Thoughts on art dealer Spencer Beck 1 1

[Rick2you2]

39 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

If you read the thread again, you will come to realize that not all was as stated by the OP.

I'm not sure an apology is in order. I think letting it drop would be more sensible.

While we do know the OP's writing isn't too hot, we don't really know if Spence should have known if the OP was not making an offer to buy but just making a general inquiry. Since Spence asserted the claim that it was an offer to buy, he would have the burden of proving he was right. He might be right; he might not. We just don't know (and honestly, I don't want to spend even more time on the question to figure it out, so no more information, please).

By the way, I have dealt with Spence, and I like him. He is apparently overworked, but he does what he can. So I am absolutely not being critical of him, either. 

Just let it die.

So much more interesting to waste time thinking about Spielberg doing a movie version of Blackhawk. He's pretty busy these days, however, so it's not likely to be done Chop-Chop.

[jjonahjameson11]

I asked Spencer about this thread and he agreed with many of the posters to just let this thread die as it is not worth the stress fighting over.  However, he did want to clarify one specific point, which is that at no time did he ever swear at the OP, and in fact, it was the OP who swore at Spencer multiple times in multiple emails.

 

[You’llBelieve78]

16 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

I asked Spencer about this thread and he agreed with many of the posters to just let this thread die as it is not worth the stress fighting over.  However, he did want to clarify one specific point, which is that at no time did he ever swear at the OP, and in fact, it was the OP who swore at Spencer multiple times in multiple emails.

 

I never said he sweared at me and I said I did that, I mentioned it in one of my posts and I only sweared twice in one email, not multiple 

Edited April 19, 2018 by You’llBelieve78

[jjonahjameson11]

2 minutes ago, You’llBelieve78 said:

I never said he sweared at me and I said I did that, I mentioned it in one of my posts and I only sweared twice in one email, not multiple 

Then your statement here from your first email is confusing, whereby you stated that you didn't swear at him...

"So I did respond to him and told him about why I couldn't pay and so on (He did go on saying the e-mails were rude and disrespectful with some swears, True, but I didn't swear at him, I was saying how hard it was to do this and trying to be committed and they way he e-mailed me I thought I was being disrespected because of the stuff I'm going through, and I was still trying to pay),"

[You’llBelieve78]

1 minute ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Then your statement here from your first email is confusing, whereby you stated that you didn't swear at him...

"So I did respond to him and told him about why I couldn't pay and so on (He did go on saying the e-mails were rude and disrespectful with some swears, True, but I didn't swear at him, I was saying how hard it was to do this and trying to be committed and they way he e-mailed me I thought I was being disrespected because of the stuff I'm going through, and I was still trying to pay),"

I did mean to add I it’s true I did swear, but not attacking him, This is the email he was talking about with the swear words. 

[vodou]

While swearing is never particularly impressive, I've always found those sorts that can't handle someone swearing to be equally unimpressive. And a bit childish too.

Swearing, not swearing, who give a sh_t?

[Twanj]

Yep that’s pretty tame, bordering on preteen at this point. The general incoherence is far more offensive. 

edit: I hope the emoji shows I wasn't too serious.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Twanj

[The Voord]

9 hours ago, Twanj said:

Yep that’s pretty tame, bordering on preteen at this point. The general incoherence is far more offensive. 

No symphony from you, I guess . . .

[Andahaion]

I should utilize the symphony card more often.

[You’llBelieve78]

14 hours ago, Twanj said:

Yep that’s pretty tame, bordering on preteen at this point. The general incoherence is far more offensive. 

 True, 

I posted the email of what I said and it was only one email and leave it at that 

Edited April 19, 2018 by You’llBelieve78

[Claudio]

We do tend to get these threads about Spencer fairly often though.  Of the big dealers, he has to have the second worst reputation, right?  I had a misunderstanding with him in 2013.  Honestly, I feel like it was because of his lack of diligence on his part.  However, he came across accusingly and I felt like I had to defend myself.  It wasn't a position I liked to be in.  So, I just stopped doing business with him. 

