Jim Lee commission prices (WAS Lake Como Comic Art Festival 20-22 April) 4 4

[RS88]

12 minutes ago, vodou said:

LOL. It's definitely a copy, that doesn't mean it has to be direct lightbox or blueline. You kids...it's all bluelines, as if that's the only way things happen.

MS did 99% of the (creativity) work here, Jim gave you cooler skulls and signed it. It would be nice to see an "after" as a nod to his former IMAGE-mate though. No?

Commissioner is happy, good enough, it's his $15k (gag!)

Well I’m sure that we have many different tastes and choices made.

I’ll be sure to celebrate those next time you post the Art you do buy 

Unless it’s only trolling that interests you in the hobby...

[punisha19]

42 minutes ago, vodou said:

LOL. It's definitely a copy, that doesn't mean it has to be direct lightbox or blueline. You kids...it's all bluelines, as if that's the only way things happen.

MS did 99% of the (creativity) work here, Jim gave you cooler skulls and signed it. It would be nice to see an "after" as a nod to his former IMAGE-mate though. No?

Commissioner is happy, good enough, it's his $15k (gag!)

C’mon man....there’s friendly debate, then there’s enforcement of an opinion that is entirely not based on anything other than your own personal biases.  There are definitive compositional changes between the two if you actually look at the pieces. 

You really think Jim Lee needs to put an “after” on here.  Both Legends have addressed this piece and have reiterated their admiration for each others version and each other, so to conjure up some conspiracy about Jim deliberately ripping off Marc because you’re bitter about the price...that just sucks, Man.

Edited September 15, 2019 by punisha19

[vodou]

1 hour ago, RS88 said:

Unless it’s only trolling that interests you in the hobby...

Oh nailed it, shoot.

[Stevemmg]

Wonderful pieces,and thanks for sharing them. I have many times in my collecting life “overpaid” for things I really love. I can’t think of a single one that I’ve regretted over the long haul, just the ones I regret not buying. My other thought on the subject is the free market. If someone is charging “too much” then they have no purchasers, and generally will adjust to what the market will bear. If you simply think it’s overpriced, then maybe you’re not the customer for this item. Just sayin’. 

[eewwnuk]

Beautiful cover worthy commissions.  All sound like great hassle free memorable experiences.  While the price is high, i'm not sure you can argue the value isnt there.   

[dirtymartini1]

6 hours ago, camd said:

The ongoing debate...published OA vs commissions. Everyone is entitled to their wallets and opinions 

I am with you Subby and RS.
"We tend to put a price on art but sometimes the journey and experience is what makes it priceless."
Wise words from a friend and fellow collector of mine.
I commissioned a Jim Lee piece over summer 2018.
Xmen is what got me into reading comics as a kid, and Jim Lee and John Byrne are my all time favorites. When an opportunity arose to get a commission from Jim of a character of my choosing, it was a no brainer to me. Magneto and Wolverine being my two favorite characters, I decided to request the master of magnetism, as I love Jim' s portrayal of him in the 90s xmen run.
I was suppose to pick this up from Jim and Albert at a local LA art convention, but things came up so Jim could not make it. Being the stand up guy that he is, he was willing to meet up with me locally and treated me to coffee. That one on one experience, talking to a legend in my opinion is a memory I will cherish and story I can share with my friends and family. Jim was even kind enough to remark and sign additional items. Truly a stand up guy that remains down to earth despite his incredible rise up in the comic industry.
While some friends and fellow collectors of mine balked at the price, or questioned why not  buy published art, this is truly an experience I can not put a price on. Remember when we buy commissions, it is just not the hours the artist spent on the piece, its the years and years they spent honing and mastering their craft. In Jim's case, 30 plus years at the top, continuing to do free signings, sketches, tutorials. How can I not support a guy like that.
 

Jim Lee Magneto commission - $15k

Venti Caramel Macchiatto with Jim Lee - priceless

That quote was awesome. Your friend sounds super smaht!  

