What's up with Rob Liefeld? No CGC? 4 4

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, Ryan. said:

RockyMountain is right. Two tiered pricing is killing the SS program, one twenty dollar bill at a time.

 

[RadiantGraphix]

15 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

John Denver - Rocky Mountain High (video/youtube)

This is my fault... I'm sorry... I need glasses.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I look at this, and I still giggle like a schoolgirl. Isn't that just the greatest book ever? I'm so very, very, very glad it's not worth more. There were some leannnn times in the last couple of years, and I had to sell some treasures.

But damn, isn't that just the shiz?

There's an awesome scene in this book where starts taking off his Robin costume for the last time...and Terra wolf-whistles, and yells "take it off!" or somesuch...and says "this isn't a strip show."

And then, how Wolfman tied it all in with George almost 6 YEARS later with Year 3 and Lonely Place of Dying, and there was a "will he, won't he?" vibe to coming back after Jason was killed...and instead, officially passed the mantel forever, putting it in Tim's hands.

Ah. Magic. 

"Don't you see? Batman NEEDS a Robin!"

[RadiantGraphix]

8 hours ago, TooBadSoSad said:

I guess they need to grow up and get a real job 

 

... not the point at all.  Good job missing everything said over the last 122 comments. Bravo. 

[reddwarf666222]

52 minutes ago, RadiantGraphix said:

... not the point at all.  Good job missing everything said over the last 122 comments. Bravo. 

You still lost your argument

[RadiantGraphix]

13 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

You still lost your argument

... because he made a point about something off topic and unrelated?  Wow.  The mental gymnastics you must perform to get through your daily life is astounding. Perfect 10’s, bro. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, RadiantGraphix said:

... not the point at all.  Good job missing everything said over the last 122 comments. Bravo. 

That's just Stu, who thinks that creators are gods, and should be worshiped like gods, and if they want to charge you $700 for their sig because they don't like the way you smell, you shut up and pay it and get on your knees and bow down and be grateful that you, the lowly comics fan, were even graced by the very presence of holy royalty.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, reddwarf666222 said:

You still lost your argument

Mmmmm....I realize this isn't scientific, and just mentioning it will now skew the results, but just going off the number of "likes" received by all comments, I'd venture to say that that statement of yours isn't really very accurate. 

[Wilddragon]

I would like to add as a new person, this whole thread has been very informative and I feel like RMA deserves a round of applause because of how well he has framed everything. It is quite evident who has the valid point in this whole thing. I have the chance to meet Jae Lee next month. I hope he isn't a scumbag if I ask for a sketch cover to get slabbed, or a sig to get slabbed. Otherwise I feel I will be as jaded as RMA was when he encountered him. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

13 minutes ago, YUNo said:

<snip>

This will, as all Stu posts are, be deleted, but it really highlights the immensely bitter, vicious attitude he has. He knows that I don't want my full name plastered all over the internet, but he does it out of nothing but pure spite, because that's all that drives him: angry spite.

He is lawlessness personified.

[Logan510]

12 minutes ago, Wilddragon said:

I would like to add as a new person, this whole thread has been very informative and I feel like RMA deserves a round of applause because of how well he has framed everything. It is quite evident who has the valid point in this whole thing. I have the chance to meet Jae Lee next month. I hope he isn't a scumbag if I ask for a sketch cover to get slabbed, or a sig to get slabbed. Otherwise I feel I will be as jaded as RMA was when he encountered him. 

So if Jae Lee asks, he's a "scumbag"?

 

Wow

[Logan510]

[newshane]

32 minutes ago, Wilddragon said:

I would like to add as a new person, this whole thread has been very informative and I feel like RMA deserves a round of applause because of how well he has framed everything. It is quite evident who has the valid point in this whole thing. I have the chance to meet Jae Lee next month. I hope he isn't a scumbag if I ask for a sketch cover to get slabbed, or a sig to get slabbed. Otherwise I feel I will be as jaded as RMA was when he encountered him. 

I don't think Jae will be a "scumbag" at all.

I've directly inquired about a sketch via CGC and he was nothing but friendly, if a bit tardy, in response.