 

[Mr. Machismo]

I haven’t purchased but I’ve inquired a couple times and he was pretty helpful and quick to respond. No red flags. 

Kind of a silly thread, maybe a mod should lock?

 

[BeholdersEye]

5 hours ago, Bill C said:

C'mon, this has got to be way off. Second worst rep? If you want to say horribly outdated website, that really can't be argued. Slow to respond (at times) due to workload? Sure. But as a person he's extremely cool and as far as business he seems very honorable to me. Never heard of him screwing anyone over, although many other big dealers- some with reps as nice guys- have done some flat out devious, low integrity/borderline criminal nonsense. Done many deals with Spencer and he is very fair, trustworthy, and reasonable IMO. 

I have to agree that Spencer Beck has always been forthright and direct, at times even conversationally friendly via emails and apologetic when inquired items are unavailable.  It might be more "user error" when it comes to negative dealings, possibly in the manner of communication.  He's taken a lot of criticism, many public posts, so to balance that out, I'd add to Bill's testimonial that Spencer is an honorable man.  Yeah, his website isn't the best right now, but it's not the worst either, and it's more to his detriment than anything else, in lacking a good eCommerce shopping cart and having scans for all inventory and removal of sold inventory, but if you know what you're looking for (artist, title and page) you can often find hidden gem deals without images for others to window shop with too. 

[comix4fun]

11 hours ago, Claudio said:

We do tend to get these threads about Spencer fairly often though.  Of the big dealers, he has to have the second worst reputation, right?  I had a misunderstanding with him in 2013.  Honestly, I feel like it was because of his lack of diligence on his part.  However, he came across accusingly and I felt like I had to defend myself.  It wasn't a position I liked to be in.  So, I just stopped doing business with him. 

 

What?!?  That's not my experience nor the experience of almost everyone I know.

First, he's not a dealer. He's a rep. There's a pretty big difference between the two...but that's the most important point. That would be the next one.

Second, I've personally seen dealers try to alter published artwork without disclosing it was re-inked or altered by some modern artist. I've seen another dealer take convention sketches, dress them with logos and call them rejected covers. I've seen another dealer make a deal with a buyer, get a higher offer from someone else and renege on the deal they'd already made with the first buyer/ . I've seen another dealer try to sell artwork he knew to be by one artist as being created by another artist because it would triple the price tag. Another dealer tried to fleece an old time collector, out of touch with values, by trying to by his pages for 10% of real value by misstating true current market value. I've seen shilling, and scheming, and conniving, and lying, and altering, and manipulating by at least a half dozen (if not more) major dealers in this hobby and NONE of them were named Spencer Beck.

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by comix4fun

[Twanj]

I also have not heard of any moral reputation issues with Spencer.

website, is it in stock, timeliness, etc pops up but he's doing his best & as far as I can tell he's a good guy.

[Claudio]

6 hours ago, Bill C said:

C'mon, this has got to be way off. Second worst rep? If you want to say horribly outdated website, that really can't be argued. Slow to respond (at times) due to workload? Sure. But as a person he's extremely cool and as far as business he seems very honorable to me. Never heard of him screwing anyone over, although many other big dealers- some with reps as nice guys- have done some flat out devious, low integrity/borderline criminal nonsense. Done many deals with Spencer and he is very fair, trustworthy, and reasonable IMO. 

I never questioned his honor.  I just pointed out how often people have complained on these boards.  Maybe it was lack of communication.  Maybe website issues.  Maybe inventory issues.  But he definitely appears to get more complaints than anyone else other than coollines.  Am I wrong?  Maybe other people's complains don't mirror your experience but it is hard to deny that many are left dissatisfied after dealing with him. 

[Claudio]

25 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

What?!?  That's not my experience nor the experience of almost everyone I know.

First, he's not a dealer. He's a rep. There's a pretty big difference between the two...but that's the most important point. That would be the next one.

