't like it, go somewhere else."

 

10 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

If that is what the creator wants is money if the item is being submitted then that is their choice and entitled to, your thoughts on is none of their business as to what happens to the item afterwards and why are they asking you upfront is their right. They have the right to refuse to serve you which is the action of signing the comic

Yes, yes, you've said this over and over and over again, and no one is disputing it. However, you keep saying something that is not accurate. It is not their right to know what you intend to do with your property. No one has that right, so long as what you intend to do is legal. They have the right to ASK...but they don't have the right to KNOW. And, if I say "none of your business", that IS my right, because it's none of their business. Does that mean they can refuse to sign? Of course.

But they shouldn't be asking in the first place. It's rude, intrusive, and no one's business but the property owner's.

And in the real world...the world not populated by addicts afraid of being cut off...and I certainly admit, I'm in that camp...such a question would NEVER be tolerated. Who do you think you are, asking me what I am going to do with my property? Mind your own damn business!

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RMA beat me to it but I'd like to add,

20 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Hmm if they care more about money than fans that is their business not yours.

So I shouldn't care about a creators business but they can care about mine? It's my book, I bought it, I paid for the sig. What I choose to do with the book is my business not theirs.

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5 hours ago, Celestial Comics said:

It is the “right” of the creator to charge IF that is what they choose to do.

As for are we a facilitator who “encourages” creators to “charge extra” for CGC? The answer is we “RESPECT” the creator’s rights and decision to want to charge a fee. It is THEIR right and THEIR decision to charge a fee. We don’t encourage or discourage it. We simple RESPECT it. We make nothing more from a creator who chooses to charge a fee, we simply pass the same charge onto the customer.

Just as it is YOUR right to choose NOT to pay the fee and to walk away from getting you items signed. And we RESPECT that right as well.

What you DON’T have a right to do, is LIE to a creator when he asks you the question if the book he is signing will be graded or not. It is because of actions like that, that has caused creators to do what they do, such as using specific facilitators or handlers to PROTECT them.

If we brought our own witness from the CGC booth, would we be allowed to just ask for a signature at the "signature only" rate then? 
Because if the creator thinks that they can charge the extra fee to people who CGC their books because it creates extra work for them, then by that logic if I DID ALLTHE WORK INVOLVED MYSELF, then I should be able to get the signature at the lower cost, right? 

The point that's trying to be made here is that the creators have been TRICKED into thinking that people who slab their books are all selling those items on eBay.  They've also been tricked into thinking that they are ENTITLED a share of the profits from any possible future sale of a slabbed book.  Does the person who painted your house get a share of the profit from final sale price when you sell it down the line?  No. They charge you the price to paint everything and they reap thier profits from THAT pool of cash, not ask for a second stab at it because you MIGHT sell the house. 

I agree that they should be able to charge more IF AND ONLY IF they make special arrangements for something like a "private signing" or something like Todd McFarlane or Jim Lee often does - there is an obvious additional cost involved there.  But if they DO charge more, they should be charging EVERYONE more, not just slabbers.  Just because I want to have my book graded for longevity, authenticity, and display, what is supposed to entitle a creator to extra profit on that item? Why should you get a slice of the profit?  And that's THE ONLY other possible rationale that they could be using to charge more to sign their name on a book that is going to be graded.  That's not really how is supposed to work, and that's not how it worked for the first 10-15 years that CGC existed, why has it suddenly changed?  Your blind support of this as their "right" to charge one person more for the exact same thing is wrong-headed and complicit.  

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to condense the conversation down a little so it's easier to understand how these creators have been tricked by not being challenged on this practice.  It's allowed the LIE to persist.  That's all.

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12 minutes ago, RadiantGraphix said:

 

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to condense the conversation down a little so it's easier to understand how these creators have been tricked by not being challenged on this practice.  It's allowed the LIE to persist.  That's all.

They have been tricked in your mind. You are not being confrontational more of entitled feeling coming from you.

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3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

They have been tricked in your mind. You are not being confrontational more of entitled feeling coming from you.

I guess we know who's swallowed the blue pill, and who's swallowed the red pill here.  (And who's read the entire thread, and who hasn't)

Edited by RadiantGraphix
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3 hours ago, RadiantGraphix said:

If we brought our own witness from the CGC booth, would we be allowed to just ask for a signature at the "signature only" rate then? 
Because if the creator thinks that they can charge the extra fee to people who CGC their books because it creates extra work for them, then by that logic if I DID ALLTHE WORK INVOLVED MYSELF, then I should be able to get the signature at the lower cost, right? 

The point that's trying to be made here is that the creators have been TRICKED into thinking that people who slab their books are all selling those items on eBay.  They've also been tricked into thinking that they are ENTITLED a share of the profits from any possible future sale of a slabbed book.  Does the person who painted your house get a share of the profit from final sale price when you sell it down the line?  No. They charge you the price to paint everything and they reap thier profits from THAT pool of cash, not ask for a second stab at it because you MIGHT sell the house. 

I agree that they should be able to charge more IF AND ONLY IF they make special arrangements for something like a "private signing" or something like Todd McFarlane or Jim Lee often does - there is an obvious additional cost involved there.  But if they DO charge more, they should be charging EVERYONE more, not just slabbers.  Just because I want to have my book graded for longevity, authenticity, and display, what is supposed to entitle a creator to extra profit on that item? Why should you get a slice of the profit?  And that's THE ONLY other possible rationale that they could be using to charge more to sign their name on a book that is going to be graded.  That's not really how is supposed to work, and that's not how it worked for the first 10-15 years that CGC existed, why has it suddenly changed?  Your blind support of this as their "right" to charge one person more for the exact same thing is wrong-headed and complicit.  

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to condense the conversation down a little so it's easier to understand how these creators have been tricked by not being challenged on this practice.  It's allowed the LIE to persist.  That's all.

Right on, right on, right ON.

 

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