Silver age Pence vs Cent 2 2

[colossus is awesome!]

Hi everyone,

I wanted some opinions on Pence copies vs Cent copies on silver age keys. I know this has a topic prior, but has not been mentioned in a thread in quite some time. Whats everyone's opinion them.  With the boom of silver age keys in the past few years you can pick up a UK version surprisingly cheaper (at least in my opinion) than it's US counterpart.  Obviously with the rising prices of the Cent copies the U.K versions are steadily rising as well, but there is still a decent margin. So after doing some research this is what I found out. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Both Uk and US versions were printed off the same press at the same time. Pence copies were printed first in strictly limited quantities so often have better overall color and less marvel chipping than the cent counterparts. Pence copies are (going by the cgc census SUPER RARE compared to its counterpart) Examples:

Hulk 1: Cent: 1504, Pence: 38

X-Men 1: Cent: 4012, Pence: 58

AF15: Cent: 2902, Pence: 48

FF1: Cent: 2017, Pence: 13

JIM83: Cent: 1604, Pence: 22  

ASM 1: Cent: 3415, Pence: 56

Every single silver age key follows this trend, I understand that there is still probably a decent amount of raw copies in the UK that have yet make it over state side and or CGC. So isn't Pence copies technically cent variant kind of like the bronze age 30 to 35 cent variant? I most cases variants whether its a 35 cent or 1 in 200, newstand edition ect. follow the tread that those vairiants normally sell for more that the regular version. Why does the Pence follow the same suite?

My personal opinion: If its a silverage key I'm not picky between the two, I actually think they are super cool and rare, but the price difference between the two from value stand point gives you cause to pause. Why do most collectors prefer the more common of the two? Do you all believe this trend will always stay the same? Do people not care for the 9d, because I believe that and the Month on the cover are the only thing different. The interior is the exactly the same to my knowledge.  I just think this is a super interesting topic and look forward to everyone's input

 

Thanks,

Dave 

[paul747]

I agree and wonder the same things.  I don't think there is evidence that the pence books where printed first .  I do think it will turn and pence copes will be more valuable because of rarity.

[colossus is awesome!]

33 minutes ago, paul747 said:

I agree and wonder the same things.  I don't think there is evidence that the pence books where printed first .  I do think it will turn and pence copes will be more valuable because of rarity.

Thanks for your input. Yeah it was always mind boggling to me. I cant remember were exactly i read that, but I guess theory is because they printed the pence copies strictly limited they cam off the press first and the few pence copies out there have fewer marvel chipping from the blades being dull and or ink on cover seems to be brighter. But again there isnt a huge number of pence copies to look at were there is gorgeous cent copies with bright color and no chipping as well. So i can see that definitely being skewed a bit.    

[nmtg9]

That they were printed first is still just a theory I think.

Too many collectors stateside see them as inferior in some way. Which is fine by me, cheaper to buy for me.

My dad bought a 9d Amazing Fantasy 15 from a newsagents back in 1962 and set us out on this crazy journey that still continues for me today. 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

Hello @colossus is awesome! - cool thread my man 

I'm on the road today, struggling on my phone. Have a look at my pence threads if you get time. We talk about this in them. Links in the 'about me' page of my profile.

I'll chip in more tomorrow 

[rakehell]

19 hours ago, colossus is awesome! said:

Pence copies were printed first in strictly limited quantities so often have better overall color and less marvel chipping than the cent counterparts.

I agree with nmtg9 that the "pence first" idea is just a theory at this point, but I don't think it's important. The thing to remember with these is that the only difference is on the cover, even with the early L. Miller & Thorpe & Porter indicia changes, and that the interiors were all printed at the same time together. What order the covers were printed in is immaterial, really when you consider that the other 30-odd pages all came from the same pile.

19 hours ago, colossus is awesome! said:

So isn't Pence copies technically cent variant kind of like the bronze age 30 to 35 cent variant?

Yes, colossus is awesome!, they are exactly the same as the 35 cent variants. In fact, many of the comics that were released in 35 cent variants also had pence variants in the same run.

19 hours ago, colossus is awesome! said:

Why do most collectors prefer the more common of the two?

A good question. I can only guess at an answer, but I suggest that most people prefer the more common cents covers because they simply don't know about (or know enough about) the pence variants. Speaking as someone with a foot on both sides of the pond, I like the added dimension these variants add to the hobby. I think the number of pence collectors will always be smaller than the number of regular cents collectors, but I've seen a real uptick in interest lately. I also think for very high grade key issues, the scarcity of pence covers can only drive prices up, eventually.

