My Favourite Story from C2E2 0

[jimjum12]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:12 PM, blazingbob said:

My response was more based on this "The Seller would of course love to sell the key books but to part with the eye candy they want a premium price".  

If I wanted to bring books to shows for "showings" I would basically setup as a museum and charge admission.  I would probably make more money at a show if I just charged customers that are just curious a fee for taking pictures of the book.

I'm there to sell books,  unfortunately as I've said before I don't know what each person's idea of "unrealistic" is.  Could be I'm priced over OSPG.  Could be I'm way over GPA.  Could be I don't use 90-120 day GPA pricing.  Unless buyers and sellers communicate it is not that easy to come up with a person's expectations.  

I'll use an example of what people might consider unrealistic.

If I put a price of $4250 on a House of Secrets #92 9.0 with offwhite/white pages or better and nice registeration am I unrealistic?

Last sale was $3750.

Before you reply I was asked for this book 5-10 times the FIRST day.

 

I have never lost money on a book I bought from you.....ever. Your price is realistic..... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited April 15, 2018 by jimjum12

[Phantalien]

Whenever I go to cons I never see those books sell.   I never see people carry those books around proud that they bought it.   Some people lurk toward the Vampirella cosplayers to see what's being sold while others make their way to Incredible Hulk #1.   Either way, neither will be going home with a convention attendee.

[Hudson]

I have no clue how "dealers" price books at conventions.   A lot of prices that I see often seem "unrealistic", however, I know that going to a convention can be like going to a used car dealership.  Many dealers are looking to price high and then "negotiate" the price.  Maybe they "need" to get $3k for a book to make a decent profit, but they mark it at $4k in hopes that they get even more than the $3k once the negotiation is done. I don't really know.  I do know that I personally hate to negotiate, so high tags usually make me just walk away.  

I would love to see a convention in which the organizers made a rule that every book must be sold as marked or not at all.  In other words a "no negotiation convention", so a guy like me does not have to guess what the "real price" is and whether or not to waste my time at that booth.  I know this will never happen but a guy can dream.  

This is likely the number one reason I don't go to many conventions anymore.   I used to travel all over the place to attend conventions, but I just don't enjoy the whole "negotiation" thing and so with the invent of the web, I find myself traveling less to these things.   

[G.A.tor]

At least I used a different color post it note!

[Hudson]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

At least I used a different color post it note!

.  

i think you are one of the few that price pretty close to actual sell price.  

[G.A.tor]

1 hour ago, Hudson said:

.  

i think you are one of the few that price pretty close to actual sell price.  

It’s all relative. Bob mentioned a hos92. I had a Cgc 9.0 ow/white pager priced at right about what bob was asking, slightly ahead of gpa as that is a trending up book. It was first book to sell Friday morning. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by G.A.tor

[FlyingDonut]

21 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I think we have discussed before the intentional high pricing of hot key books at Cons to attract the casual buyer who may never buy the book but will ogle the keys and buy something else.  The seller would of course love to sell the key books but to part with the eye candy they want a premium price.   

They're museum pieces to bring the casual buyer in who might not stop by, but now that he/she is there, out comes the plastic and $300 of books from your boxes go away. I'd love to sell the Hulk 181, but that book I can move all day long. The VF- X-Men 57 that the guy is buying out of my box at my sticker price? That makes me happy.

Edited April 14, 2018 by FlyingDonut

[Bomber-Bob]

16 hours ago, batman_fan said:

My personal take on buying at cons is if someone has a book I really want and I feel comfortable with the price then I buy it.  I don't look at guide or GPA.  If someone has a book I really want and I don't feel comfortable with the price I ask if there is any room on the price.  If we get to a price I feel comfortable with I buy it.  If they have a book I am mildly interested in but don't like the price I move on.

I've come to take this same tactic. I figure I am going to the con to buy some books and rely more on the comfort factor and don't look any any price guides. I do expect a small discount on the stack though, just for the principle. The discount also adds to the feeling comfortable factor.

