jimbo_7071 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, Timely said: There are slightly over 400 Timely superhero issues from 1939-1955. John probably has 375 of them. He told me he was only missing a handful Are they free of color touch and glue for the most part? Sadly, many of the Church copies have amateur resto. I'm not sure who's responsible, but it must be someone who owned a number of different runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said: 20 minutes ago, Timely said: There are slightly over 400 Timely superhero issues from 1939-1955. John probably has 375 of them. He told me he was only missing a handful Are they free of color touch and glue for the most part? Sadly, many of the Church copies have amateur resto. I'm not sure who's responsible, but it must be someone who owned a number of different runs. I don't think that was true of many (any?) of the Church copies that Heritage just finished auctioning. Not necessarily relevant, of course, to what may have happened to some of the Timely superhero books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, jimbo_7071 said: Are they free of color touch and glue for the most part? Sadly, many of the Church copies have amateur resto. I'm not sure who's responsible, but it must be someone who owned a number of different runs. Only a tiny, tiny percentage of the books have color touch. Sadly, it includes a number of the big keys most often "improved" by John Snyder as the temptation was simply too great not to make nearly perfect books, "perfect." The Church copy of Cap 1 was color touched which is why Verzyl leaped on the Allentown when it became available. jimbo_7071 and originalisbest 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo_7071 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, adamstrange said: Only a tiny, tiny percentage of the books have color touch. Sadly, it includes a number of the big keys most often "improved" by John Snyder as the temptation was simply too great not to make nearly perfect books, "perfect." The Church copy of Cap 1 was color touched which is why Verzyl leaped on the Allentown when it became available. Wasn't the cover cleaned on the Cap 1? I'm glad it was only a tiny percentage of books that were altered. Does the Allentown Cap 1 have cream-to-off-white pages? I don't think a book with that page quality should ever be graded NM/MINT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said: Wasn't the cover cleaned on the Cap 1? I'm glad it was only a tiny percentage of books that were altered. Yes. https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/captain-america-comics-1-mile-high-pedigree-timely-1941-cgc-apparent-vf-nm-90-slight-p-off-white-pages-the-united-st/a/809-3330.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_react Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 17 hours ago, G.A.tor said: I think the 9.8 Allentown cap 1 easily breaks 2 mil. Probably 2.5 mil. Maybe the 10x @2.85 i asked John once a few years ago what he had his collection insured for. He was a bit coy but didn’t deny it was more than 25 mil thats a lot of coin I don't know where the $285,000 number came from. I've had that selling for $260,000 for many, many years. That's from Overstreet, at the time. Regardless... the idea that the Allentown Cap #1 would only sell for 4x what it sold for in 2001, with all that's gone on, is crazy to me. I hate spending other people's money with predictions, but $1,000,000 for that book happens without effort. Fact: I would sell my house to buy that book for $1,000,000. Trolling: if the Marvel Comics #1 is a 9.6 the Captain America Comics #1 (9.8) sells for more. Super Trolling: Even i they're both 9.8s, the Captain America book sells for more,because Chris Evans and what civilian has even heard of Sub-Mariner and it's not even the right Human Torch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_react Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 2 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said: Are they free of color touch and glue for the most part? Sadly, many of the Church copies have amateur resto. I'm not sure who's responsible, but it must be someone who owned a number of different runs. Definitely not "many." It's a huge collection and the vast majority are untouched. John Snyder is the name that gets the blame (I'm rhyming up in here) although he's not the only person who ever touched the books. jimbo_7071 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_react Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, adamstrange said: Only a tiny, tiny percentage of the books have color touch. Sadly, it includes a number of the big keys most often "improved" by John Snyder as the temptation was simply too great not to make nearly perfect books, "perfect." The Church copy of Cap 1 was color touched which is why Verzyl leaped on the Allentown when it became available. I've got to read longer into these threads so as not to answer the same question twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, rob_react said: I've got to read longer into these threads so as not to answer the same question twice. Wasn’t the