First Appearance: Batman who laughs???
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I don’t know if this was asked, if it was can someone link me up.....

which issue is the first appearance of BWL?? Metal #2? Teen Titan #12?? Casting #1???

trying to research and the general population is split between those three. Synder (writer of Metal) says it’s Metal #2. Metal#2 & TT12 came out the same time. TT12 has a lower print run. Casting came before Metal & TT, but it’s only an advertisement (for Metal)

I saw CGC graded TT12 (on eBay) but it never mentioned BWL. 

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In my opinion ads don't count since they're not a part of the story so I'll ignore Casting #1.

TT12 and Metal #2 came out on the same day as you mentioned.  In my opinion since the events in Metal #2 occur before those of TT12, I feel as though Metal #2 should be the first appearance.  The fact that Snyder says it's so adds more evidence as far as i'm concerned.  I mean, who is to argue with the guy that thought up the story?

That being said, the market appears to have settled on TT12 being the first appearance for some inexplicable reason.

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I think the only reason why the market settled on TT12 was because it has a lower print run. 

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3 minutes ago, combiner1 said:

I think the only reason why the market settled on TT12 was because it has a lower print run. 

If that's the case, it's a truly stupid reason made by the marketplace.  Print run has no logical bearing on the derivation of a 1st appearance.  It should be driven by A) release date, B) story.

I really wish the publishers were responsible for deciding official 1st appearances.  It would save a lot of trouble with situations like this and Red Goblin.

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3 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

If that's the case, it's a truly stupid reason made by the marketplace.  Print run has no logical bearing on the derivation of a 1st appearance.  It should be driven by A) release date, B) story.

I really wish the publishers were responsible for deciding official 1st appearances.  It would save a lot of trouble with situations like this and Red Goblin.

 Metal #2 is the first appearance. Not a cameo. An actual appearance.

Speculators come up with new rules all the time to better suit there financial interest. Print run is NOT a deciding factor of a first appearance.

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1 minute ago, speedcake said:

This ^    How stupid.  Inventing first appearance rules for a tiny short term financial gain. Comics are fun!

Shhhh..you'll decrease the value! :ph34r:

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I was talking to my LCS guy about this. Anyway his reasoning why TT12 has a higher value are : BWL is on the cover and 2-3 other pages inside. While for Metal#2, BWL is only on the last page. Well all the twisted Batman are.....

But then, the creator of BWL went on record and says it’s Metal#2..........

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I'm "going" with DNM 2; now where did I place those copies of TT 12?

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I've always thought that the view of "let the market decide" gets a bit hazy given the market price is so determined by supply, and TT12 had such a lower print run than DNM2. Usually that view makes sense when there isn't such a discrepancy (eg. IH180/IH181), but here, I feel it's a bit tougher to say TT12 is worth much more, so it's the first app.

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13 hours ago, combiner1 said:

I was talking to my LCS guy about this. Anyway his reasoning why TT12 has a higher value are : BWL is on the cover and 2-3 other pages inside. While for Metal#2, BWL is only on the last page. Well all the twisted Batman are.....

But then, the creator of BWL went on record and says it’s Metal#2..........

Well, if he is on the last page, then it is an appearance, even if it's just a lame teaser. If they came out on the same day, then they're effectively both the (unqualified) first appearance, but the story timing and quality/quantity of the appearances become factors in how people view them.

For anybody who still doesn't understand basic economics, the market only determines prices. Prices are based on supply and demand. First appearances are only one factor that affects only one part of that equation.

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Dark Days The Casting #1, last page cameo, it's not an ad. You may wanna go back and read it. 2 months before Metal #2 and Teen Titans #12

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1 hour ago, Lonzilla said:

Dark Days The Casting #1, last page cameo, it's not an ad. You may wanna go back and read it. 2 months before Metal #2 and Teen Titans #12

Where?
 

1.jpg

Edited by ygogolak

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11 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Where?
 

1.jpg

Front row (L to R): The Batman Who Laughs, The Dawnbreaker, The Murder Machine, The Drowned, The Merciless, The Red Death

Middle row: The Devastator

Back row: Barbatos

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being as DNM2 and TT12 came out the same day but the reading order for the story is DNM2 before TT12, that would make DNM2 the winner of first appearance. My question is why hasnt anything been done as far as grading to make a note of this? It's been how many months now and still nothing when the books are graded. 

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On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 4:59 PM, ExNihilo said:

In my opinion ads don't count since they're not a part of the story so I'll ignore Casting #1.

TT12 and Metal #2 came out on the same day as you mentioned.  In my opinion since the events in Metal #2 occur before those of TT12, I feel as though Metal #2 should be the first appearance.  The fact that Snyder says it's so adds more evidence as far as i'm concerned.  I mean, who is to argue with the guy that thought up the story?

That being said, the market appears to have settled on TT12 being the first appearance for some inexplicable reason.

This is the same problem that occurs with ASM #252 vs Marvel Team up #141. They literally came out on the same day, and both have the 1st Appearance of Spider-Man's black costume on the cover, and in the book. But, ASM #252 is given primacy by the market, probably because it's the main title. I remember picking up both at the comic shop on the same day, and asking why they were not limiting the number of copies of MTU #141 you could buy, like they were with #252.

It was all marketing hype.

 

 

Edited by PhilipB2k17

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21 hours ago, Lonzilla said:

Dark Days The Casting #1, last page cameo, it's not an ad. You may wanna go back and read it. 2 months before Metal #2 and Teen Titans #12

So, you're saying Hulk #180 is the true first appearance of Wolverine? I've been making this argument for years but the market has decided otherwise.

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7 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

Front row (L to R): The Batman Who Laughs, The Dawnbreaker, The Murder Machine, The Drowned, The Merciless, The Red Death

Middle row: The Devastator

Back row: Barbatos

You're telling me this guy:

Doc1.jpg

 

is supposed to be this guy:

DHzKPamU0AADW8y.0.jpg

 

 

 

And people wonder why this hasn't been picked up?

Edited by ygogolak

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