Collectible Insurance Services review 5 5

[JS]

I wanted to post a PSA about Collectibles Insurance Services (collectinsure.com) since I have previously endorsed their services and many people here use them. I am changing my position to reflect a recent loss that occurred.

Long story short, my framer accidentally lost/destroyed about 10 pieces of mine when the manager went on vacation. There is video proof of the event occurring and we are taking steps to resolve the matter.

I put a claim in with CIS which was ultimately was denied based on the provision of the policy related to voluntary surrender of items to a 3rd party.

Many people including myself would assume that CIS would provide coverage related to framing, grading, or storing artwork.

CIS provides coverage for some areas, like a hotel room (even if you aren't in it), or a convention center. They would cover art or cards en-route to a grading or framing shop, but not at the shop itself.

For those that say, well shouldn't the frame shop provide coverage, yes you are absolutely correct - that is called primary coverage, and they should (and hopefully will) but ultimately CIS as my carrier should provide coverage to me, then go after the frame shop in what is known as a subrogation action. Any carrier worth their salt would do that for their insured. In fact, the entire reason for insurance is to protect an insured from these types of events.

Anyway, as I said, since I have previously recommended CIS, I am now advising to steer clear as their coverage does not reflect the spirit of their written polices.

I'll keep everyone posted, I am canceling my policy and likely switching to Chubb.

[shadroch]

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. Your issue is with the shop, it seems to me.

[JS]

26 minutes ago, shadroch said:

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. Your issue is with the shop, it seems to me.

Re-read my post. They would be primary, but the idea is that the frame shop is primary, sure - in the same sense that a comic-grading company would be primary if they lost/destroyed your comic. But wouldn't you want your insurance company to provide coverage if the frame shop or grader doesn't? In this case the frame shop has actually told me to take a hike, so my insurance should be there to protect. CIS is not doing that.

[Transplant]

This is a little disturbing as I assume this would mean that CIS does not cover books in the possession of CGC or a SS witness.

[shadroch]

Cgc has its own insurance, as should any party engaged in pressing your books.

I wouldn't send books to a witness that didn't carry insurance.

If I send books to a consignment site, I expect they have insurance and if they lose a book ,that they are responsible.

Not seeing an issue, beyond unrealistic expectations. Read your policy and ask questions if you aren't clear.

Get yourself an attorney and sue the people who screwed up.

Edited March 12, 2018 by shadroch

[SuperBird]

has anyone filed a normal comic book claim with them? how did that go? 

[october]

29 minutes ago, SuperBird said:

has anyone filed a normal comic book claim with them? how did that go? 

I have. 

A $500 slab I sold on eBay was destroyed in shipping. They asked for proof of damage, proof of the sale, and the signature confirmation on the shipment. I sent all three and they cut a check right away.  

[NoMan]

insurance is scary. everybody loves their chosen insurance company until they don't.

[JS]

22 minutes ago, october said:

I have. 

A $500 slab I sold on eBay was destroyed in shipping. They asked for proof of damage, proof of the sale, and the signature confirmation on the shipment. I sent all three and they cut a check right away.  

Shipping is covered, yeah, that is not an issue. That's spelled out.

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

Cgc has its own insurance, as should any party engaged in pressing your books.

I wouldn't send books to a witness that didn't carry insurance.

If I send books to a consignment site, I expect they have insurance and if they lose a book ,that they are responsible.

Not seeing an issue, beyond unrealistic expectations. Read your policy and ask questions if you aren't clear.

Get yourself an attorney and sue the people who screwed up.

Unrealistic expectations? That's insane. CIS covers collectibles at hotels, at conventions and en-route, why would it not be covered at a frame shop. So I would have had coverage had I shipped the items there. Arguing that the frame shop should carry insurance is like saying the hotel or convention should have insurance. If the items were damaged en-route to the shop, they would have been covered. But once at the shop they aren't. That's not unrealistic expectations IMHO. That's more the spirit of the policy that it should be covered than anything else.

Edited March 12, 2018 by JS

[makeminemarvel]

2 hours ago, JS said:

their coverage does not reflect the spirit of their written polices.

Sorry to hear about this, but their is no "spirit of the agreement" when it comes to contract law.  Only what is in black and white.

[JS]

8 minutes ago, makeminemarvel said:

Sorry to hear about this, but their is no "spirit of the agreement" when it comes to contract law.  Only what is in black and white.

That is wrong - comprehensive policies which is what this CIS policy is, would absolutely use the "spirit of the policy" to insure things. Almost no examples of coverage provided in coverage terms - rather, terms of a policy are interpreted through fair reading, via an adjuster (or an insured) - ie: spirit of a policy.

[lizards2]

42 minutes ago, NoMan said:

insurance is scary. everybody loves their chosen insurance company until they don't.

