Price Per Point is Not a Thing...for Golden Age 5 5

[Hudson]

Of course all this really only matters if you want to buy and sell.   As a "collector" with no interest in selling, the FMV is not as important.  Regrettably the world of comics has turned and is far more of a business than it once was.   Thus the ability to "perfectly" price every book becomes the ultimate goal.  

 

No no disrespect to sellers, as without them I would not be able to buy.  

[Ricksneatstuff]

6 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

You are definitely braver about your purchases Me, I just look for the pretty pictures and the stories, lol.  I  check pricing in the hope to find something that maybe if I NEED to sell it, or I want to trade for something later on, I won't lose too much. I just sold a bunch of stuff I had for at least 15 years and I still put 1/2 back because once I saw the pictures I couldn't part with them;)

 

Brave = reckless

 

[G.A.tor]

I started the whole “price per Cgc point” as an easy tool to allow me to know when I should buy a SA or BA key book (I didn’t use gpa back then, so it was my cheat sheet method).  

IE if I knew I could sell a Hulk 1 at $x per grade point then it was easy for me to know when to buy, etc

i never used my formula for GA (at least not back then) because there were just too many variables 

 

the entire ppp model that has since grown is not linear by any means 

it generally doesn’t work on entry level or scarce books 

i used it for 2.0 to 5.0 books where the pricing seemed to be linear/arithmetic vs higher grades which are more exponential in nature as the grade improves. 

But the model does work and works well when properly applied

 

[Point Five]

I try to use it to get NG books for free.

 

[Robot Man]

I swim usually in the shallow end of the pool so it isn't a big factor to me anyway. But I agree with Rick on the stuff he and I like. The market is so volitile on GA books like Baker, PCH, Crime and esoteric stuff it's pretty impossible to keep track. One day's "high price" is tomorrow's bargain it seems. Books seem to overheat almost every day. There are no rules on this stuff.

I have always felt that for every 4-5 high grade collectors, there are 100 collectors at the bottom of the food chain that just want to own a copy. Prices on both extremes seem to soar while mid grade stuff is a little more stow. It has always been this way. Nice presenting 4.0-7.0 books are the most appealing to me lately for this reason. Sometimes, the best I can find is a 2.0. I have learned on a rare book to pounce on it rather than end up without a copy at all. 

Price per point on SA and BA books work to an extent but the gloves come off when it comes to scarce, in demand GA books. Buy it or wish you had...

[Hudson]

8 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

 

I have always felt that for every 4-5 high grade collectors, there are 100 collectors at the bottom of the food chain that just want to own a copy.

I agree with you 100% on this one, Bob.

The perfect example of this is perhaps the recent price realized by the 1.0 copy of Suspense Comics #3.

[rjpb]

PPP is a useful tool for some GA books, but is generally only good for 2.0-5.0 books at most. Hot books, scarce books, and HTF in better than low grade books, it has less use, but even there can be helpful sometimes in extrapolating a value range. If you know 2 copies of Comic X sold recently at 1x-1.2x PP in both 2.0 and 4.5 grade, you can figure what it's probably worth in 3.0. Other factors, like eye-appeal can come into play, and in an auction format anything can happen, but its a starting point. 

With more common and less desirable books the PPP can hold to 6.0, but with some genres and companies, it seems to become irrelevant above 4.0. Below 2.0, it's more about eye-appeal than anything else IMHO. 

It's just another variable to consider, like the Guide, GPA, recent high and low sales, and recent prices of books with a similar collectors focus and price history.

[skypinkblu]

1 hour ago, Point Five said:

I try to use it to get NG books for free.

 

I have some NB NG books I can send you;) 

[Aman619]

I always took the price pr point discussions as just parlor talk-- casual observations about the direction of pricing on books that trade often and for greater sums of money. Obviously (to me) like all our other metrics at use (GPA, Overstreet) it's no more a perfect math system for valuing all books in all grades!  

[comicjack]

59 minutes ago, Hudson said:

I agree with you 100% on this one, Bob.

The perfect example of this is perhaps the recent price realized by the 1.0 copy of Suspense Comics #3.

Because of the demand and the lack of mid or highgrade copies was the engine that pushed the price.If you want one you most likely will bleed to obtain a copy or maybe not, money isn't everything in some cases !

[BuscemasAvengers]

The discussion here has been excellent for both buyers and sellers.  Assurance seems to be the common theme: we want to be able to determine with as much certainty as possible what the price point is for a purchase or sale.  There has to be some sort of baseline data to begin the conversation and, as a minimum, most of us can access that from different sources.  The 'scarcity" thing can be tricky.  The Census can lead us to believe a book is scarce for the simple fact that only a small number of them have been submitted for slabbing.  The reality might be quite different.  Apart from shilling and other corrupt practices which inflate market value, I would hope true sales data of scarce or readily available books is a decent place to start.  Discovering trends in GA books: now there's an art!  Why is it that a genre like GGA books are now collectable? You see it at Heritage, with a higher presence of GGA books in their weekly auctions.  Is the interest 'contrived', or is there something else going on?

