Ebay seller Tonfulle-84. $357 for a Stan Lee forgery 0

[1950's war comics]

2 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Anybody here on Facebook? Roy Thomas maintains a facebook page. I don't do facebook. Be great if someone here on Facebook can bring this seller's forgeries to Roy's attention and/or direct him here. This seller is churning out Roy Thomas forgeries on many of his Stan Lee forgeries. Roy make take exception to it. Easiest way to get a fast response, IMO.

i'm not on facebook either ,..i hope another member takes up your advice and informs Roy Thomas....

[James J Johnson]

11 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

i'm not on facebook either ,..i hope another member takes up your advice and informs Roy Thomas....

Once Roy Thomas sees all of this seller's Thomas forgeries, not just the ones listed, but the ones he's sold, which even if he makes his feedback profile private to obscure, I have images of (all of them saved), his pens will run dry.

[ADAMANTIUM]

4 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Once Roy Thomas sees all of this seller's Thomas forgeries, not just the ones listed, but the ones he's sold, which even if he makes his feedback profile private to obscure, I have images of (all of them saved), his pens will run dry.

I know where on the train and focussed on ending the eBay seller, but it did make me think....

Will this encourage artists to do cgc and authenticate signatures?

Or will artists just want to stop doing signings altogether? 

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I know where on the train and focussed on ending the eBay seller, but it did make me think....

Will this encourage artists to do cgc and authenticate signatures?

Or will artists just want to stop doing signings altogether? 

It has nothing to do with artists. It's like asking if baseball players will still want to play if some madman goes berserk in some airport somewhere and attacks people with a baseball bat. Forgers like this have nothing to do with artists. Forgers are anti-artists.

[James J Johnson]

Here's another seller with a rotten selection of Stan Lee forgeries  WYZguy828 : 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Last-Fantastic-Four-Story-Written-Signed-by-Stan-Lee-CERTIFIED-Autograph/183651177166?hash=item2ac27692ce:g:qlcAAOSw-4JcJrHI  

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=wyzguy828&hash=item1cc9855f53%3Ag%3AhyAAAOSwUpFb6kdc&item=123640045395&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XStan+Lee.TRS0&_nkw=Stan+Lee&_sacat=0

 

 

[kav]

25 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Here's another seller with a rotten selection of Stan Lee forgeries  WYZguy828 : 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Last-Fantastic-Four-Story-Written-Signed-by-Stan-Lee-CERTIFIED-Autograph/183651177166?hash=item2ac27692ce:g:qlcAAOSw-4JcJrHI  

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=wyzguy828&hash=item1cc9855f53%3Ag%3AhyAAAOSwUpFb6kdc&item=123640045395&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XStan+Lee.TRS0&_nkw=Stan+Lee&_sacat=0

 

 

Oh wow we have a new 

[James J Johnson]

16 minutes ago, kav said:

Oh wow we have a new 

The J.R. Jr. stinks to high heaven as well. When you can't even correctly and convincingly form a signature with only two repeating capital letters, it's time to seriously consider hanging up your pens.

[kav]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

The J.R. Jr. stinks to high heaven as well. When you can't even correctly and convincingly form a signature with only two repeating capital letters, it's time to seriously consider hanging up your pens.

He wont and some goofus will buy it.

[James J Johnson]

Just now, kav said:

He wont and some goofus will buy it.

Kav, I would go into the handwriting analysis of all of these forgeries in great detail. It would help a lot of people who read it, which the spirit of this forum embodies. But sadly, it would also help the forgers, sure as if I wrote an instruction manual. That's something we can't do. Better to just point out and hope that those serious about buying authentic ink will either stick to the CGC signature series books, or at least be able to study the sellers and examples I'm mentioning, study on their own prior to buying. Comparing what I show here against unshakably authentic, witnessed signatures and draw their conclusions based on stark differences.

[kav]

3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Kav, I would go into the handwriting analysis of all of these forgeries in great detail. It would help a lot of people who read it, which the spirit of this forum embodies. But sadly, it would also help the forgers, sure as if I wrote an instruction manual. That's something we can't do. Better to just point out and hope that those serious about buying authentic ink will either stick to the CGC signature series books, or at least be able to study the sellers and examples I'm mentioning, study on their own prior to buying. Comparing what I show here against unshakably authentic, witnessed signatures and draw their conclusions based on stark differences.

just looking at all the fakes I get a feel for them now.  Anyway I would never buy an unwitnessed sig no matter how real it looked.  Hell if I watched stan lee sign it I still wouldnt want it cause no way to prove it-the book is worthless.

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, kav said:

just looking at all the fakes I get a feel for them now.  Anyway I would never buy an unwitnessed sig no matter how real it looked.  Hell if I watched stan lee sign it I still wouldnt want it cause no way to prove it-the book is worthless.