[colossus is awesome!]

4 hours ago, nmtg9 said:

That they were printed first is still just a theory I think.

Too many collectors stateside see them as inferior in some way. Which is fine by me, cheaper to buy for me.

My dad bought a 9d Amazing Fantasy 15 from a newsagents back in 1962 and set us out on this crazy journey that still continues for me today. 

 

That's crazy!! I would agree most people state side do feel they are somewhat inferior to the cent copy, but then their people like me who feel like they should fetch more that the cent. Thanks for your input!!

[colossus is awesome!]

2 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

Hello @colossus is awesome! - cool thread my man 

I'm on the road today, struggling on my phone. Have a look at my pence threads if you get time. We talk about this in them. Links in the 'about me' page of my profile.

I'll chip in more tomorrow 

Awesome!! I look forward to it.. I'll check out the link thanks!

[colossus is awesome!]

1 hour ago, rakehell said:

I agree with nmtg9 that the "pence first" idea is just a theory at this point, but I don't think it's important. The thing to remember with these is that the only difference is on the cover, even with the early L. Miller & Thorpe & Porter indicia changes, and that the interiors were all printed at the same time together. What order the covers were printed in is immaterial, really when you consider that the other 30-odd pages all came from the same pile.

Yes, colossus is awesome!, they are exactly the same as the 35 cent variants. In fact, many of the comics that were released in 35 cent variants also had pence variants in the same run.

A good question. I can only guess at an answer, but I suggest that most people prefer the more common cents covers because they simply don't know about (or know enough about) the pence variants. Speaking as someone with a foot on both sides of the pond, I like the added dimension these variants add to the hobby. I think the number of pence collectors will always be smaller than the number of regular cents collectors, but I've seen a real uptick in interest lately. I also think for very high grade key issues, the scarcity of pence covers can only drive prices up, eventually.

That's super interesting. I don't know to much about the bronze age pence I feel like I never see those lol. thanks for the input. Yea agree about the pence high grade covers for example I know in Hulk 1 the highest graded pence thus far is a 7.5 to the 9.4 cent copy. I know its harder to get a high grade pence just because there are way less out there.

[pemart1966]

A lot of people like to collect what they remember/had as a kid.  Most collectors reside in North America and therefore most collectors remember or had the 10 cent/12 cent versions, hence the higher demand/value for these books. 

[serling1978]

On 3/15/2018 at 10:06 AM, colossus is awesome! said:

Hi everyone,

I wanted some opinions on Pence copies vs Cent copies on silver age keys. I know this has a topic prior, but has not been mentioned in a thread in quite some time. Whats everyone's opinion them.  With the boom of silver age keys in the past few years you can pick up a UK version surprisingly cheaper (at least in my opinion) than it's US counterpart.  Obviously with the rising prices of the Cent copies the U.K versions are steadily rising as well, but there is still a decent margin. So after doing some research this is what I found out. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Both Uk and US versions were printed off the same press at the same time. Pence copies were printed first in strictly limited quantities so often have better overall color and less marvel chipping than the cent counterparts. Pence copies are (going by the cgc census SUPER RARE compared to its counterpart) Examples:

Hulk 1: Cent: 1504, Pence: 38

X-Men 1: Cent: 4012, Pence: 58

AF15: Cent: 2902, Pence: 48

FF1: Cent: 2017, Pence: 13

JIM83: Cent: 1604, Pence: 22  

ASM 1: Cent: 3415, Pence: 56

Every single silver age key follows this trend, I understand that there is still probably a decent amount of raw copies in the UK that have yet make it over state side and or CGC. So isn't Pence copies technically cent variant kind of like the bronze age 30 to 35 cent variant? I most cases variants whether its a 35 cent or 1 in 200, newstand edition ect. follow the tread that those vairiants normally sell for more that the regular version. Why does the Pence follow the same suite?