[Hudson]

I think that when one dealer starts marking up their prices by some factor over what they actually expect to sell the book for, it puts pressure on other dealers to do the same thing.  Say a "buyer" at a convention becomes accustomed to being able to "negotiate" a dealer down by 20%(arbitrary number), then I believe that buyer becomes conditioned to "expecting" a 20% discount.  If that buyer then goes to a dealer who does not price the same way, then the buyer may feel that he is not getting a "good deal" when that dealer only offers him 15% (the wiggle room that dealer had priced into the equation).  In the end, we have a buyer who might not buy a book that is actually a "fair deal", just because he/she has become accustomed to a greater discount.

[Hudson]

5 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I've come to take this same tactic. I figure I am going to the con to buy some books and rely more on the comfort factor and don't look any any price guides. I do expect a small discount on the stack though, just for the principle. The discount also adds to the feeling comfortable factor.

Bob, I usually agree with you on most things. You have a great reputation on the boards and are well respected.

I can even say that MOST people would likely agree with you, in that someone buying "a stack" should get more of a discount than someone buying a single book.

I, however, do not understand this way of thinking.  If a dealer has priced in say a 20% "wiggle room" factor on his books, then why can't a buyer get that 20% on one book the same as on a stack of say 10?  Now, I am NOT talking about when that single book is a "key".  I am talking about when that single book OR that stack of books is just "run of the mill" books.

Maybe I am missing something here.  I would be happy to hear other opinions on this.

[Hudson]

The last show I went to (last month), I saw a book I was marginally interested in on a dealer's wall.  I could not see the price on it (due to the price tag being hidden behind another book that partially covered the right side of the book I was interested in), so I was hesitant to ask.  I did not want to bother the guy to get the book down if his price was way "out of whack".  The guy, however, started talking to me and seemed friendly enough, so I decided to take a chance and asked him to see the book.  As he took it down, I could see the price and immediately thought it was a little high.  I probably would have looked at the book quickly and politely handed it back, however, almost as soon as he handed the book to me, the guy gave me a different price (About 30% lower than it was marked).  The new price seemed good to me and so without further "negotiation", I bought it.  Not sure why a "dealer" would price a book and then offer at a different price before any "negotiations" began, but I was glad he did.  Had he not, he would have been out a sale and I would not have the book.

Any thoughts on this dealer "tactic"?

[1Cool]

44 minutes ago, Hudson said:

The last show I went to (last month), I saw a book I was marginally interested in on a dealer's wall.  I could not see the price on it (due to the price tag being hidden behind another book that partially covered the right side of the book I was interested in), so I was hesitant to ask.  I did not want to bother the guy to get the book down if his price was way "out of whack".  The guy, however, started talking to me and seemed friendly enough, so I decided to take a chance and asked him to see the book.  As he took it down, I could see the price and immediately thought it was a little high.  I probably would have looked at the book quickly and politely handed it back, however, almost as soon as he handed the book to me, the guy gave me a different price (About 30% lower than it was marked).  The new price seemed good to me and so without further "negotiation", I bought it.  Not sure why a "dealer" would price a book and then offer at a different price before any "negotiations" began, but I was glad he did.  Had he not, he would have been out a sale and I would not have the book.

Any thoughts on this dealer "tactic"?

I don't use this tactic at Cons since I have a hard time keeping track of my price and how much wiggle room I have on books so I tend to price books at 10% under what I expect to get on E-Bay and stick to it other then big bulk purchases.  I do know dealers who mark up books and offer an immediate discount since people tend to remember that guy will gave a good discount even if the book is not at his desired or market price.  People love to haggle so dealers factor it into their prices. 

[Hudson]

23 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

 People love to haggle so dealers factor it into their prices. 

I don't!!!

Then again, I also am a FIRM believer that dealers should make a reasonable profit.  When "buyers" try to take all the profit away from dealers, they are killing the very people we need to supply our collections.

I like your 10% under eBay.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Hudson

[1Cool]

3 minutes ago, Hudson said:

I don't!!!

Then again, I also am a FIRM believer that dealers should make a reasonable profit.  When "buyers" try to take all the profit away from dealers, they are killing the very people we need to supply our collections.

I like your 10% under eBay.

I also don't sell at Cons anymore since I find its just easier to sell books online compared to paying hundreds (thousands for some Cons) for a booth and struggling to sell books for 10% under my e-bay prices.

