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OA and heat
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52 posts in this topic

I haven't run into this before.  Just moved to a new place and put up some art.  Today, the first sunny and warm day in a while, I happened to move one framed piece and the back was warm to the touch.  The wall was very warm.  I realized that the sun has been beating down on the other side, and since this is a 1920s place, the insulation ain't great.  So I know in an ideal world we'd probably say "don't hang your art on a wall that's hot," but does anyone know the science? Will this damage my artwork eventually?  For now i'm taking it down.

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4 minutes ago, glendgold said:

I haven't run into this before.  Just moved to a new place and put up some art.  Today, the first sunny and warm day in a while, I happened to move one framed piece and the back was warm to the touch.  The wall was very warm.  I realized that the sun has been beating down on the other side, and since this is a 1920s place, the insulation ain't great.  So I know in an ideal world we'd probably say "don't hang your art on a wall that's hot," but does anyone know the science? Will this damage my artwork eventually?  For now i'm taking it down.

I don't know the science, but I think your instincts are correct. Why take a chance? Damned if you don't learn something new every day. Translated to "something to worry about."

Edited by grapeape
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Maybe throw up a lesser piece for a few years, take pictures before and after.

Just kidding!

In my experience, anything hanging over time will exhibit toning from the exposure.

That's why you see mat lines on older framed art.

Good question whether unusual heat accelerates aging.

My amateur guess is yes, especially if accompanied by strong indirect sunlight.

Quality of the original board, and india inks might stave off short-term aging.

Watch out for markers.

But, you know all that.

David

 

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16 minutes ago, glendgold said:

I haven't run into this before.  Just moved to a new place and put up some art.  Today, the first sunny and warm day in a while, I happened to move one framed piece and the back was warm to the touch.  The wall was very warm.  I realized that the sun has been beating down on the other side, and since this is a 1920s place, the insulation ain't great.  So I know in an ideal world we'd probably say "don't hang your art on a wall that's hot," but does anyone know the science? Will this damage my artwork eventually?  For now i'm taking it down.

Yeah I'm not a scientist but I don't think art is meant to be cooked!  :eek:

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I don't know the answer to the question, but just a suggestion if someone confirms what we would all expect (that heat and sun exposure are damaging) -- you may want to consider installing low emissivity film on your windows to try to help reduce the heat gain.

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1 hour ago, glendgold said:

I haven't run into this before.  Just moved to a new place and put up some art.  Today, the first sunny and warm day in a while, I happened to move one framed piece and the back was warm to the touch.  The wall was very warm.  I realized that the sun has been beating down on the other side, and since this is a 1920s place, the insulation ain't great.  So I know in an ideal world we'd probably say "don't hang your art on a wall that's hot," but does anyone know the science? Will this damage my artwork eventually?  For now i'm taking it down.

I tried to get an answer from my restorer/archivist Gordan Christman and while he agreed that light was bad in all the ways that have been covered on these boards before, I couldn't get a straight answer about heat.  Is it damaging and if so, at how high a temp over how long, etc.  I walked away more confused than ever.  If anyone knows or finds out, let us know.  Otherwise, err on the side of caution I guess, especially with valuable, older and more fragile art.

 

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FWIW, there's no light, indirect or otherwise, on the wall.  It just happens to be the interior wall in a room that faces south, so there's strong sunlight warming the stucco, and that's what's creeping through, apparently.  I'm going to guess the temperature of the wall was in the high 80s, which was surprising.  We're getting the house painted white soon, which I hope makes a difference. 

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interesting issue. I live in Miami, and the room where I hang up some of my art I tend to keep fairly dark, with the shades drawn. But I haven't thought to check the back of the frame to see if heat is getting through the walls. Our place isn't quite as vintage as yours, Glen, but I'll be checking that when I get back home.

 

 

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I'll give this a go...forgive laymens terms.

Ridiculously complicated question actually as I'm sure anyone looking into it can attest. The specific system you look at is the most important.  I have some background and studies in chemistry(masters+), art, lasers, art restoration(laser resto of damaged pieces)...The heat will effect the paper, the pencils, the inks, the paints, the glass, the frame etc to some degree. The materials used to create a piece would have different reactions to heat (paints vs. ink, etc.) as they are very different chemically.  The paper is considered at equilibrium when it isn't gaining water or losing it...so take that what's it worth.  Higher water content paper...dries out slower, there will be microscopic size changes to various types of paper and materials due to heat. pH is key in the process, where humidity comes in I believe.  Paper is drying out and will want to tighten (I would imagine causing a darker appearance??).  So darn complicated.  White out will assuredly crack faster for example at higher temperature.  If the heat is dissipated to a high enough degree by either a larger (mass) or materially superior (higher heat absorption in this case) material it will be less important.

My bottom line thought is when I walked into the Library of Congress, it sure wasn't warm in there...Thing's degrade and break down slower at lower temperatures since this technically slows down even molecular motion.  I always go back to the largest law of science I can find and just make a sense call on that.