My personal opinion: If its a silverage key I'm not picky between the two, I actually think they are super cool and rare, but the price difference between the two from value stand point gives you cause to pause. Why do most collectors prefer the more common of the two? Do you all believe this trend will always stay the same? Do people not care for the 9d, because I believe that and the Month on the cover are the only thing different. The interior is the exactly the same to my knowledge.  I just think this is a super interesting topic and look forward to everyone's input

 

Thanks,

Dave 

Are there really only 38 CGC graded pence priced Hulk 1's out there?  Maybe it has slightly changed since this thread is from a couple of years ago. Had no idea it was that rare though . I own one of those 38 or so 😁

[serling1978]

And I 100% agree with the theory that pence priced books have historically been less valued by collectors due to confusion. Once the idea became an established norm collectors just accepted it because "that's the way it is". There seems to be a better widespread knowledge these days but established norms are hard to break, so while it will take time I do think eventually pence priced books will be better regarded as a whole 👍

[Get Marwood & I]

[Frisco Larson]

I collect a LOT of comics that most others don't, like issues from other countries for example. I personally LIKE the idea of the pence copies being available and actually would like to have a matching pence and cents copy in my collection, or at least where it's feasible to do so. I think they'll probably always be less valuable than the cents copies, as there is a tremendous herd mentality in comic collecting and I believe it would take quite a swing in popular opinion to make a significant change in the market. If I had to guess, I would say the main reason that they sell for less is that when it comes to larger sums of money, people are much more cautious and likely don't trust that there is enough of an established sales history for them to "gamble" on a foreign copy over an American one with a much larger proven sales history, but that's just a guess. If you're talking about a hundred or two, most collectors wouldn't be very concerned, but when it's multiple thousands, then then would likely question a purchase much more before making a decision. My 2c. 

[Frisco Larson]

A pence copy pic that I have at hand. I don't have pics of most of the ones I own. I WOULD like to buy more. 

[Get Marwood & I]

16 minutes ago, Frisco Larson said:

I collect a LOT of comics that most others don't, like issues from other countries for example. I personally LIKE the idea of the pence copies being available and actually would like to have a matching pence and cents copy in my collection, or at least where it's feasible to do so. I think they'll probably always be less valuable than the cents copies, as there is a tremendous herd mentality in comic collecting and I believe it would take quite a swing in popular opinion to make a significant change in the market. If I had to guess, I would say the main reason that they sell for less is that when it comes to larger sums of money, people are much more cautious and likely don't trust that there is enough of an established sales history for them to "gamble" on a foreign copy over an American one with a much larger proven sales history, but that's just a guess. If you're talking about a hundred or two, most collectors wouldn't be very concerned, but when it's multiple thousands, then then would likely question a purchase much more before making a decision. My 2c. 

I say a similar thing in this thread here Frisco:

 

[Frisco Larson]

6 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I say a similar thing in this thread here Frisco:

 

Thanks for the link. Yes, it looks as though we see this the same way. To me, this is still very much uncharted waters. I know several friends that collect Silver Age Marvels and they won't buy the UK copies. My guess is for the reasons I stated earlier. They DO see my books and think they're cool, but it's a different ballgame when it comes to spending your own money on them. I'm happy to have less competition in the marketplace for the pence copies (as it pertains to my pals), although the market for them HAS been steadily heating up over the last few years. To me, it's just more ways to build a collection, so I'm all for acquiring them when I can. 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Frisco Larson said:

Thanks for the link. Yes, it looks as though we see this the same way. To me, this is still very much uncharted waters. I know several friends that collect Silver Age Marvels and they won't buy the UK copies. My guess is for the reasons I stated earlier. They DO see my books and think they're cool, but it's a different ballgame when it comes to spending your own money on them. I'm happy to have less competition in the marketplace for the pence copies (as it pertains to my pals), although the market for them HAS been steadily heating up over the last few years. To me, it's just more ways to build a collection, so I'm all for acquiring them when I can. 

Yes, I do like a price variant me. UK, Canadian, Australian. Just another cool thing to collect when you've exhausted the US runs. Someone should make a list of them sometime. 

[Frisco Larson]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Yes, I do like a price variant me. UK, Canadian, Australian. Just another cool thing to collect when you've exhausted the US runs. Someone should make a list of them sometime. 

Oh that's a GREAT idea ….. can I nominate you for that? You seem to have an incredible knack for that type of thing. Seriously, you do. I've been swimming in other waters too for the last few years and I'll include an example of that below. I know it's off of this specific topic, but it's an example of other variants that I collect, so please forgive the slight topic detour. 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Frisco Larson said:

Oh that's a GREAT idea ….. can I nominate you for that? You seem to have an incredible knack for that type of thing. Seriously, you do.

You're pulling my leg aren't you 

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/blogs/blog/628-john-morlars-pence-palace-of-doom-and-other-comic-miscellany/

2 minutes ago, Frisco Larson said:

I've been swimming in other waters too for the last few years and I'll include an example of that below. I know it's off of this specific topic, but it's an example of other variants that I collect, so please forgive the slight topic detour. 

That's nice. Not my area of expertise, but I do like to see a foreign reprint book. Some of the covers are fantastic.