Generally, they are in the insurance business to enrich the company and insurance salesmen.  Any other services are usually secondary.

[shadroch]

50 minutes ago, JS said:

Shipping is covered, yeah, that is not an issue. That's spelled out.

Unrealistic expectations? That's insane. CIS covers collectibles at hotels, at conventions and en-route, why would it not be covered at a frame shop. So I would have had coverage had I shipped the items there. Arguing that the frame shop should carry insurance is like saying the hotel or convention should have insurance. If the items were damaged en-route to the shop, they would have been covered. But once at the shop they aren't. That's not unrealistic expectations IMHO. That's more the spirit of the policy that it should be covered than anything else.

Suppose you consigned these, instead.  You ship them and CIS covers the books or the art in shipping. They arrive and two days later the persons dogs rip them to shreds. Are they covered?

By the way, your collectors policy covers your books, but if you sell extensively on ebay, they may not fully cover your shipping.  The person I spoke to told me there is no exact number that changes a collector into a dealer, but if you are a power seller selling mostly comics, you need a dealers policy . Not a collectors.

I'm not 100% thrilled with CIS. They are giving me problems on a few items from my flood, but overall they have been pretty damn good.

[NoMan]

48 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

Generally, they are in the insurance business to enrich the company and insurance salesmen.  Any other services are usually secondary.

I have American Collectors insurance. We'll see. They are very prompt and reliable in getting bills to me, at the correct address, etc. 

[lizards2]

2 hours ago, NoMan said:

3 hours ago, lizards2 said:

Generally, they are in the insurance business to enrich the company and insurance salesmen.  Any other services are usually secondary.

I have American Collectors insurance. We'll see. They are very prompt and reliable in getting bills to me, at the correct address, etc. 

Of course they are - they've got tremendous greens fees and other expenses to attend to.

Edited March 12, 2018 by lizards2

[shadroch]

Watching Judge Judy, I get the impression many insurance companies don't send out bills.

[ThothAmon]

4 hours ago, JS said:

I put a claim in with CIS which was ultimately was denied based on the provision of the policy related to voluntary surrender of items to a 3rd party.

As a policy holder myself your post came as an unhappy surprise to me. That said I’m not sure how you can be upset with them when the policy specifically excludes such a claim?  As a practical matter if books held by CCS or CGC are not covered under the same exclusion properly valuing the book on the submission form becomes even more important. If your book is damaged they only offer what you valued the book at upon submission. 

[justafan]

15 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

As a policy holder myself your post came as an unhappy surprise to me. That said I’m not sure how you can be upset with them when the policy specifically excludes such a claim?  As a practical matter if books held by CCS or CGC are not covered under the same exclusion properly valuing the book on the submission form becomes even more important. If your book is damaged they only offer what you valued the book at upon submission. 

The very valuable lesson learned here is that when you are selecting a place that will handle/store/perform work on any of your valuables you first need to find out if they are insured for loss up to the "market" value or your ascribed value of the valuables and/or will agree to be held responsible for any loss/damage while in their possession -in writing and signed.

CIS value does take a little bit of a hit here as I would also expect that the dealer coverage or higher levels of coverage they offered would cover this type of incident. 

Sounds like a law suit against the framer (unless they presented you with a "not responsible for loss or damages" policy) and possibly criminal charges if theft of some kind was involved.

You can try and sue CIS under what you were claiming/expecting it should work but if it is stated in the policy that you purchased, you probably won't win that one.

 

[Knightsofold]

I've had to file a claim with CIS and was disappointed with their service, as of now I'm still with them, but that's only because I haven't found a different insurance company.   You can PM me for details if you'd like. 

[comicwiz]

8 hours ago, shadroch said:

Cgc has its own insurance, as should any party engaged in pressing your books.

I wouldn't send books to a witness that didn't carry insurance.

If I send books to a consignment site, I expect they have insurance and if they lose a book ,that they are responsible.

Not seeing an issue, beyond unrealistic expectations. Read your policy and ask questions if you aren't clear.

Get yourself an attorney and sue the people who screwed up.

I had one of my comics destroyed by CGC. I contacted the President of the company, Mark Haspel at that time, to voice my displeasure and there was no way he would admit they damaged my comic.  He actually had the balls to tell me I might have sent them the comic that way.

If you remember the Spider-Dan incident where the JIM 83 went from blue label, to purple, then back to blue, they barely wanted to admit it was the same book, even though the scans/photos showed it was the identical comic that they couldn't figure out whether it was restored or not.

You assume you are going to get a TPG like CGC to admit they screwed-up. Businesses are amoral, and don't fess up or admit the truth if it means exposing them to liability. An insurer paying out the claim and going after the third-party is how it's ordinarily handled.