church cap 1 also cleaned? jimbo_7071 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szav Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, rob_react said: I don't know where the $285,000 number came from. I've had that selling for $260,000 for many, many years. That's from Overstreet, at the time. Regardless... the idea that the Allentown Cap #1 would only sell for 4x what it sold for in 2001, with all that's gone on, is crazy to me. I hate spending other people's money with predictions, but $1,000,000 for that book happens without effort. Fact: I would sell my house to buy that book for $1,000,000. Trolling: if the Marvel Comics #1 is a 9.6 the Captain America Comics #1 (9.8) sells for more. Super Trolling: Even i they're both 9.8s, the Captain America book sells for more,because Chris Evans and what civilian has even heard of Sub-Mariner and it's not even the right Human Torch. My memory sucks but didn’t you have a thread or a web article on the top 10 books in the hobby? I was surprised not to see the cap #1 Cgc 9.8 on that list. I’d be shocked to see it get less than 2 mil. The all star 8 Cgc 9.4 almost got a mil. This book is so far above that one for so many reasons. But that begs the question, is an auction even the best venue to sell this sort in obscenely high graded iconic book? Maybe the family could get more working a private sale. I’d be nervous sending it to auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 hour ago, szavisca said: My memory sucks but didn’t you have a thread or a web article on the top 10 books in the hobby? I was surprised not to see the cap #1 Cgc 9.8 on that list. I’d be shocked to see it get less than 2 mil. The all star 8 Cgc 9.4 almost got a mil. This book is so far above that one for so many reasons. But that begs the question, is an auction even the best venue to sell this sort in obscenely high graded iconic book? Maybe the family could get more working a private sale. I’d be nervous sending it to auction. Unless I received an offer that knocked my socks off (translation: well above what I think anyone else is likely to pay), I'd auction it. There may be somebody out there that you (and the auction house or whoever you are relying on to locate a buyer) never heard of or who no one was aware is in the market for the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_react Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 hour ago, szavisca said: My memory sucks but didn’t you have a thread or a web article on the top 10 books in the hobby? I was surprised not to see the cap #1 Cgc 9.8 on that list. I’d be shocked to see it get less than 2 mil. The all star 8 Cgc 9.4 almost got a mil. This book is so far above that one for so many reasons. But that begs the question, is an auction even the best venue to sell this sort in obscenely high graded iconic book? Maybe the family could get more working a private sale. I’d be nervous sending it to auction. The Cap #1, as of right now, is just off the top 10 and the cut-off for the top ten is just over $2,000,000. For many years it was something like 15-20th on the list. szav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szav Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: Unless I received an offer that knocked my socks off (translation: well above what I think anyone else is likely to pay), I'd auction it. There may be somebody out there that you (and the auction house or whoever you are relying on to locate a buyer) never heard of or who no one was aware is in the market for the book. I know there’s no answer to this but its interesting to ponder... how much more if anything is this cap 1 worth as a highest graded due to it being a 9.8 vs what it would be as a 9.6 or 9.4... To me this book isn’t just the highest graded cap 1, it is the highest graded GA megakey...and I think it’s the only 9.8 among them all. I’d personally have HA seek out buyers on my behalf and solicit offers, and see if they could pry an insane offer out of anyone. I suspect they’d allready be taking offers on it at this point anyway even if unofficially. Anyway I suppose if the owner is worried about not getting full value for it at auction they can just put a ridiculous reserve on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzabar Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 4 hours ago, szavisca said: I know there’s no answer to this but its interesting to ponder... how much more if anything is this cap 1 worth as a highest graded due to it being a 9.8 vs what it would be as a 9.6 or 9.4... To me this book isn’t just the highest graded cap 1, it is the highest graded GA megakey...and I think it’s the only 9.8 among them all. I’d personally have HA seek out buyers on my behalf and solicit offers, and see if they could pry an insane offer out of anyone. I suspect they’d allready be taking offers on it at this point anyway even if unofficially. Anyway I suppose if the owner is worried about not getting full value for it at auction they can just put a ridiculous reserve on it. I think that if the Church Timely books do come to auction through Heritage they would probably do something like what has been done with