share your personal philosophy, approaches for purchases, offers etc.. 2 2

[Rick2you2]

9 hours ago, Bill C said:

As I'm jumping all over here- there was one time I asked an artist I know to sell me a NFS piece. I sent him an offer over FMV, and he was shocked someone would pay that price for his stuff. He actually got upset as he didn't want to sell (it was a sentimental piece) but the offer must have tempted him. So I was told to not tempt him with any more offers, lol.

If I knew someone was actually upset about the thought of selling something, I would probably withdraw my offer and explain that I didn't want to make someone unhappy about dealing with me. Then, I would leave it up to him. I don't want to be thought of as the guy who ended someone's pleasant memory.  

[dirtymartini1]

[batman_fan]

This story outlines my approach making an offer on artwork.

Step 1.  Looks for the artwork you want to buy.

Step 2.  Research the heck out of prices the artwork has gone for in the past.  Don't take the approach of looking with a mindset of how cheap stuff has gone for but more what is the maximum.

Step 3.  Take the amount you identified in Step 2 and multiple by 2.

Step 4.  Make sure you have at least the full amount identified in Step 3 in cash.

Step 5.  If you achieve Step4, make the offer.  You could try to start by offering 1.75x and save the 0.25 as potential up bargaining.

This approach has proven the most successful for me.

[The Voord]

9 hours ago, batman_fan said:

This story outlines my approach making an offer on artwork.

Step 1.  Looks for the artwork you want to buy.

Step 2.  Research the heck out of prices the artwork has gone for in the past.  Don't take the approach of looking with a mindset of how cheap stuff has gone for but more what is the maximum.

Step 3.  Take the amount you identified in Step 2 and multiple by 2.

Step 4.  Make sure you have at least the full amount identified in Step 3 in cash.

Step 5.  If you achieve Step4, make the offer.  You could try to start by offering 1.75x and save the 0.25 as potential up bargaining.

This approach has proven the most successful for me.

So if Batman fan approaches you on any NFS stuff, remember that when he makes you a cash offer he's holding back on the full amount available (see Step 5). 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by The Voord

[chromium]

I can't be the only one to have gotten an offer where the buyer actually did the "math" and "market research" and told me how much I should sell my page for (in detail) ?

Too bad I never kept the email, but it went something like : "A similar page sold for $5000 on Heritage recently, but it was nicer than yours, so yours would be $3500, but Heritage takes almost 25% of the final price, so you would be left with $2625. Also you would have to wait at least a month to get paid, I'm willing to send you $2625 right away'

That was one for the ages

 

Oh and it was marked NFS.

[batman_fan]

5 minutes ago, chromium said:

I can't be the only one to have gotten an offer where the buyer actually did the "math" and "market research" and told me how much I should sell my page for (in detail) ?

Too bad I never kept the email, but it went something like : "A similar page sold for $5000 on Heritage recently, but it was nicer than yours, so yours would be $3500, but Heritage takes almost 25% of the final price, so you would be left with $2625. Also you would have to wait at least a month to get paid, I'm willing to send you $2625 right away'

That was one for the ages

 

Oh and it was marked NFS.

I have gotten several of those. I got one from someone who said I had three nice splashes for Submariner and shouldn’t keep them all. 

Didnt you have some guy hound you to sell your Kirby Demon Splash? 

I find the toughest part of making an offer is you don’t know what the private sales have been which can be drastically different (and higher) than public sales. 

[chromium]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

Didnt you have some guy hound you to sell your Kirby Demon Splash? 

I forgot about that

I was very happy to sell it to you.

Did I tell you that I was basically offered almost double for it the day after I had struck a deal with you from a French "Demon" collector (who knew something like that existed ?) and he did hound me to sell it to him instead.

But he already had similar examples and you really loved it. I lucked out on buying it at a low price so there was no need to squeeze the lemon, it's not always about the money.

 

There was another ex-boardie that asked me to buy a NFS piece from my collection, he seemed like a true collector on the boards, came across like a nice guy so I sold it to him, for maybe 10% more than I paid for it...Two months later he flips it on CAF.

I confronted him about it and he told me "hey I never told you I was buying it for myself". Ok fool me once.

A few months later I put a few new pieces on my CAF and there he was again asking how much I wanted for all three pieces. I didn't even bother to reply any more.

[batman_fan]

33 minutes ago, chromium said:

I forgot about that

I was very happy to sell it to you.

Did I tell you that I was basically offered almost double for it the day after I had struck a deal with you from a French "Demon" collector (who knew something like that existed ?) and he did hound me to sell it to him instead.

But he already had similar examples and you really loved it. I lucked out on buying it at a low price so there was no need to squeeze the lemon, it's not always about the money.