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by dirtymartini1

[Subby1938]

On 9/14/2019 at 6:38 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I am not. Yes, they are excellently drawn. But, there is other excellent work out there which, in my opinion, has more emotional impact—not because of the character setting but the flair the artist adds to the illustration work. Look at the feeling in the art from, say, Bruce Timm’s Naughty And Nice women or Tom Mandrake’s Spectre work, then look at the cost and compare it to the price for these commissions. I could see as much as $5,000 per piece, but not $ 15,000. 

Well Bruce Timm charges 1800-2000 US for 8 x 11” or some like that . Yes its full colour but I don’t connect with Bruce because BTAS ended two decades ago! Jim Lee is one of greatest artists of all time and having a piece from him is like owning a Kirby or Ditko for those that grew up in that era. 

Getting art from Jim is not easy and moving forward I don’t see him doing private art publicly again because he does not need the money . Trust me! Albert explained it’s been 15 years since a proper commission op opened up and it most likely will close in near future . Jim knows what he’s worth and sets his prices. I also learned the hard way through Albert that you don’t tell Jim what to draw . You get what he gives you . He left Marvel for these same reasons and was a huge success. That’s how he works. I asked for Namor I had no clue he would do a modern Hommage to that classic grail splash from 96 so I was blown away. Maybe it’s not for everyone but he was one of the artists I had to have a Namor from. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Subby1938

[stinkininkin]

Some of the commission snark on this thread is pretty gross.  You guys are true buzz kills.  To the consigners, congrats and I know it was about the art and the experience, and not just the writing of a check.  This is a great, fun hobby.  How about we all try and remember that. 

[Subby1938]

6 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Some of the commission snark on this thread is pretty gross.  You guys are true buzz kills.  To the consigners, congrats and I know it was about the art and the experience, and not just the writing of a check.  This is a great, fun hobby.  How about we all try and remember that. 

Funny thing is I haven’t seen a single commission on this thread I didn’t like . All amazing and I bet everyone cherishes them as personal grails . I do . That’s all that matters 

[Subby1938]

On 9/14/2019 at 10:24 PM, First Upgrade said:

Fantastic Four Vol. 2, No. 2, December, 1996.

Scott Williams owns the original splash page so I feel lucky owning redo. I can’t imagine what that published art would sell for I’m thinking 20K+ which makes my piece the only achievable way into cool Lee art I actually want.

[ESeffinga]

After reading this thread, and some of the other recent ones on the board, all I can do is scratch my head in wonder.
I'm going to post this at the risk of making a muddy mess of a few threads, as it's been eating at me for a couple days. Apologies in advance.

In the Neal Adams thread, several people complain that Neal sold his work way back when, and has no entitlement to a percentage of what that old work is valued at today.
For the record, I am one of those people that believes the value in Neal's work is reflected in the work he does today, not yesterday. Just as it was back then.
When Neal was at the top of his game, he could ask top of his game prices for his art and commissions at whatever the market would pay. Just as all artists are. Sure several hundred dollars back then is nothing compared to the 5 and 6 figures the work brings today. But that is the nature of commodities. And when you sell art, you are commoditizing it.

The best anyone can ever hope to do is to maximize the value of the item on the day it is sold. Not tomorrow, next month or 20 years from now. Whether that is price of the physical object. Price of the IP. Price of reproduction. Etc.
So, by extension, I don't believe Jim Lee is "entitled" to a piece of the original art sales after the fact, if either of the original works that these commissions are based on are sold in the future. Not any more than I think he is "entitled" to percentages if either of these 2 commissions sell for twice the original paid price, say 5 years from now.

BUT in this thread it seems some people think Jim is asking (and getting) too much for his commission work today. To me, this doesn't jive.
For certain, I wouldn't pay these prices. But I'm not that kind of fan, and I wouldn't buy them for 1/10th the price. Or get a Namor commission in the first place.

And there is no judgement or harm in that. Just as IMO, there is no harm in Jim getting exactly as much $ as he can, for as long as he can. It's his work, and if anyone deserves top dollar at today's value for his work, it's the creator of it.

If I am going to argue what I have above about him not having a right to the piece of the pie he baked after the fact, I can't in turn also argue that he can't ask whatever he wants for the new pies he bakes today. He absolutely deserves to get whatever he can for his work. I can say I wouldn't buy one, but that's wasted air. Who cares what some guy who isn't interested in a thing thinks about that thing? Or rather than posting hot air, I can simply vote with my wallet and not get one. But what I'm not going to so is try and convince someone else they made the wrong decision.

