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What's up with Rob Liefeld? No CGC?
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438 posts in this topic

I know, I would have loved to have gotten him to sign my Aria books. I got somewhere in the vicinity of 40 books signed by Jay at C2E2 and SDCC last year, and the logistics just didn't work out.

But man do my Aria books look lovely. Anybody remember Aria...? Anyone...? 

(crickets)

Edit to add: want to hear something depressing? The Jay Anacleto Sketchbook, which was one of THE HOTTEST books of the summer of 1999...? 

There's not one single copy of the regular or the variant on the census. There are a handful of the gold linens, but not one of the regular or the variant.

Not. One.

How sad is that...?

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

4. All of which is none of the creators' business in the first place. What someone does with their property isn't anyone else's business. If I want to slab it, rip it up, bury it, roll it up and smoke it, what business is it of theirs? None. But, remember: addicts and don't want to be cut off, so we say nothing out of fear.

The creators are giving you a service. The creator has the right to know what his services are being used for and the right to charge the appropriate amount. If he doesn't want his signature slabbed or wants to charge a premium for going into slab that is his choice. It's like Tim Curry charging me $200 to sign my poster based on size and type of item despite he lower rates as well to sign items that was his choice or Lee Meriwhether's choice to sign my poster for 60 when she would of only charged me 30 for one of her 8x11 that she would of signed. You can't control what they charge or even really complain about it much, if you don't like the price of the service don't pay it and refuse the service.

Don't cry over spilt milk. I'm happy with the current system.

 

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5 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

The creators are giving you a service. The creator has the right to know what his services are being used for and the right to charge the appropriate amount.

AFTER taking my money, Nichelle Nichols told me that she would not sign my cast photo because the photographer that took it (from back in the 60's mind you) was a racist. Nothing I could do to change her mind. I told her that I was not racist and just wanted my cast photo signed since I had other signatures on it. She refused. Her signature, her choice. But, my choice to pay her for her signature. (shrug)

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31 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

The creators are giving you a service. The creator has the right to know what his services are being used for and the right to charge the appropriate amount. If he doesn't want his signature slabbed or wants to charge a premium for going into slab that is his choice. It's like Tim Curry charging me $200 to sign my poster based on size and type of item despite he lower rates as well to sign items that was his choice or Lee Meriwhether's choice to sign my poster for 60 when she would of only charged me 30 for one of her 8x11 that she would of signed. You can't control what they charge or even really complain about it much, if you don't like the price of the service don't pay it and refuse the service.

Don't cry over spilt milk. I'm happy with the current system.

 

No one is saying it’s not the choice of creators.  

 

But do you know anyone who likes to make financial decisions based on disinformation? That is what they are doing here.  

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25 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

AFTER taking my money, Nichelle Nichols told me that she would not sign my cast photo because the photographer that took it (from back in the 60's mind you) was a racist. Nothing I could do to change her mind. I told her that I was not racist and just wanted my cast photo signed since I had other signatures on it. She refused. Her signature, her choice. But, my choice to pay her for her signature. (shrug)

Yep her choice and her justified reasons. You may not like her decision. It's like bringing a copy of Playboy to Nicola Bryant to sign she just won't sign it because of the photographer her choice.

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Just now, reddwarf666222 said:

Yep her choice and her justified reasons. You may not like her decision. It's like bringing a copy of Playboy to Nicola Bryant to sign she just won't sign it because of the photographer her choice.

Completely agree. Her decision. Its her signature, she can sign what she wants and charge what she wants. The market will ultimately force her decisions if they are unreasonable.

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2 minutes ago, revat said:

No one is saying it’s not the choice of creators.  

 

But do you know anyone who likes to make financial decisions based on disinformation? That is what they are doing here.  

If that is what you want to believe. Most creators are very informed on what CGC is and what they do. All I can say is some of the people who post on here sound like disgruntled fans who don't like what the system has evolved into. Liefeld has no issue with CGC.

My guess is very simple a certain company was acquired by a larger company who has Steve Grad as the head signature verification. Maybe with bigger stuff behind that company now they offered an exclusive. Maybe Grad introduced Liefeld to Rick of Pawn Stars to where Liefeld is going to be the comics expert on the show now. It's all about the Benjamins and his brand and what he thinks will elevate it.

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17 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

If that is what you want to believe. Most creators are very informed on what CGC is and what they do. All I can say is some of the people who post on here sound like disgruntled fans who don't like what the system has evolved into. Liefeld has no issue with CGC.