 

There was another ex-boardie that asked me to buy a NFS piece from my collection, he seemed like a true collector on the boards, came across like a nice guy so I sold it to him, for maybe 10% more than I paid for it...Two months later he flips it on CAF.

I confronted him about it and he told me "hey I never told you I was buying it for myself". Ok fool me once.

A few months later I put a few new pieces on my CAF and there he was again asking how much I wanted for all three pieces. I didn't even bother to reply any more.

I truly appreciate you letting it go to me.  It is still one of my favorites.  I never knew you had a much hire offer. If something every happens on my end with it I will let you know. 

I have had a bunch of transactions where someone told me my piece was a grail and would be buried with them only to see it up for sale shortly after. 

[Rick2you2]

8 hours ago, chromium said:

I forgot about that

I was very happy to sell it to you.

Did I tell you that I was basically offered almost double for it the day after I had struck a deal with you from a French "Demon" collector (who knew something like that existed ?) and he did hound me to sell it to him instead.

But he already had similar examples and you really loved it. I lucked out on buying it at a low price so there was no need to squeeze the lemon, it's not always about the money.

 

There was another ex-boardie that asked me to buy a NFS piece from my collection, he seemed like a true collector on the boards, came across like a nice guy so I sold it to him, for maybe 10% more than I paid for it...Two months later he flips it on CAF.

I confronted him about it and he told me "hey I never told you I was buying it for myself". Ok fool me once.

A few months later I put a few new pieces on my CAF and there he was again asking how much I wanted for all three pieces. I didn't even bother to reply any more.

If you ever get any Phantom Stranger art, please keep me in mind. I assure you, you won’t see it flipped. 

[Nexus]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:57 PM, Panelfan1 said:

From the sellers point of view - if you ever wondered if you should sell a piece of art ( speaking about significant amounts here) - here is a lesson I learned from Felix Lu via his recent podcast.  In that episode, Felix said something that I really loved. For those who didn't listen , this was where Felix got an offer for a piece of art he owned but didn't sell the art -saying that most likely - he was the crazy guy who would spend at least as much as the offer or more if that same item came to auction again.  So if you are the crazy guy that would pay the higher price for your art today - keep the art. ha ha.

Heh...just rationalization on my part, no lesson intended!

However, maybe this will be more instructive (something I've mentioned before on the podcast): Learn collectors' tendencies. Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. A lot of people will put "NFS" on their pieces. But you'll learn that "NFS" covers a spectrum. It's a sliding scale, depending on the collector.

There are collectors for whom "NFS" really means "NFS". For them, if you're going to make an offer, you have to go big to have a shot. It may not be worth it. But don't bother with trying to construct an argument for FMV. It'll be a non-starter with this type, and you'll just be seen as a pain in the .

OTOH, for most everyone else, "NFS" means "negotiate for sale". This often includes pieces which are described as "grails". You just have to pay attention. It doesn't happen as much anymore, but there used to be guys who'd breathlessly post art days here. And you could reply "GLWTS!" to save time and cut to the chase. Those guys, you just have to wait out. It's just a matter of "when" and "how much".

So newbies...put in your time to learn!

[Nexus]

 

On 4/6/2018 at 8:21 PM, Flambit said:

And my philosophy is basically the same.  When you come, you should come correct.  The onus - and I was going to use that exact word - is on the buyer.  Be polite.  I feel sorry for some of the responses some of you have received.  People badgering gallery owners into coming up with a price, or saying they don't feel comfortable doing that.  Then don't inquire!  I feel like you better be willing to offer a figure or a trade piece that isn't an insult.  If not, you'll always be remembered to that seller as the guy looking for the bargain and you'll pretty much lose access to the piece you want (if you wanted it to begin with).  Or, at least, you'll have to fight to make up all the ground you lost by looking like a jerk. 

This. All day long.

If a newbie either lowballs or asks for a price instead of making an offer, I'll usually give them a pass because they're still learning. But if a veteran collector does that? They deserve all the derision and mocking that's due them. Should absolutely know better.

 

 

[Nexus]

On 4/7/2018 at 4:32 PM, The Voord said:

One positive story I do have (it's not all bad) about a collector approaching me about NFS stuff in CAF galleries . . .

Several years ago I received an enquiry about one of my EC covers.  The cover in question was a firm favourite with me but, at the time, I was aware that similar quality covers being auctioned through Heritage were (then) fetching serious money.  From the courteous tone and content of the approach I received (together with a perusal of the other collector's on-line gallery which contained many high-end examples) my gut-feeling was that I was dealing with a serious enquiry.

Instead of pursuing my more usual, "Make me a strong offer and I'll listen" approach, I referenced the recent Heritage sales results for comparative examples.  Using these sales figures as a yardstick, which I advised,  a FMV price was consequently agreed upon and I released the EC cover to the other collector . . . along the way making another good friend in the hobby.