I don't want to come off as an expert in the field, just want to throw my 2.5c in if it helps.

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Extremes of any kind are not good.  It should not be too hot, too cold, too humid, too bright where ever you have your art.  An environment that is as constant/consistent as possible is what one needs to shoot for.  Heat, light, temperature and humidity are art's enemies.  Try and mitigate them as much as possible. 2c

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3 hours ago, zagain said:

you may want to consider installing low emissivity film on your windows to try to help reduce the heat gain.

Looked into low-UV film for windows, but decided against it when I heard claims that it cooked the spacer in modern double-glaze windows.

Re OP's question: Just one more reason why you should insulate your outside walls (I also have a 1920s house, and proper insulation and air-sealing makes a huge difference in terms of comfort, and the boiler is not running 24/7 during the winter).

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12 hours ago, Alf Pogs said:

I was almost gonna start a new topic: Brittle OA? What's the worst you've seen?

My earliest page is 1990 and it looks perfect. Any strips from the 30's turning to dust?

I have a 1913 Rube Goldberg and it has significant tanning, and it did when I got it, likely from display, but the inks are fine, multiple signatures fine.  Not brittle.  Looks like Strathmore board.  So I just matted and framed it.  

It hangs in indirect north lit room.  Seems fine!

On the other hand, I hung a bronze cover in the same light for a few years, and the artist's later convention signature completely disappeared.

Keep a close eye on fading.

At an antique shop, and this was many years ago, I saw a Doonesbury which was just about gone.  Surely gone by now.

Best, David S. Albright

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The heat causing expansion and contraction might be issues on anything that acts like a binding agent like glue, or maybe even white out. I would imagine the humidity asscoiated with the heat would be more of an issue though.

Keep it out of direct sunlight

Museum or UV high rated glass/plexi in front

Low UV interior lighting

Temperature variances less then 15 degrees 365 days a year

Low humidity enviornment

UV reducing windows/coverings.

 

I would imagine if you just follow those guidelines on displaying art, you will be fine long term.

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If your concern is the thermal energy of the wall, transferring to the frame, and perhaps to the piece of art...perhaps an insulating barrier between the piece of artwork and the wall would inhibit direct transfer of heat? However, if the wall is heating up that much...it could be creating a micro-climate and effecting the ambient temp surrounding the piece too...

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I always feel my walls at the extremes of the season. So the super hot days and the super frigid ones. I do this to check on the internal wall temps. Even with good modern cladding, insulation, and "constant" interior air temps, some temperature swings are bound to happen on certain walls.

Because I have stretched canvas on some exterior walls that do get a bit of full sun at certain times of year (I'm not talking inside, I'm talking about the outside), these are the ones I keep an eye on most. Stretched canvas is a bit more susceptible to what you are asking about than paper. With paper, the only real effect I've noticed over the years is that I had a couple pieces with word bubbles where the wax that was used to stock them on got soft over about a dozen eyars, and the "tail" of one of the bubbles lifted up ever so slightly. I fixed that up with some archival rice glue. No other noticeable issues on the comic pages.

With the canvas pieces, they can get a little tighter than I like in the uper dead of winter. So when it's stupid cold out, I take those pieces off the wall and move them to an inside wall until the temps come back up. I'm talking when it's 0º or 10º out. The rest of the year, the wall might be 5º-8º cooler or warmer than the ambient temp in the room, but the piece could easily be subjected to more differences taking them from my house to yours. I don't see that causing any long term effects. Most comic art is on bristol type board, and that tends to be thick enough to avoid any of the usual super mild humidity/moisture swings.

I would recommend more caution with very thin materials, like drawings on tissue or thin drawing paper. or possibly thinner velum pieces. Or thinner toothy rag papers, as they can and do tend to ripple a bit given enough temp/humidity fluctuations.

In truth the best place for a piece of art, archivally speaking is in a dark cool space.
But then you don't see it. For MY money, I'll take the tradeoff of a little exposure to the elements in exchange for decades of visual (mental and spiritual) enjoyment.

25 years of art on the walls, and that lifted text bubble,'s about as bad as it gets.
Watercolors and marker and sun/fluorescents are an entirely different but very related topic.

 

-e.

 

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For black and white comic art:

Why not frame a copy and keep the original in a portfolio? Why damage the original, and yes it will be slowly damaged, if you don't have to? I have one framed, painted original cover hanging on an interior wall in a room with a 6x8 vinyl spider-man poster covering the already blinded window, so it is light-tight and not affected by temp shift. External wall temp shifts and light will cause all sorts of problems and that risk needs to be considered and will be slow and not apparent until years later when removed from the frame and the waves, tape damage, ink runs or tan shadow are on the art. To each there own, but I like the well stored portfolio system and yes, even that is not 100% risk free, but I feel that it is more sun, theft, fire, water and storm proof that way. 

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11 hours ago, Drewsky said:

For black and white comic art:

Why not frame a copy and keep the original in a portfolio? Why damage the original, and yes it will be slowly damaged, if you don't have to?