[1Cool]

7 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

They're museum pieces to bring the casual buyer in who might not stop by, but now that he/she is there, out comes the plastic and $300 of books from your boxes go away. I'd love to sell the Hulk 181, but that book I can move all day long. The VF- X-Men 57 that the guy is buying out of my box at my sticker price? That makes me happy.

I know Bob has expressed several times how crazy this practice is but I also think he has such a huge inventory of keys he doesn’t have a problem getting people to stop by his booth.  I see it all the time where buyers skim over a smaller booth when they do not see big keys on the sellers wall.  Eye candy for people to stop does sound like you are opening a museum but people buy a lot of stuff at the gift shop when they go to a museum.

[Hudson]

50 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I also don't sell at Cons anymore since I find its just easier to sell books online compared to paying hundreds (thousands for some Cons) for a booth and struggling to sell books for 10% under my e-bay prices.

If I can buy a book at a convention for the SAME price as eBay, see it in person, and take it home that day, I consider that a WIN!

10% under eBay would be a gift!

[CKinTO]

On 4/13/2018 at 5:12 PM, blazingbob said:

I'm there to sell books,  unfortunately as I've said before I don't know what each person's idea of "unrealistic" is.  Could be I'm priced over OSPG.  Could be I'm way over GPA.  Could be I don't use 90-120 day GPA pricing.  Unless buyers and sellers communicate it is not that easy to come up with a person's expectations.  

I'll use an example of what people might consider unrealistic.

If I put a price of $4250 on a House of Secrets #92 9.0 with offwhite/white pages or better and nice registeration am I unrealistic?

Last sale was $3750.

Before you reply I was asked for this book 5-10 times the FIRST day.

 

If the “fair” price on a book is $3750, then I think a 10-15% markup to “sticker price” at a con is very reasonable. That leaves some wiggle room for negotiation for a sale to a “knowledgeable” buyer, while also leaving some potential additional profit from a buyer who really wants it / willing to pay more. Even more so if it’s a nicer specimen of grade (page quality, nice wrap, etc.)

But being 2x+ “fair”value is in my view, net negative, unless the seller really doesn’t want to sell the book that much unless to an overpaying buyer, and it’s for other reasons as mentioned by others (eg. wall candy to bring people to buy other books)

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, Hudson said:

Bob, I usually agree with you on most things. You have a great reputation on the boards and are well respected.

I can even say that MOST people would likely agree with you, in that someone buying "a stack" should get more of a discount than someone buying a single book.

I, however, do not understand this way of thinking.  If a dealer has priced in say a 20% "wiggle room" factor on his books, then why can't a buyer get that 20% on one book the same as on a stack of say 10?  Now, I am NOT talking about when that single book is a "key".  I am talking about when that single book OR that stack of books is just "run of the mill" books.

Maybe I am missing something here.  I would be happy to hear other opinions on this.

First off, thanks for the kind words, appreciated. I think the discount on the 'stack' mentality comes from my old school collecting experiences. Many years ago, the general rule of thumb for many dealers was the price was firm, except on the stack. You will sometimes see Board sellers state the same. I agree with you, if the wiggle room is there, a discount on just one book is appropriate and appreciated. 

[thehumantorch]

When I see someone asking crazy prices for keys I walk away and don't go back.  Badly overpriced books tell me they're looking for a sucker or they can't grade or they don't want to sell it.   

Two years ago a local dealer picked up a large SA collection and I was interested in his G/G- Fantastic Four 5.  I figured about $800.  His sticker price?  $6500.  I've never looked at his stuff again.  And this wasn't a one off, all his keys were 2 to 6 times market.  And this is the same dealer who had a Hulk 181, with the wrong Marvel Value Stamp.  We told him he had a married centerfold from a Hulk 179 and he said 'oh gosh' and took the book off his wall.  He's still trying to sell that book at his original sticker without disclosing it's issues.  Buyer beware.

[NoMan]

When I’m at a con and walk up to a dealer’s table, I just immediately turn around and walk away. My social anxiety makes putting my collection together kinda rough. I did mumble a word or two to Bob Storms at  Wondercon and also Greg Reece’s guys. And Dale Roberts, too. So I am getting better. I just usually buy from their websites.