Lifespan of a GA Comic in a new CGC Holder 0

[Wayne-Tec]

Hey guys,

The new CGC slabs are stronger, more durable than previous incarnations. We were once told to submit books for reholdering every X-years to replace microchamber paper, am I correct that is no longer the case? Do we know why?

My main question though: If a GA book sits in a new CGC slab with minimal handling, what is the longest period of time it would be safe to remain there without getting reholdered?

Does anyone have original 2001-2002 era slabs? Have you noticed any changes in the book or does it look identical to when it was originally slabbed?

If you kept a GA book in a new CGC slab (say it was graded today), would we notice anything detrimental to the book if it sat for 20, 30, 40+ years?

[jimbo_7071]

I have several old-label books that I've owned since around 2001. I haven't noticed any changes to the books, but a couple of the thinner slabs have started to bow slightly, so apparently the outer wells aren't perfectly dimensionally stable over time.

The only time I've ever noticed changes to books is when I kept some in Mylar sleeves open at the top; with those books, I noticed some darkening along the top edge (after ~20 years).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by jimbo_7071

[Wayne-Tec]

58 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I have several old-label books that I've owned since around 2001. I haven't noticed any changes to the books, but a couple of the thinner slabs have started to bow slightly, so apparently the outer wells aren't perfectly dimensionally stable over time.

The only time I've ever noticed changes to books is when I kept some in Mylar sleeves open at the top; with those books, I noticed some darkening along the top edge (after ~20 years).

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have any pics of the bowed slabs?

Are they GA books?

[jimbo_7071]

They are GA books. For the most part, the bowing is too slight to show up in a photo. However, I took this picture of the one with the most bowing. With the book lying flat, I was able to slide a dime under the center of the book. A penny wouldn't fit.

[Wayne-Tec]

1 hour ago, jimbo_7071 said:

They are GA books. For the most part, the bowing is too slight to show up in a photo. However, I took this picture of the one with the most bowing. With the book lying flat, I was able to slide a dime under the center of the book. A penny wouldn't fit.

Interesting.

Is there any evidence to suggest that the new 2017 GA slabs would suffer from the same issues?

They are sealed much tighter.

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

Interesting.

Is there any evidence to suggest that the new 2017 GA slabs would suffer from the same issues?

They are sealed much tighter.

I wouldn't expect the tightness of the seal to be a factor one way or the other. The warpage probably has more to do with the material properties of the polymer that was used and with parameters of the injection-molding process.

(It's possible that the warpage occurred at the time of manufacture but that I simply failed to notice it; however, it seems like something I would have noticed.)

If there's less space in a particular slab (between the outer and inner wells) then warpage of the outer well has more potential to cause a spine tic. My old-label slabs vary greatly in thickness and also vary in the tightness of the book within the outer well.

Edited April 2, 2018 by jimbo_7071

[Wayne-Tec]

1 hour ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I wouldn't expect the tightness of the seal to be a factor one way or the other. The warpage probably has more to do with the material properties of the polymer that was used and with parameters of the injection-molding process.

(It's possible that the warpage occurred at the time of manufacture but that I simply failed to notice it; however, it seems like something I would have noticed.)

If there's less space in a particular slab (between the outer and inner wells) then warpage of the outer well has more potential to cause a spine tic. My old-label slabs vary greatly in thickness and also vary in the tightness of the book within the outer well.

Is this warpage only present in the 1 book you photographed?

I don’t own any 2001-2002 era slabs, but with older slabs (say 2004-2011), I’ve noticed inconsistency with how tight they are sealed. I’ve owned GA books that were so loose with the outer well, the sides seemed partially “open.”

The new 2017-2018 slabs are not only much stronger plastic, but they’re sealed much more tightly and securey. Do you think the harder plastic, over time, could warp to the point of slightly opening like it did in the photo you shared?

[telerites]

I wonder if too much is put into determining when to reslab.  Considering I have subbed books that I bought off the shelf in the mid to late 70s that sat in poly bags for most of their existence in a long comic box and they have come back as 9.8s with white pages.  Disclaimer - they were good candidates for subbing and many were unread and not all were 9.8 but none below 9.4 again with good PQ.  Seems like a slab would offer more protection than the poly bog and stuffed into a comic box along with 300 other books. 

[MrBedrock]

I have cracked out a slew of original iteration slabs. The one thing that I have noticed is that the material used to make the inner well tends to yellow and sort of dry out or brittle over time. Some much worse than others. I think improper storage or exposure accelerates this. Fortunately the condition of the plastics in the inner well doesn't seem to affect the book directly to any noticeable degree.

[Wayne-Tec]

14 minutes ago, telerites said:

I wonder if too much is put into determining when to reslab.  Considering I have subbed books that I bought off the shelf in the mid to late 70s that sat in poly bags for most of their existence in a long comic box and they have come back as 9.8s with white pages.  Disclaimer - they were good candidates for subbing and many were unread and not all were 9.8 but none below 9.4 again with good PQ.  Seems like a slab would offer more protection than the poly bog and stuffed into a comic box along with 300 other books. 