prominent coin collection like the Gardner collection that Heritage auctioned or the D. Brent Pogue collection that Stacks/Sotheby's did. The books would be spread out over a series of auctions as opposed to being all in one auction. There might be reserves on some of the major books just as there were on some of the Pogue coins. I'm sure it would be marketed as the John Verzyl collection of Mile High Timely Comics. originalisbest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareHighGrade Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 In scrolling through the auction results, I noticed this book with what appears to be a significant description error by Heritage. Apart from the atypical low grade (4.0 with detached cover and rusted staple), CGC did not designate this as the Church copy. Based on my familiarity with the pencil "S" books, I would agree with CGC. https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/miss-america-comics-1-mile-high-pedigree-timely-1944-cgc-vg-40-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7187-94151.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 The book went for close to 4X Guide, so the buyer may have relied on the erroneous description. Junkdrawer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkdrawer Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 59 minutes ago, RareHighGrade said: In scrolling through the auction results, I noticed this book with what appears to be a significant description error by Heritage. Apart from the atypical low grade (4.0 with detached cover and rusted staple), CGC did not designate this as the Church copy. Based on my familiarity with the pencil "S" books, I would agree with CGC. https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/miss-america-comics-1-mile-high-pedigree-timely-1944-cgc-vg-40-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7187-94151.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 The book went for close to 4X Guide, so the buyer may have relied on the erroneous description. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 hour ago, RareHighGrade said: In scrolling through the auction results, I noticed this book with what appears to be a significant description error by Heritage. Apart from the atypical low grade (4.0 with detached cover and rusted staple), CGC did not designate this as the Church copy. Based on my familiarity with the pencil "S" books, I would agree with CGC. https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/miss-america-comics-1-mile-high-pedigree-timely-1944-cgc-vg-40-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7187-94151.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 The book went for close to 4X Guide, so the buyer may have relied on the erroneous description. Good catch. I think it's probably the result of using a template to create the listing. "Mile High pedigree" was used often enough in this auction that whoever put together the listing just forgot to strip it out for this one. CLink has this problem fairly often when you can tell that the write-up was meant for either an entirely different book or for a copy of the book in a very different grade from a previous auction. I'm sure Heritage will accept a return if the winner notices the problem at some point. If the winner is on the boards, maybe he or she will be alerted by your post. originalisbest, jimbo_7071 and jimjum12 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmg3637 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 So we are speculating on how the John Verzyl accumulation will be dispersed by the heirs and or estate Especially all of the Mile High Books he had . Was wondering if the Mile Highs in the auction completed last week were also from his personal stash? I was certainly bidding a few of the Four Colors as if they were. Never thought I would even be close on any of them, but was actually the underbidder on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straw-Man Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 On 5/13/2018 at 5:12 PM, rob_react said: Definitely not "many." It's a huge collection and the vast majority are untouched. John Snyder is the name that gets the blame (I'm rhyming up in here) although he's not the only person who ever touched the books. didn't mclaughlin's cat "touch" a few? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straw-Man Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 On 5/14/2018 at 1:35 AM, Alzabar said: I think that if the Church Timely books do come to auction through Heritage they would probably do something like what has been done with prominent coin collection like the Gardner collection that Heritage auctioned or the D. Brent Pogue collection that Stacks/Sotheby's did. The books would be spread out over a series of auctions as opposed to being all in one auction. There might be reserves on some of the major books just as there were on some of the Pogue coins. I'm sure it would be marketed as the John Verzyl collection of Mile High Timely Comics. i doubt those church timelys'll generate much interest. auction fatigue, ya' know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
