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Action Comics #1 Cover OA...still exists?!?
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Started by PhilipB2k17,

233 posts in this topic

PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

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14 minutes ago, hmendryk said:

Which Facebook forum? I certainly hope you posted it as likely to be a fake.

I said it was either mind blowing or a forgery. At  the time, you didn't claim it was fake. But, I definitely allowed for that.

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

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17 minutes ago, hmendryk said:

I am afraid not. I have a directory filled with various images or comics and original art that I picked up off the Internet over the years.

I thought maybe someone sent you the scan to "authenticate" it.

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hmendryk

hmendryk

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The "art" is on an illustration board. Now such boards were used sometimes to put together various stats but there do not appear to be any edges indicating any stats. So again not production art.

Production art for the interior pages of Captain America Comics #1 do exists, or more precisely copies of the production art. Both Joe and Jack had copies of what were called flats. Flats are shots of the original art (no colors) laid out as groups of four just as the would be printed. Jack's copies of the original flats were used in the first reprints of the S&K Captain America comics. Joe's ended up in the Heritage auctions of his collection, but were not correctly identified as copies of the original production art. I managed to pick up the copies from the origin story.

Production art is easy to fake. It is done all the time and sold on eBay. I would not buy any production art unless there is good provenance.

SI_1399_1.jpg

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dem1138

dem1138

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25 minutes ago, hmendryk said:

The "art" is on an illustration board. Now such boards were used sometimes to put together various stats but there do not appear to be any edges indicating any stats. So again not production art.

Production art for the interior pages of Captain America Comics #1 do exists, or more precisely copies of the production art. Both Joe and Jack had copies of what were called flats. Flats are shots of the original art (no colors) laid out as groups of four just as the would be printed. Jack's copies of the original flats were used in the first reprints of the S&K Captain America comics. Joe's ended up in the Heritage auctions of his collection, but were not correctly identified as copies of the original production art. I managed to pick up the copies from the origin story.

Production art is easy to fake. It is done all the time and sold on eBay. I would not buy any production art unless there is good provenance.

SI_1399_1.jpg

Harry - you have a wealth of knowledge to share and personally, S&K Cap is top 5 for me.  So regardless of the Cap #1 being a fake, you passing down any knowledge is greatly appreciated.

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pemart1966

pemart1966

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On 2018-04-23 at 8:51 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

There was a large deal of speculation, only a couple of years ago, about why so many Kirby pages were being pulled from dealer sites and auction houses. Perhaps it was to avoid legal wrangling with the Kirby estate, etc? Moreover, reputation matters to some people. Even if legal entanglements could be sorted out and they'd prevail (eventually), they may not want their business aired in open court. And putting aside the criminal statues, there's the "ownership" issue that has to be legally resolved. Who rightfully owns the cover to Amazing Fantasy 15? Could it be said that after its arrangement to return all of its art to the artists, Marvel was only a custodian of it until it could be returned to Jack Kirby? Except, whoops! It disappeared. Has Marvel ever said to these artists (Sorry. Your art was destroyed at the printers, as you know commonly happens, etc). The fact is, Marvel doesn't know what happened to the art. Jim Shooter didn't know, as he stated on his blog (he even speculated that a flood, or water damage at have destroyed some of it at one point). Irene Vartanoff didn't know either.

A lot of sturm and drang has been bandied about in this hobby (I've read it) about all the "stolen" Marvel art. Some of which has (or has it?) surfaced. Some of it still has not.

People speculate that a lot of stuff found its way into some black hole collections.

All I am saying is that there appears to be no good reason why these covers would be in a landfill somewhere. Your sole piece of evidence is that they have never been offered for sale. Until a few years ago, did anyone believe the AF 15 art was still around? Maybe there were "wild" speculations like mine that it was somewhere, and that person was laughed at or mocked as being silly. "If someone had the OA to Amazing fantasy 15, why in the world has something so valuable never been offered for sale? It's preposterous."

The really detailed inventory of the art was not undertaken until 1974. So, who knows what happened to many of those pages in the 12-13 year interim.