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 minutes ago, YUNo said:

26 minutes ago, Wilddragon said:

I would like to add as a new person, this whole thread has been very informative and I feel like RMA deserves a round of applause because of how well he has framed everything. It is quite evident who has the valid point in this whole thing. I have the chance to meet Jae Lee next month. I hope he isn't a scumbag if I ask for a sketch cover to get slabbed, or a sig to get slabbed. Otherwise I feel I will be as jaded as RMA was when he encountered him. 

Are you aware that Joe VanHagar sells CGC SS books for a living? You've been duped, you fell for it.

This is a great example of how a person will simply lie to advance their personal agenda of hate and revenge.

These are my quotes, from earlier in the thread:

Quote

Yes, I absolutely sell SS slabs. And yes, I have no problem with doing it. It helps fund my addiction, and gets odd, hard to find creators/books into the hands of other people like me. Submitting to CGC is EXPENSIVE. But I don't complain about it, because I don't count your money, if you don't count mine.

Quote

What I do with my books shouldn't matter to anyone else. Is it ANYONE'S business what I, or anyone else, does with our property? No.

Remember: publishers publish comic books for a living, printers print comic books for a living, distributors distribute comic books for a living, and retailers sell comic books for a living. Does all that mean that none of these people can't also be fans? Nope. And does it matter? Nope.

I tell you folks...if you can avoid crossing "Stu", I would do so. He's a genuine, real life "Alex Forrest", who has no problem trying to destroy you if you dare cross him. The only reason the rabbit hasn't ended up in the pot is because 1. I don't own a rabbit, and 2. he doesn't know where I live.

He says "Y U NO LIKE CAPITALISM", but he's too stupid to understand that that's not capitalism. It's socialism. "I don't think it's fair that (I think) you might make money off of me, so I'm going to charge a higher price because of that." That's the heart and soul of socialism. And trying to explain economics to someone who has spent their entire adult life high on pot is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, newshane said:

37 minutes ago, Wilddragon said:

I would like to add as a new person, this whole thread has been very informative and I feel like RMA deserves a round of applause because of how well he has framed everything. It is quite evident who has the valid point in this whole thing. I have the chance to meet Jae Lee next month. I hope he isn't a scumbag if I ask for a sketch cover to get slabbed, or a sig to get slabbed. Otherwise I feel I will be as jaded as RMA was when he encountered him. 

I don't think Jae will be a "scumbag" at all.

I've directly inquired about a sketch via CGC and he was nothing but friendly, if a bit tardy, in response.

I don't think so, either, He's a decent enough man, if a bit curt if he thinks you're "trying to make money off of him." But I wouldn't characterize him as a "scumbag." He's just one of those guys that, unfortunately, has an issue if he thinks anyone might be taking advantage of him, whether they actually are or not. I managed to negotiate with him on the books I was getting signed, but he, like everyone else before him, didn't have an answer that he was proud of when asked why he charged a different price. He knew it was wrong, but he mumbled something about "well, that's for people getting like, 10 copies of Dark Knight III signed." I didn't press the issue, but in my mind, I thought: what business is it of yours if someone wants to get 10,000 copies of Dark Knight III signed? Either you're willing to sign, or you are not. If someone else lawfully obtained those 10, or 10,000, copies, what business is it of Jae Lee's what they do with them? 

Jae Lee understands, at least on a basic level, that it's not cool.

[Logan510]

[Wilddragon]

I think I need to clarify what I mean by the scumbag comment. We are talking about creators charging a different price for services that will see an item get graded, over those that are not graded. It was mentioned my RMA that Jae was one of those that did this. In many of our opinions it is a rather greasy thing to do. I do not mean Jae Lee himself is a scumbag, rather his practices of charging different prices for the same service. Hopefully this clarifies things. My experience is limited, however with all writers, artists etc. I have met, I have yet to encounter anybody who is not a genuine and nice person. 

[Logan510]

17 minutes ago, Wilddragon said:

I think I need to clarify what I mean by the scumbag comment. We are talking about creators charging a different price for services that will see an item get graded, over those that are not graded. It was mentioned my RMA that Jae was one of those that did this. In many of our opinions it is a rather greasy thing to do. I do not mean Jae Lee himself is a scumbag, rather his practices of charging different prices for the same service. Hopefully this clarifies things. My experience is limited, however with all writers, artists etc. I have met, I have yet to encounter anybody who is not a genuine and nice person. 