My guess is very simple a certain company was acquired by a larger company who has Steve Grad as the head signature verification. Maybe with bigger stuff behind that company now they offered an exclusive. Maybe Grad introduced Liefeld to Rick of Pawn Stars to where Liefeld is going to be the comics expert on the show now. It's all about the Benjamins and his brand and what he thinks will elevate it.

You think most creators have an accurate picture of how much Cgc ss sells for and why? And how much value is actually added for their sigs?

 

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1 hour ago, reddwarf666222 said:

The creators are giving you a service. The creator has the right to know what his services are being used for

 

No, they don't. 

If I hire a painter to paint my house, he has no right to know what I plan on doing with the house upon which his paint job was performed.

If I hire a contractor to build me a house, he has no right to know what I intend to do with that house.

If I hire a plumber to install a toilet, he has no right to know what I intend to do with that toilet.

If I buy a car from a dealer, she has no right to know what I intend to do with that car.

If I buy a loaf of bread from a store, they have no right to know what I intend to do with that loaf.

If I buy a signature from a creator, he has no right to know what I intend to do with that signature.

Once it's signed and paid for, the service is performed, and that specific set of ink atoms no longer belongs to the creator. He/she has ZERO claim on it, of any kind.

What you are suggesting...that one party has some sort of "right" or "claim" upon property that they've sold or performed some service upon, independently of the other party's acceptance of said terms...is entirely outside of the  theory and practice of "contract rights" in the entire history of US Law, and the English Common Law upon which it is built. 

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24 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No, they don't. 

If I hire a painter to paint my house, he has no right to know what I plan on doing with the house upon which his paint job was performed.

If I hire a contractor to build me a house, he has no right to know what I intend to do with that house.

If I hire a plumber to install a toilet, he has no right to know what I intend to do with that toilet.

If I buy a car from a dealer, she has no right to know what I intend to do with that car.

If I buy a loaf of bread from a store, they have no right to know what I intend to do with that loaf.

If I buy a signature from a creator, he has no right to know what I intend to do with that signature.

Once it's signed and paid for, the service is performed, and that specific set of ink atoms no longer belongs to the creator. He/she has ZERO claim on it, of any kind.

What you are suggesting...that one party has some sort of "right" or "claim" upon property that they've sold or performed some service upon, independently of the other party's acceptance of said terms...is entirely outside of the  theory and practice of "contract rights" in the entire history of US Law, and the English Common Law upon which it is built. 

Not to mention, if I sell the slabbed book to someone, who then later resells it, does that next seller need to send a creator that signed it more money?

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2 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

The creators are giving you a service. The creator has the right to know what his services are being used for and the right to charge the appropriate amount. If he doesn't want his signature slabbed or wants to charge a premium for going into slab that is his choice. It's like Tim Curry charging me $200 to sign my poster based on size and type of item despite he lower rates as well to sign items that was his choice or Lee Meriwhether's choice to sign my poster for 60 when she would of only charged me 30 for one of her 8x11 that she would of signed. You can't control what they charge or even really complain about it much, if you don't like the price of the service don't pay it and refuse the service.

Don't cry over spilt milk. I'm happy with the current system.

 

The question was in regards to different amounts charged for the same thing: a signature. 

By your logic, a gas station would have the right to see if you drive for Uber and charge you more per gallon of gas if you do. After all, you’re going to profit off of their gas so they deserve a piece of that. Right?

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You are talking about a contract, but if the creator has a sign and it says you have to pay more for a CGC autograph, then that is the requirement for his service. There is no "contract" other than that. You haven't hired him to do anything at that point. Even if you have paid him and he is about to sign your book, there is no reason he cannot change his mind and give you your money back. 

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2 minutes ago, mysterio said:

The question was in regards to different amounts charged for the same thing: a signature. 

By your logic, a gas station would have the right to see if you drive for Uber and charge you more per gallon of gas if you do. After all, you’re going to profit off of their gas so they deserve a piece of that. Right?

But its not a product, its a service. It happens all the time in everyday life. People pay different amounts for the exact same services as someone else. Many examples.

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22 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

But its not a product, its a service. It happens all the time in everyday life. People pay different amounts for the exact same services as someone else. Many examples.

A signature seems more like a product to me. It’s a tangible thing. Installing something is a service. Delivering something is a service. A signature is a product that can be passed on to another buyer. I can’t resell a delivery or an installation, only pay again to repeat them. Signing a book is essentially manufacturing a product. 