[Robot Man]

I obviously deal in other collectibles other than comic books. Ultimately, they are only worth what some one is willing to pay. I do shows selling old toys, advertising, sports memorabilia and comic books all the time. I hear all the time that "It isn't worth that". Take a Suspense #3 to 7 Eleven and try and get a six pack with it. What do you think will happen? Other than us passionate collectors, this stuff is mere junk to most people. We all have a limit as to what we want or can afford to pay for something. If you want more than I am willing to pay, I understand you want it more than I do. Period...

[Robot Man]

1 hour ago, Hudson said:

I agree with you 100% on this one, Bob.

The perfect example of this is perhaps the recent price realized by the 1.0 copy of Suspense Comics #3.

I would LOVE to have a 1.0 Suspense #3. Had a chance once and cheaped out. Have kicked myself ever since. That ship has sailed for me I'm afraid...

[Hudson]

8 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

I would LOVE to have a 1.0 Suspense #3. Had a chance once and cheaped out. Have kicked myself ever since. That ship has sailed for me I'm afraid...

Join the boat (the boat I am in).  I can't tell you how many of these I passed on thinking another would come along.  I think the ship sailed on this one for me as well.

[G.A.tor]

Again, to reiterate, I started the ppp method some 12 years ago to assist me in buying and selling silver and bronze keys. 

I know it’s expanded and taken a life of its own, but the intention was really just a quick cheat sheet for me when buying and selling at cons. 

Its by no means 100% accurate ( even then) etc but it did help me quickly determine if I wanted to buy a book or not 

i wrote a big article for ospg market reports about this, but as those early folks I shared my ppp methodology with know , it never made its way to mark hussmans email and never saw the light of day. But I’ve still got it in a sent email , somewhere on an old computer !

Edited April 9, 2018 by G.A.tor

[jhm]

I've personally done a ton of study on the comic market as a whole over the past ~3 years. PPP assumes a linear relationship between grade and price, which does exist in some books, but RARELY in GA. It generally exists in the books where there are high volumes of sales and only within a tight band of low-mid grades (easily attainable silver/bronze stuff). And that tight band depends on the individual book.

In GA, even with the most frequently sold books, linear relationships between grade and $$ just don't exist in any sort of predictable manner... even in those low-mid grade bands.

The algorithm I personally use to price books is based on grade, past sales, relational values of past sales (i.e. what were 4.0's selling for when that 9.2 sold in the open market), quantity in CGC census at given grade and above, how often the book has sold over the past year (in any grade), and on and on. It's non-linear... and (frankly) very difficult to apply any sort of rules to when speaking in general terms. The algorithm works really great to predict estimates in the silver age and later. It proves to be time and time again in the GA market where are logic is thrown out the window  But I think that's part of the reason I love the GA stuff.

At the end of the day, if it works for you - use it!

[ThothAmon]

2 hours ago, Hudson said:

I agree with you 100% on this one, Bob.

The perfect example of this is perhaps the recent price realized by the 1.0 copy of Suspense Comics #3.

How much did it go for? 

[sacentaur]

6 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

I'd LOVE to use this marketplace, but it seems the trend by some people lately is to erase asking prices, sold prices. I am not sure why that is being done, because it was always very helpful )at least to me, to see that information.

It can be quite helpful when prices remain visible after a transaction, but even then we often see "I'll take it per PM". To me, this basically invalidates the asking price - was a trade negotiated via PM, was a discount given via PM, were other extenuating circumstances extended via PM, etc.?

Of course both buyer and seller are entitled to their privacy, and it's good when a deal is struck via PM, but as a reference tool such privately negotiated transactions cannot be used as a reference tool.

[Primetime]

15 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

How much did it go for? 

21k

[N e r V]

6 minutes ago, sacentaur said:

It can be quite helpful when prices remain visible after a transaction, but even then we often see "I'll take it per PM". To me, this basically invalidates the asking price - was a trade negotiated via PM, was a discount given via PM, were other extenuating circumstances extended via PM, etc.?

Of course both buyer and seller are entitled to their privacy, and it's good when a deal is struck via PM, but as a reference tool such privately negotiated transactions cannot be used as a reference tool.

A lot of “regular” dealers will give you discounts of some sort based on book, how often you buy from them and how much you’re buying at the time.

The PM thing on the boards seems much higher to me because I think the amount of people trying to flip books quickly for income is much higher vs playing the long game for their returns. Not a bad thing just my observation.