I believe I saw this cover in person over the weekend. It's a great one! And very cool bonus for two like-minded collectors to become friends, to boot!

[Rick2you2]

9 hours ago, Bill C said:

The only "off" experience I ever had when someone cold contacted me about something I owned that was listed NFS was when a guy wanted to buy a cover of mine. I pleasantly explained that that particular piece was truly NFS. He then proceeded to boldly inform me that the art was stolen and that he knew the artist.

So, in other words, he wanted to engage in the trafficking of stolen art? You could have politely reminded him that he just confessed to the intent to commit a felony. 

[vodou]

8 hours ago, Nexus said:

It doesn't happen as much anymore, but there used to be guys who'd breathlessly post art days here. And you could reply "GLWTS!" to save time and cut to the chase.

Well let's not forget the lesson RickyBobby is presently learning! There's always a new guy out there still learning the ropes

Those types still haunt Comicart-L, and I get a chuckle every time I see the art days posts from the, though even there the foolishness has dropped off quite a bit.

I think it's generally understood (by those types) that if that's your m.o., it's better to prosper quietly and under cover of darkness.

[vodou]

2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

So, in other words, he wanted to engage in the trafficking of stolen art? You could have politely reminded him that he just confessed to the intent to commit a felony. 

Too funny of course, but this hobby especially seems to be populated with people that are quick to blast others and yet remain blissfully and permanently unaware of their own shortcomings (or worse). It's my distinct pleasure to call out hypocrisy whenever and wherever I see it. It's beautiful, because if true hypocrisy, there is no intellectually honest rebuttal available.

[Khazano]

On 2018-04-09 at 6:04 AM, chromium said:

I can't be the only one to have gotten an offer where the buyer actually did the "math" and "market research" and told me how much I should sell my page for (in detail) ?

Too bad I never kept the email, but it went something like : "A similar page sold for $5000 on Heritage recently, but it was nicer than yours, so yours would be $3500, but Heritage takes almost 25% of the final price, so you would be left with $2625. Also you would have to wait at least a month to get paid, I'm willing to send you $2625 right away'

That was one for the ages

 

Oh and it was marked NFS.

Oh this has happened to me more than once. And usually the auctions being quoted off heritage are years old... But even if they weren't this is  when I send an email back explaining I'm not selling at FMV for a NFS piece. As I don't want to sell it for that. They're paying me to let go of something I don't want too, and it'll cost 10x FMV to do so... I usually don't hear back after that.

[stinkininkin]

12 hours ago, Nexus said:

Heh...just rationalization on my part, no lesson intended!

However, maybe this will be more instructive (something I've mentioned before on the podcast): Learn collectors' tendencies. Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. A lot of people will put "NFS" on their pieces. But you'll learn that "NFS" covers a spectrum. It's a sliding scale, depending on the collector.

There are collectors for whom "NFS" really means "NFS". For them, if you're going to make an offer, you have to go big to have a shot. It may not be worth it. But don't bother with trying to construct an argument for FMV. It'll be a non-starter with this type, and you'll just be seen as a pain in the .

OTOH, for most everyone else, "NFS" means "negotiate for sale". This often includes pieces which are described as "grails". You just have to pay attention. It doesn't happen as much anymore, but there used to be guys who'd breathlessly post art days here. And you could reply "GLWTS!" to save time and cut to the chase. Those guys, you just have to wait out. It's just a matter of "when" and "how much".

So newbies...put in your time to learn!

This post nails it.

[mister_not_so_nice]

Grail Today 

Sale Tomorrow 

 

 

But in all fairness, it's only because a new, shinier grail just became available 

[SuperChris]

I usually don't even bother, as I take collectors at their word when they write "NFS." That being said, I did it once. I knew exactly what the owner had paid (though I didn't say that), and I just offered 4x that amount. He accepted, and we completed the sale. If he had countered, I would have just moved on, no hard feelings. This was a page that originally sold for < $100 though, so it's not like I was offering 4x a $2,000 page (or $8K). It just so happened that it was a panel page from a storyline that meant something to me personally. I love the page though, and am extremely happy to own it now. I'm glad I took the chance and reached out to the owner!

[gumbydarnit]

I think one thing you have to consider in today market is today's high prices make collectors sell pieces that they bought without the intention to flip to acquire a larger piece. Often it gives the appearance of a flip, but it wasn't the initial intent.

I think you have to let pieces go knowing that they may not stay with the new owner very long. Selling and trading are the only way for many to stay active in the hobby and so the movement of pieces is something that has to be accepted, and once a piece is gone from my collection I don't fret if it is quickly traded or sold.. it is, after all, our currency. When a new art opportunity presents itself, and you don't have funds in your bank... you can make a withdrawal from your comic art collection.


 

Edited April 12, 2018 by gumbydarnit