It's art. We are all drawn to pieces for different reasons. CAF, and this board are littered with pieces that I wouldn't buy with your money, much less my own. But I'm not about to get on here and argue or reason that you should spend your money the way that I would. I'm well aware, that the same is very true for my art and the people on this board.
 

So we have an artist that a good many people have listed in yet another thread on this board, as one of the most influential comic creators of all time. And he has a track record of setting new price records for his art, and the market catching up and even bypassing those prices. Remember when those Hush pages first hit Albert's site at $2000 a pop, and we thought the folks that bought the first few were kinda nutso? I do. And now those folks are laughing all the way to the bank, with what today's prices are on those same pages. So, all I can say is good for Jim. Good for Albert for having the foresight. And good on the folks that get the art that they want.

I mean, to spend $8K, 12K, 15K  + on a piece of paper, you gotta love the stuff right? So to the folks that dig it, go right on loving what you love. Ignore the rest. They don't understand your love for that work, just as I don't understand it. But that really really doesn't matter. You don't need our permission.
When the internet is off, and no one is here to say this $ucks" or "attaboy,"  it'll just be you and your art. Who cares what internet knuckleheads think?

 

Will commission pieces by artist X keep their dollar value going forward?
That's a valid discussion, but IMO anyone buying commissions as investment should get their heads examined anyway.

 

My .02¢ on all three threads.
-e.

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

BUT in this thread it seems some people think Jim is asking (and getting) too much for his commission work today. To me, this doesn't jive.
For certain, I wouldn't pay these prices. But I'm not that kind of fan, and I wouldn't buy them for 1/10th the price. Or get a Namor commission in the first place.

I can't speak for others; only myself. If an artist can get people to pay $15,000, good for him. And honestly, I don't think saying that sharing a cup of coffee with the artist is priceless when tied into a $15,000 commission. It's part of the price.

What I don't understand is how someone can pay that amount. Yes, the art is very good; yes, he is an influential artist, but $15,000 is a lot of money. Particularly when there are a lot of other artists who are excellent but don't command anything like that price.

On a related note, I was wondering how long one of these commissions probably took him to do. Say 2 full days? Two 3/4 days? While value is not a function of time when it comes to art (as compared to say, construction work), it's still something worth thinking about.

So if I wasn't clear before, then add me to the list of "not that kind of fan".

[vodou]

To follow up ES's post, which I completely agree with btw, my "beef" here is that at least two of the "commissions" shown in this thread are recreations.

Did the customers know that's what it was about or did they think (perhaps doing the ol' assume = makes an a.. out of u and me thing?) that they would get their character request and it would be something new? (IIRC this thing started with a marketing description of something like, "one character with simple background". I don't remember the word recreation being part of the discussion. I think $15k is a lot, not for a commission (per se), but for "a recreation", "a redo", "a reinterpretation", whatever word the hobby most prefers today. For $15k I'd want "an original", and that's where I checked in here. I don't collect recreations/et al, they bore the you-know-what out me, even "homages" are difficult (unless handled rather cleverly, my definition of course!) I'd be upset if I made the mistake of not asking (leading with "I don't want or collect recreations, if that's on the table here - I'm out"), just assuming, and got a recreation handed to me. That would be an awful experience, and I'd either want to return it (a messy and trick situation) or nix that as being my fault for not asking upfront and need to turn it out to the market to recoup "whatever"...the piece in all cases would be junk to me. (That's just how I collect. NO RECREATIONS.)

My recent comments were not about Jim Lee. They were not about $15k (per se). They were about commissions at top dollar being turned out as recreations.

[vodou]

2 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

but IMO anyone buying commissions as investment should get their heads examined anyway.

I saw that (bolded) word pop up earlier too, but left it alone. Speculation would be the better word.

[Stefanomjr]

8 minutes ago, vodou said:

 

...Did the customers know that's what it was about or did they think (perhaps doing the ol' assume = makes an a.. out of u and me thing?) that they would get their character request and it would be something new?....I don't remember the word recreation being part of the discussion....