That's the way. It's all visual. A signature is only artwork, it's an extension of the hand. The hand is only part of the signing mechanism, and once you've seen a gazillion of a certain autograph, you begin to adopt a feel for it, allowing you to recognize authenticity the same as you would remember somebody's face. The way the pen is held, the sweep of the forearm, turn at the wrist, even the slight motions of the torso when signing impart an identity to that signature that is unique. Each person's signing mechanism performs a unique dance, or "kata", a ballet of subconsciously choreographed movements of that mechanism which works synergistically to produce that signature, and the path, the angles of attack, the lift points, the separations, it's all consistent! Where the ink narrows because the wrist drew in and slightly changed the angle of the pen on the paper at a certain point in an arc, etc., etc., it's all identifiable!  This is what produces what an autograph person says as "the vibe" of the auto.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

That's the way. It's all visual. A signature is only artwork, it's an extension of the hand. The hand is only part of the signing mechanism, and once you've seen a gazillion of a certain autograph, you begin to adopt a feel for it, allowing you to recognize authenticity the same as you would remember somebody's face. The way the pen is held, the sweep of the forearm, turn at the wrist, even the slight motions of the torso when signing impart an identity to that signature that is unique. Each person's signing mechanism performs a unique dance, or "kata", a ballet of subconsciously choreographed movements of that mechanism which works synergistically to produce that signature, and the path, the angles of attack, the lift points, the separations, it's all consistent! Where the ink narrows because the wrist drew in and slightly changed the angle of the pen on the paper at a certain point in an arc, etc., etc., it's all identifiable!  This is what produces what an autograph person says as "the vibe" of the auto.

If someone did a bogus frazetta even if he copied every line carefully I could tell.  I wouldnt even really be able to explain it.  I used to read a LOT of science fiction books.  It got to the point I could tell if a book had large or small print just by looking at the cover.  My buddies tried to test me at the bookstore, pulling books at random-I never missed once.  Couldnt say how I knew I had just read so many books I could tell.  

[kav]

10 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

That's the way. It's all visual. A signature is only artwork, it's an extension of the hand. The hand is only part of the signing mechanism, and once you've seen a gazillion of a certain autograph, you begin to adopt a feel for it, allowing you to recognize authenticity the same as you would remember somebody's face. The way the pen is held, the sweep of the forearm, turn at the wrist, even the slight motions of the torso when signing impart an identity to that signature that is unique. Each person's signing mechanism performs a unique dance, or "kata", a ballet of subconsciously choreographed movements of that mechanism which works synergistically to produce that signature, and the path, the angles of attack, the lift points, the separations, it's all consistent! Where the ink narrows because the wrist drew in and slightly changed the angle of the pen on the paper at a certain point in an arc, etc., etc., it's all identifiable!  This is what produces what an autograph person says as "the vibe" of the auto.

Anyone who's dealt with women knows they can read your emotions by imperceptible data that they couldnt even explain.  I KNOW SOMETHING IS BOTHERING YOU WHAT IS IT?  This even applies if youre just texting them.  The human brain's pattern detection system was developed over millions of years for survival reasons.

[James J Johnson]

10 minutes ago, kav said:

If someone did a bogus frazetta even if he copied every line carefully I could tell.  I wouldnt even really be able to explain it.  I used to read a LOT of science fiction books.  It got to the point I could tell if a book had large or small print just by looking at the cover.  My buddies tried to test me at the bookstore, pulling books at random-I never missed once.  Couldnt say how I knew I had just read so many books I could tell.  

You're talking about the difference between something copied/forged being drawn deliberately rather than being written/tossed off nonchalantly by the authentic signer, with fluidity rather than shakily or overtly rigid and plodding.

[kav]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

You're talking about the difference between something copied/forged being drawn deliberately rather than being written/tossed off nonchalantly by the authentic signer, with fluidity rather than shakily or overtly rigid and plodding.

yes and everything-line quality, apparent ease of drawing all come into play.  something as simple as calvin and hobbs is impossible to fake.  

[James J Johnson]

9 minutes ago, kav said:

yes and everything-line quality, apparent ease of drawing all come into play.  something as simple as calvin and hobbs is impossible to fake.  

Flow

[kav]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

Flow

if someone copied my drawing I would recognize it immediately no question.

[kav]

or even my sig which is simple.  

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, kav said:

if someone copied my drawing I would recognize it immediately no question.

You're sensitive to flow and the characteristics of your track, everyone's track as different as the grooves are on a different record, because you're innately artistically inclined! When you lay down a track, regardless of if it's a signature, a doodle, artwork, etc. you approach that act that most don't put much emphasis on, with far more cognition than most. A simple line of ink speaks to you like a living entitiy.

[kav]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

You're sensitive to flow and the characteristics of your track, everyone's track as different as the grooves are on a different record, because you're innately artistically inclined! When you lay down a track, regardless of if it's a signature, a doodle, artwork, etc. you approach that act that most don't put much emphasis on, with far more cognition than most. A simple line of ink speaks to you like a living entitiy.

true but even regular joes can recognize a fake sig of their sig.