I don't because, and this is just personally speaking, looking at a copy of the piece doesn't give me the same feeling.

Now if I had a lot more art from the early years of comics (talking 40s-70s, I'd probably be more cautious than I am. This is an important point, and one I'm not sure I've made clear in the past when talking about how I treat my art. Most of what is hanging on my walls doesn't date before 82, and because of this, I can be a bit more freewheeling, knowing the paper isn't what it was in those previous decades.

I imagine something like this Stuntman piece is a mix of old acidic paper cooking in an attic (those temps regularly swing between the 40s and the low 100s in the course of a year in the Mid-Atlantic area.) and the humidity swings that go along with that. But even if it had been kept indoors, just the way the industrialized wood pulp paper was manufactured in those days all but guaranteed its fate no matter what.

Paper and illo board from the 30s and paper and most commercially available paper and illo boards from the 80s though today are going to be pretty different things. I'm not a paper expert, but it's my understanding that the industry is very aware of color fade, tanning, and long term effects on their materials. Something they never worried about back in the early years, and something the industry really only started paying attention to in the 70s. Depending on who they were and where the artists got their materials from, anytime from then until the late 80s, the quality of the base drawing materials is dependent on artist and what they chose to use. After say, 88 or so, 90% of the industry had moved away from the more acidic paper stocks. And today it's rarely used other than for disposable materials.

I know the commercial art industry really started promoting "acid-free", rag and PH neutral papers in the early 90s.

And kind of like the term "low fat", the term Acid Free gets misused a lot. Especially by framing companies. Even still, a true modern "acid Free mat" should last close to 100 years, which would be good for most everyone's lifetime if they're the one framing it, but long term, someone will need to reframe down the line. You just have to be aware of imported "Acid buffered" mat board being sold as acid free by a lot of cheap discount framers. The buffers can and do fail, though I see so much less of that stuff around now than I did 20 years ago.

Or people can do what I do which is to only use Museum Rag mats on my art.


But then, I do have my pieces hanging on a wall. So there's what goes along with that. (Light/heat/humidity). My pieces don't hang in walls that catch full sun.In my case it's a couple oil paintings that do, but I have blinds on those windows to mitigate that. And the pigments in my oil pieces are much more lightfast than say, a watercolor, which is about the most likely item to fade, after markers, and the pieces I tend to keep as far away from light as I am able. And even then I do hang watercolors. I have a few lovely ones from Jill Thompson. I'm sure if I was to unframe them and check the edges of the watercolor board she painted them on, that I might see a vibrancy difference. But they aren't historically important covers. They aren't published. They were just wee pieces done for fun, that I happen to love seeing in the hall each day when I walk past them. And that little bit of enjoyment x every day for the last 19 years is something I'm happy about. I think back when I had half my collection in a portfolio, and then the feeling I had when I finally set about framing art for every room of the house. The difference in how I feel about even just being home is pretty extraordinary.

I've had a couple pieces on my wall every day for 26+ years now with no ill effects that are perceivable by the human eye. I've re-framed a couple of those oldest pieces because I wasn't 100% sure of the mat sources (hey I wasn't even out of my teens yet), and I can say side by side, they looked no more aged than pieces from the same book/artist that were only ever stored in a portfolio, when laid against one another, after 26 years. including no doubt, some in full sun on a wall somewhere in their past. It's a topic I'm extremely interested in for personal reasons, so it's one I definitely check myself on. If those pages had tanned, you can bet I'd be doing things another way.

But my writing here isn't intended to be me cheerleading for others to do the same. Quite the opposite. I'm just trying to be upfront with whoever cares to read this TLDR on my own personal experiences with my collection. The makeup of which is probably vastly different from many others on this board. It's probably far more recent, and of a very different makeup in terms of substrate, artist material care, and age. Everyone owes it to their collection to be it's best advocate for it's care and how they live with it. In my case, I can be a bit more cavalier, and I get to enjoy it a bit more, since it is out and in my eyesight every day. That tradeoff against the minimalist effects i've had on it in a quarter century is every but worth it to me. Much more so than the wear and tear on say, a car, that i spend so much on, and provides transportation (and enjoyment) but the wear and tear eventually = it's ultimate demise. I would suppose hanging a 1930s piece in pride of place on one's wall for a few years, might be a similar analogy. In that one could derive enjoyment from it, but would be subjecting it to it's ultimate demise. That's not something i'd personally advocate for. But if we're talking a minute bit of color fade for a lifetime of enjoyment of a piece of work... I'll take that lifetime of joy every day, over having it in a portfolio locked away, knowing I'm protecting it's pristine condition for some unknown future viewer I'm assuming will even give a mess about it.

I could (and have) gone on and on.

I found a fairly brief layman's article on Mat boards posted by a company that makes mat cutting equipment, for those whose eyes aren't already bleeding, and that want to know just a little more about mats:
http://www.logangraphic.com/blog/understanding-differences-mat-boards/

Edited by ESeffinga
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