UPDATE: From Glen Gold’s seminal article on the missing Kirby marvel art:

“I called Eastern Color Printing, which handled Marvel's comics, and talked to the man who, for over thirty years - the entire Golden and Silver Ages - saw every issue get printed. He told me that all the art, covers and interiors, went back from the engravers to Marvel in the same envelope. So no, the covers weren't destroyed.”

http://www.twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/19stolen.html

Assuming the above is correct, then it seems my theory that they still exist in someone's black hole collection n somewhere is much more plausible. What I find interesting is that Glen argues in his article, that the existence of the interior OA was used as evidence that the covers were destroyed by older collectors and dealers, not as evidence that they covers still existed after being returned from the printer (as I speculated, apparently, correctly).

I'm not reading that "the covers were destroyed by older collectors and dealers"...and if I did miss it, why in the world would they want to do that?

 

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hippiecop

hippiecop

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On 4/23/2018 at 12:45 PM, dem1138 said:

Apologies #28, my mistake and corrected above for posterity.  I understand that #30 showed up on eBay and sold fairly inexpensively due to the tiny Spider-man.  Speaking of things that showed up on eBay, the complete interiors to the Iron Man story from TOS #39 showed up a few times but hasn't appeared again for a long time.  I wonder where those are now.  I THINK the asking was 100K, which at the time(s) seemed outrageous but now seems cheap.

         The Spidey #30 cover did not sell when it was put on ebay in 2002 (as a "buy it now").                                                                                                                                                                 At the time it was listed there, the asking price was EXTREMELY high.  After it was moved privately, it's been in the same collection since 2003.

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Funnyslover

Funnyslover

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PhilipB2k17, as requested, herewith Irene Vartanoff’s list :

http://www.comicartfans.com/galleryroom.asp?gsub=38988

 

and a few other snippets :

http://www.tcj.com/kirby-and-goliath-the-fight-for-jack-kirbys-marvel-artwork/

http://www.comicsbeat.com/marvel-sold-original-art-in-1973/

https://books.google.fr/books?id=TrZ7Jx2nqIQC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=pete+koch+marvel+art&source=bl&ots=NC8-kzjRvG&sig=Qn4O4eFobqkE8Bvd3OrnZ0OSkPQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjakY7cy9zLAhUE7xQKHXCcBSUQ6AEIHTAB#v=onepage&q=pete%20koch%20marvel%20art&f=false

http://irenevartanoff.com/?p=505

[There are sometimes “comments” beyond the end of the various articles. They often provide additional insights - a prime example being Irene’s blogs.]

https://irenevartanoff.com/more-about-original-comic-book-artwork/

https://books.google.fr/books?id=TrZ7Jx2nqIQC&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=marvel+silver+age+covers+journey+into+mystery+80+89&source=bl&ots=NC8-kzhRDI&sig=gy-GeYDbGEXzY-gPy8sIyKG61_U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ45XJxNzLAhUDTCYKHdf-CWUQ6AEIITAD#v=onepage&q=marvel%20silver%20age%20covers%20journey%20into%20mystery%2080%2089&f=false

http://www.twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/19stolen.html

http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/original-art-stories-jack-kirbys.html

http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.fr/2011/04/marvel-worldwide-inc-et-al-v-kirby-et_17.html

Go to faq 30

http://unitedfanzineorganization.weebly.com/ditkofaq.html#005

Go to bottom of page 7

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=700711&fpart=4

https://books.google.fr/books?id=TrZ7Jx2nqIQC&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=list+art+returned+to+kirby&source=bl&ots=NC8-kAiMBA&sig=xjW6De3BOjn2mo4QNSSV2H2qo-s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi98PnK69zLAhVGzRQKHZ0RD_sQ6AEIMTAH#v=onepage&q=list%20art%20returned%20to%20kirby&f=false

http://unitedfanzineorganization.weebly.com/ditkofaq.html#030

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-09-02/features/0809010104_1_artwork-comic-book-steve-ditko

http://jimshooter.com/2011/03/mystery-of-missing-box-of-marve.html/

http://jimshooter.com/2011/12/surprising-sinnott-and-items-of.html/

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/695/original-art-essay-ditko.jpg

http://s45.photobucket.com/user/chromiumcomics/media/c7648c2251eb552da790bd4cfb59b0a8_zpsvrldsasx.jpg.html

http://www.pipelinecomics.com/the-mystery-of-60s-marvel-jack-kirby-original-artworK

 

 

Edited by Funnyslover
Can anyone help me with this old link It worked in the previous system. http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=700711&fpart=4
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