I am just mentioning how often people have complained on these boards.  I had a bad experience but almost everyone I know has not had a bad experience with Spencer.  So I will agree with you on that point.

i will also agree with you that he is not a dealer.  He is a rep.  My apologies.  But now that I think about it, I do not know of a rep who has a worse track record on these boards than Spencer.  Feel free to enlighten me but has anyone other rep been questioned as much as Spencer?  I understand that he has another job and he is trying the best he can.  He may be hiring more help...  but there are still plenty of people who are left unhappy with their experience.  

[Rick2you2]

4 hours ago, Claudio said:

I am just mentioning how often people have complained on these boards.  I had a bad experience but almost everyone I know has not had a bad experience with Spencer.  So I will agree with you on that point.

i will also agree with you that he is not a dealer.  He is a rep.  My apologies.  But now that I think about it, I do not know of a rep who has a worse track record on these boards than Spencer.  Feel free to enlighten me but has anyone other rep been questioned as much as Spencer?  I understand that he has another job and he is trying the best he can.  He may be hiring more help...  but there are still plenty of people who are left unhappy with their experience.  

There is a big difference between someone who is honestly doing the best they can, and a stinker. I would also be hesitant to call out a stinker by name. 

One further comment: he has apparently taken the criticisms to heart and his service seems better than some of the comments I have seen about his past dealings.

Let me add my support for Spencer, again.  

[comix4fun]

6 hours ago, Claudio said:

I am just mentioning how often people have complained on these boards.  I had a bad experience but almost everyone I know has not had a bad experience with Spencer.  So I will agree with you on that point.

i will also agree with you that he is not a dealer.  He is a rep.  My apologies.  But now that I think about it, I do not know of a rep who has a worse track record on these boards than Spencer.  Feel free to enlighten me but has anyone other rep been questioned as much as Spencer?  I understand that he has another job and he is trying the best he can.  He may be hiring more help...  but there are still plenty of people who are left unhappy with their experience.  

While there may be more mentions of Spencer (usually around the time of his annual sales regarding response times, etc) we have to be wary of perceived number of complaints being transformed into something correlative or conclusory as to rate. 

Simply put, up until the last year or two where rep's and rep sites have really taken off with many more new artists have found representation, Spencer was routinely representing anywhere from 3-10 times the number of artists of most of the major reps you could name. It was well over 100 artists at its peak, with an inventory nearing or exceeding six figures in number of pieces. 

So, if you're going to base things on "number of complaints" you have to also look closely at their sales volume, number of artists represented, volume of inventory, etc. If you don't do that then you could be comparing "Bob's Discount Hammers" operating out of Bob's apartment selling 2 hammers a month on eBay to, say,  Home Depot....and wind up with an entirely wrong conclusion. 

And we should REALLY be careful of conflating/equating "worse track record" with "questioned". 

Can you name another rep that has run a 30-50% sale annually, covering the majority of his represented artists, for well over a decade?.....Can you name a rep that has done it once or for more than handful of artists? I ask because, from what I have seen here, that's where most of the questions come from. Other reps might have run a sale on 1 or 2 or a handful of artists, for a handful of pages, which is easy to manage. Spencer's tried to find a way to open the gates to everyone on almost everything. Folks who had not participated before had questions when it took weeks to sift through the orders (mostly because some creators hold onto the physical artwork and have to confirm with Spencer that they did not sell it at some convention or lost it or gave it away and failed to inform Spencer before), but anyone who's participated more than once realized that the trade off of waiting for order confirmation was well worth it for the massive discount on the art they wanted that wasn't available or offered anywhere else. 

So, I posted simply to caution against looking at total number of complaints and not taking into account total volume, or to equate questions or impatience or the need for instant gratification with "worst reputation" or "worst track record". I'd even caution against using those labels or personality conflicts when there's never been a verifiable question as to the man's business ethics, integrity, or even order fulfillment.  Those are labels that should be carefully applied, especially in light of the scope of Spencer's business in relative width and breadth to other representatives in the last quarter century. 

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by comix4fun

[Bird]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

There is a big difference between someone who is honestly doing the best they can, and a stinker.

Yes I agree. But incompetence by design is still incompetence.

 

Claudio (and I am with him on this one) is right. And those who disagree are also right. There can be two truths here.