My recent comments were not about Jim Lee. They were not about $15k (per se). They were about commissions at top dollar being turned out as recreations.

Think the CAF description says it all. 

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1572434

[stinkininkin]

11 minutes ago, vodou said:

To follow up ES's post, which I completely agree with btw, my "beef" here is that at least two of the "commissions" shown in this thread are recreations.

Did the customers know that's what it was about or did they think (perhaps doing the ol' assume = makes an a.. out of u and me thing?) that they would get their character request and it would be something new? (IIRC this thing started with a marketing description of something like, "one character with simple background". I don't remember the word recreation being part of the discussion. I think $15k is a lot, not for a commission (per se), but for "a recreation", "a redo", "a reinterpretation", whatever word the hobby most prefers today. For $15k I'd want "an original", and that's where I checked in here. I don't collect recreations/et al, they bore the you-know-what out me, even "homages" are difficult (unless handled rather cleverly, my definition of course!) I'd be upset if I made the mistake of not asking (leading with "I don't want or collect recreations, if that's on the table here - I'm out"), just assuming, and got a recreation handed to me. That would be an awful experience, and I'd either want to return it (a messy and trick situation) or nix that as being my fault for not asking upfront and need to turn it out to the market to recoup "whatever"...the piece in all cases would be junk to me. (That's just how I collect. NO RECREATIONS.)

My recent comments were not about Jim Lee. They were not about $15k (per se). They were about commissions at top dollar being turned out as recreations.

Virtually ALL of the commissions that were asked and paid for were REQUESTING these specific recreations.  I know I don't ever do a commission without having a very specific request from the person paying for the commission.  On very rare occasion, I'll get a dealer's choice request or specification.  The Submariner homage and the Wolverine on the cross homage pieces were ASKED for specifically.

[vodou]

2 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Virtually ALL of the commissions that were asked and paid for were REQUESTING these specific recreations.  I know I don't ever do a commission without having a very specific request from the person paying for the commission.  On very rare occasion, I'll get a dealer's choice request or specification.  The Submariner homage and the Wolverine on the cross homage pieces were ASKED for specifically.

Okay. Then I rescind all of my above comments (but leave them "unedited" for people to pick apart in the future anyway).

Again: if people knew exactly what they were asking for (as confirmed by you Scott), from whom (duh), and the price (again, duh), then it's a private transaction between two willing parties. No biggie.

I do them all the time too, and has been suggested, I'm certain some and maybe all of them would be huge or or or or or or or or even to most everyone and maybe only a few folks would or or even just . No biggie, whether $250 or $25k. 

[stinkininkin]

1 minute ago, vodou said:

Okay. Then I rescind all of my above comments (but leave them "unedited" for people to pick apart in the future anyway).

Again: if people knew exactly what they were asking for (as confirmed by you Scott), from whom (duh), and the price (again, duh), then it's a private transaction between two willing parties. No biggie.

I do them all the time too, and has been suggested, I'm certain some and maybe all of them would be huge or or or or or or or or even to most everyone and maybe only a few folks would or or even just . No biggie, whether $250 or $25k. 

Well, I make mistakes all the time and I just read (in this very thread) that the Submariner commissioner did NOT specify a recreation so at least part of my blather was supposition not supported by facts.  My apologies.  I knew that the Wolverine on the cross WAS specified, and I made assumptions, and we know where that leads.

[Subby1938]

It’s all good. I just love my piece and don’t care about anything else . What I can’t wrap my head around which is more of an interesting discussion than Jim Lees prices ( which is nobody’s business anyways ) is how in 26 years nobody had asked for this Namor piece to be drawn  It’s one of his best pieces ever. Mind blowing 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Subby1938

[stinkininkin]

5 minutes ago, Subby1938 said:

You are incorrect about Namor Hommage being asked for. Clearly you can’t read. He agreed to do NAMOR . That’s what Albert told me and then that was it . I came back on Sunday @ fanexpo and he had chosen on his own to do recreation . Thanks 

Yup, I blew that one!  I clearly can't read!  Read my previous response. Still happy that you got a piece that you love, asked for or not!

Edited September 16, 2019 by stinkininkin