I suspect the CGC slab absolutely offers superior protection. That’s one of the incentives of slabbing in the first place.

Question is: What are the long-term effects of sitting inside a slab? Do slabs that came after the 2001-2002 period “warp” or “bow”? Do acidic gases get stuck in the inner well and harm PQ over time? I’m not looking to raise questions if nobody has had any issues. 

But I’m very curious about comics still sitting in 2001-2002 era slabs. Do any other board members still have those books and if so, what is the condition of the slab/book now?

[Wayne-Tec]

5 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

I have cracked out a slew of original iteration slabs. The one thing that I have noticed is that the material used to make the inner well tends to yellow and sort of dry out or brittle over time. Some much worse than others. I think improper storage or exposure accelerates this. Fortunately the condition of the plastics in the inner well doesn't seem to affect the book directly to any noticeable degree.

Have these issues of yellow/brittle inner wells occurred only with 2001-2002 era slabs?

Have you noticed any similar issues with later iterations of the slab?

[MrBedrock]

1 minute ago, Wayne-Tec said:

8 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

I have cracked out a slew of original iteration slabs. The one thing that I have noticed is that the material used to make the inner well tends to yellow and sort of dry out or brittle over time. Some much worse than others. I think improper storage or exposure accelerates this. Fortunately the condition of the plastics in the inner well doesn't seem to affect the book directly to any noticeable degree.

Have these issues of yellow/brittle inner wells occurred only with 2001-2002 era slabs?

Have you noticed any similar issues with later iterations of the slab?

I am guessing that CGC may have changed the materials used in the inner well at some point in the early years. The yellowing and brittling is only pronounced in the early ones. I am sorry I can't provide a cut-off date.

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

Is this warpage only present in the 1 book you photographed?

I don’t own any 2001-2002 era slabs, but with older slabs (say 2004-2011), I’ve noticed inconsistency with how tight they are sealed. I’ve owned GA books that were so loose with the outer well, the sides seemed partially “open.”

The new 2017-2018 slabs are not only much stronger plastic, but they’re sealed much more tightly and securey. Do you think the harder plastic, over time, could warp to the point of slightly opening like it did in the photo you shared?

That slab has the most bowing of any that I've noticed, but I've seen a slight amount in others, too.

Just to clarify, the slab is not opening; the dime is slid between the table top and the slab itself, not between the two halves of the slab.

[Sqeggs]

1 hour ago, MrBedrock said:

I have cracked out a slew of original iteration slabs. The one thing that I have noticed is that the material used to make the inner well tends to yellow and sort of dry out or brittle over time. Some much worse than others. I think improper storage or exposure accelerates this. Fortunately the condition of the plastics in the inner well doesn't seem to affect the book directly to any noticeable degree.

Interesting.  First time I've heard that.  I have some slabs I submitted right at the beginning.  Maybe I should dig them out and see if anything going on with the inner well is visible through the slab.

[Sqeggs]

1 hour ago, Wayne-Tec said:

I suspect the CGC slab absolutely offers superior protection. That’s one of the incentives of slabbing in the first place.

Question is: What are the long-term effects of sitting inside a slab? Do slabs that came after the 2001-2002 period “warp” or “bow”? Do acidic gases get stuck in the inner well and harm PQ over time? I’m not looking to raise questions if nobody has had any issues. 

But I’m very curious about comics still sitting in 2001-2002 era slabs. Do any other board members still have those books and if so, what is the condition of the slab/book now?

I've heard @joeypost venture the opinion that slabs stored the way most of us do -- upright, rather than flat -- might cause some damage to the book over the long term.

[Dark Knight]

I can see that because one thing I noticed about the older slabs is that the book inside can shift and slide by a minor tap with your hand or table possibly causing SSS. Does not happen with all older slabs. The newer ones are much more harder to move.

[Wayne-Tec]

3 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Interesting.  First time I've heard that.  I have some slabs I submitted right at the beginning.  Maybe I should dig them out and see if anything going on with the inner well is visible through the slab.

Please do so. 

[sacentaur]

5 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

Do acidic gases get stuck in the inner well and harm PQ over time? 

This has been a concern of mine as well, though I haven't seen any data to support an opinion (either way).

While I appreciate that CGC puts a sheet of microchamber paper inside both the front and back covers when encapsulating, I wish they would put a sheet in the centerfold too.

[Wayne-Tec]

5 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

I've heard @joeypost venture the opinion that slabs stored the way most of us do -- upright, rather than flat -- might cause some damage to the book over the long term.

I keep my slabs on their back.

[Wayne-Tec]

5 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

That slab has the most bowing of any that I've noticed, but I've seen a slight amount in others, too.

Just to clarify, the slab is not opening; the dime is slid between the table top and the slab itself, not between the two halves of the slab.

That makes more sense.

But I think storage conditions and degree of handling are extremely important too. If a book has been handled freely for nearly 20 years, stored standing up, in an area with rising and falling temperatures, and/or was slightly warped to begin with (are you sure it wasn’t?), couldn’t all of the above explain why it looks as it does now?

We need a greater sample-size here. If we look at even 10-20 slabs from the 2001-2002 era, how many are warped?