Edited by mysterio
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7 minutes ago, mysterio said:

A signature seems more like a product to me. It’s a tangible thing. Installing something is a service. Delivering something is a service. A signature is a product that can be passed on to another buyer. I can’t resell a delivery or an installation, only pay again to repeat them. 

Having my car painted a special color or accessorized by someone or having a contractor build a specially designed room onto my house might be similar. Both might charge different if I own either versus if I am a flipper and trying to just make money on them. It definitely happens. There are many instances where someone in the service industry will charge more to someone for the same service based on some criteria that they determine is worthy of increasing or decreasing their fee.

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3 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

If he doesn't want his signature slabbed or wants to charge a premium for going into slab that is his choice.

What you're describing here is a PRE-condition, which is perfectly acceptable.

A handful of people keep making the same erroneous argument: that anyone is suggesting that creators don't have the right to control their signatures.

No one has said this. Not once. Ever.

So it's a good idea that people stop arguing against positions that have never been taken, because it continues to muddy up the conversation with points that no one is contending.

The problem isn't whether someone has a right to do that...they do...it's whether it's good business practice or not.

And it's clearly not. It's discriminatory. And, it is a decision based on false information. Decisions based on false information are always going to be bad business practice, by definition.

3 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

It's like Tim Curry charging me $200 to sign my poster based on size and type of item despite he lower rates as well to sign items that was his choice or Lee Meriwhether's choice to sign my poster for 60 when she would of only charged me 30 for one of her 8x11 that she would of signed.

No, those situations aren't analogous. In that instance, his choice was based on his INFORMED opinion about what he wanted to do with his signature. He had all the information in front of him that he needed to make the decision he made. His decision wasn't based in misinformation. Same with Lee Meriwether. She would have charged you $30 for an 8x11, but decided that to sign a poster was more. Her right, but more importantly, an informed decision.

Rob Liefeld charges more for New Mutants #87, 98, and various other books. I have no problem with that, and have said so, on multiple occasions, on multiple platforms.

And all the rest of the examples that both you and "kevhtx" have brought up aren't relevant to the discussion, because they are not in contention. One more time: no one is disputing the RIGHT of the signer to sign under ANY CONDITIONS they so choose. If Nichelle Nichols doesn't want to sign your poster, because she believes you're going to go home and cuddle naked with it under the covers, that's her RIGHT.

It's also none of her business, and quite rude to ask. And it's bad for business to discriminate, especially based on inaccurate perceptions. Doesn't mean she doesn't have the RIGHT.

Are you seeing the difference...?

2 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Most creators are very informed on what CGC is and what they do.

Oh, no no no. Sorry, but that is not even remotely true. See Revat's posts above.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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8 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Having my car painted a special color or accessorized by someone or having a contractor build a specially designed room onto my house might be similar. Both might charge different if I own either versus if I am a flipper and trying to just make money on them. It definitely happens. There are many instances where someone in the service industry will charge more to someone for the same service based on some criteria that they determine is worthy of increasing or decreasing their fee.

Your analogies do not work. You are not accurately describing the situation being discussed.

At issue here is the DIFFERENCE in price for the SAME service. You're not asking for a "special color" or a "specially designed room." You're asking for the same thing as the "raw" customer: a signature. The "raw" customer pays $X, but the "slabbed" customer pays more.  You're not asking for a "special" signature, or a "sketch", or anything other than the exact same thing they're ALREADY WILLING TO DO for the "raw" customer for a lower price.

As far as the services you mention, it's none of their business what you intend to do with it. If they find out, then yes, they might attempt to scam you. But that doesn't make it good business practice.

Got any real life examples of your contention...? Not just "might", but "do"? 

 

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44 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

But its not a product, its a service. It happens all the time in everyday life. People pay different amounts for the exact same services as someone else. Many examples.

Great. 

Got any....?

And I don't mean where people pay different amounts because of scuzzy business practices. I mean people who are CHARGED different amounts for the exact same service/product, under the exact same conditions as everyone else.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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47 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

You are talking about a contract, but if the creator has a sign and it says you have to pay more for a CGC autograph, then that is the requirement for his service. There is no "contract" other than that. You haven't hired him to do anything at that point. Even if you have paid him and he is about to sign your book, there is no reason he cannot change his mind and give you your money back. 

That's correct. And that's also not in contention.

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