I don't find the practice scummy. I need something from them and if I want it bad enough I'll pay for it, what some of them are doing is not illegal.

I feel for the collectors who're caught in the middle of this.

I do not feel bad for the flippers who're more upset about their bottom line being affected 

The market should eventually correct itself and if creators are seeing their profits go down I imagine they'll adjust accordingly.

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, Wilddragon said:

I think I need to clarify what I mean by the scumbag comment. We are talking about creators charging a different price for services that will see an item get graded, over those that are not graded. It was mentioned my RMA that Jae was one of those that did this. In many of our opinions it is a rather greasy thing to do. I do not mean Jae Lee himself is a scumbag, rather his practices of charging different prices for the same service. Hopefully this clarifies things. My experience is limited, however with all writers, artists etc. I have met, I have yet to encounter anybody who is not a genuine and nice person. 

You are absolutely correct. It is a scummy practice. If someone is willing to sign for $X for one person there's no justification for them to charge 2, 3, 4, whatever times that amount for another person. None. It's the same action, the same service (despite the rather pretzel logic of others trying to transfer the conditions the submitter faces onto the creator.) The only reason it's done at all is what I've said: greed, fear, jealousy exploited in creators, and addict behavior exploited in slabbers.

Those who argue otherwise are more than welcome to pay the higher charge, or even more. There's absolutely nothing stopping them from handing over more money. 

It's like the folks who argue for higher taxes. Nothing's preventing them from paying more. Nothing. But when it comes down to it, none of them ever pay more than they're required to. They just want everybody else to pay more. Petty greed, jealousy, envy...it's all wrapped up in that.

Remember: the argument that some try to make, that "flippers" are just "upset" about their "bottom line" is a false one, one that, as is usual in these types of discussions, reverts to feelings and emotions, rather than reason and logic. "Oh, they're just MAD because they can't make as much MONEY!" It's just another manifestation of other people counting your money, which is none of their business.

Which, of course, as all arguments made on emotion do, falls apart when scrutinized. Again, for the 5,427th time, the vast majority of the value of ANY book is in its condition...not its signature. When you're selling a book for $200, the difference between $5 and $10...or $10 and $20...isn't really all that big a difference. 

No, at the heart of this is that creators are treating customers like there's something wrong with them, as if there's this unspoken (and often spoken) vibe of  "you're cheating me!!!", which isn't true, never has been true, never will be true, but nonetheless has percolated through the creator community like a virulent strain of herpes, because of the enablers who encourage its spread. "For you, my wonderful fan, I will sign this book for $5. For you, filthy, dirty slabber, it's $10." Except that the one getting the $5 sig may toss that baby on eBay within 5 minutes of walking away, while the one charged $10 may be keeping that slab forever. And there's nothing wrong with either scenario.

But the "CGC punishment tax" hurts just about everyone involved. It hurts creators, it hurts collectors, it hurts CGC...it doesn't help anyone but those who enable and encourage it.

It's absurd to try and argue otherwise, because no one would tolerate this sort of discriminatory nonsense in the real world, at least not for very long.

Edited March 11, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[jcjames]

The false belief that a creator's signature automatically adds value to a book has been disproven time and time again.

Specifically for Liefeld - compare probably his most famous and significant book: NM98.

Liefeld's signature adds NOTHING to the value of his greatest book below 9.2 grade.

At 9.0, a SS NM98 9.0 sells for the same as a non-SS NM98 9.0. (same with non-uberHG raws but that's not relevant)

So where is the value added of a Liefeld signature? It's in the GRADE. No high grade = no value added from Liefeld's signature.

And who is responsible for that high-grade? Is it Liefeld? No.

It's the collector who became educated as to carefully inspecting, selecting, handling, (maybe even pressing), storing, transporting and shipping books that were highe-grade candidates to get them signed by Liefeld and who also bore the cost of getting them graded and who also bore the risk of having the book damaged or downgraded throughout the entire process.