Is this book restored? 0

[Squad008]

Got a really nice copy of a DC Comics Presents #26.  Comic is in amazing shape, EXCEPT , for a crease or possibly a tear that has been glued on the front cover running horizontally from the right edge into Green Lantern's face.  

It is really hard to see in the scans but can be seen in the photos a little better.  I have never seen a horizontal crease like that before, and don't want to try to pull at the comic to see if it is a tear.  The inside cover doesn't give when you open it but with a crease that long, not sure how that would get there without major color break if it wasn't a tear.  Just thought more experienced board members could give me an opinion. Any help would be appreciated.

Also, estimates on grade if it is a crease/if it is a tear and I had the glue removed?  

Thanks in advance

 

[James J Johnson]

We covered this defect in another thread. That is a paper pleat. A tight fold, like a pleat in material, that is a manufacturing defect in the ream of paper used to produce the comic. It's often erroneously referred to as a "printer's crease" or "printing crease", but it has nothing to do with the printer or the printing process as the defect, a tight fold of the paper (a pleat, not a crease) was a defect in the ream of paper sent to printer to produce the comic before the printing press was ever fed this paper. Things can not only go wrong with the printing press and printing process, but with the manufacturing of the paper itself, as is the case here.

Edited April 26, 2018 by James J Johnson

[Squad008]

Thank you! I did review older posts but didn't see that.

Any idea on how that affects the grade or if it could be pressed out?

[Squad008]

Nevermind, found the post underanufacturing defect, probably don't want to un-crease it since there may not be ink under there.

How does leaving the crease effect the grade?

[Pirate]

shouldn't

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, Pirate said:

shouldn't

+1   If that paper pleat could somehow be unfolded and flattened, there would be a rift in the color left behind, since you would be "unfolding" the pleat that was inked over by the press when printed. Also, since the paper was produced, then cut to a specific size and shape while pleated (folded), undoing that, even by a smidgen (a little bit) by unfolding and pressing that pleat would probably cause a distortion elsewhere since the paper would now be a smidgen (a little bit) larger after unfolding. 

As I've stated in another thread on this subject, my observation is that with a paper pleat ("printer's crease") like this, a 9.2 is the best grade attainable, and that's so only if the rest of the book is 9.6 or 9.8 quality. Like many manufacturing defects that physically cause a defect (perception of damage) while not exactly being "wear" the pleat impacts the grade to a diminished degree in grades 8.5 and below.

So to synopsize, if your book is of 9.6 or 9.8 quality without taking the pleat into consideration, 9.2 is the best you can get out of it if submitted, this based on what I've consistently seen.

Edited April 26, 2018 by James J Johnson

[The Lions Den]

Excellent information and very accurate regarding the attainable grade. I have a couple of books that are higher than 9.2 with this type of defect, but the pleat is much smaller and unobtrusive. A larger one, especially if on the front cover, will usually take the book into the 9.2 range. Personally, I don't mind this type of flaw at all...this is still a very attractive book!  

[Squad008]

5 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Excellent information and very accurate regarding the attainable grade. I have a couple of books that are higher than 9.2 with this type of defect, but the pleat is much smaller and unobtrusive. A larger one, especially if on the front cover, will usually take the book into the 9.2 range. Personally, I don't mind this type of flaw at all...this is still a very attractive book!  

Thanks for all the replies.  It is a really nice copy of the book, the pleat is the only major flaw. Happy it isn't restoration but will pass on getting it graded.  Definitely presents as a very high grade book raw and will leave it that way, a 9.2 slabbed (if it would get that) wouldn't do this book justice.  

Thanks for the info, was unfamiliar with the paper pleats but now know.  Great stuff as always from the board members on here.

[James J Johnson]

22 hours ago, Squad008 said:

Thanks for all the replies.  It is a really nice copy of the book, the pleat is the only major flaw. Happy it isn't restoration but will pass on getting it graded.  Definitely presents as a very high grade book raw and will leave it that way, a 9.2 slabbed (if it would get that) wouldn't do this book justice.  

Thanks for the info, was unfamiliar with the paper pleats but now know.  Great stuff as always from the board members on here.

Very few comics are produced perfectly "clean"; that is, without physical or aesthetic flaws due to their production. Also, certain issues seem to have a propensity for a certain type of flaw incurred by a great many of them during production. We touched on one issue, AS 67, that seems to incur far more than its fair share of "printer's creases" (tight paper pleats). This points to the paper itself being produced with more defect than usual prior to going to the printer. When you encounter a very high grade 67, no pleats, that's an unusually rare find, because the paper itself was shoddily produced. The centering on Strange Tales 101 is another issue of production, as is any Marvel issue that bears the comic code very right on the artwork, therefore the plate. Typically, unless a Strange Tales 101 is assembled/folded left center, that is, the cover wrapping around the spine to the back cover, part of the comics code is usually cut off, like on FF 12 and a number of others, giving the right edge a trimmed look, even if it isn't! In the case of the 67, the physical nature is affected, with that pleat, commonly taken as a crease. With the issue of poor centering, it's aesthetic "defect", the physical integrity not necessarily compromised, but solely the eye appeal.

[Philflound]

If the book is a 9.8 other than the printer crease, he would most likely get a 9.8, not a 

On 5/6/2018 at 2:43 PM, The Lions Den said:

Excellent information and very accurate regarding the attainable grade. I have a couple of books that are higher than 9.2 with this type of defect, but the pleat is much smaller and unobtrusive. A larger one, especially if on the front cover, will usually take the book into the 9.2 range. Personally, I don't mind this type of flaw at all...this is still a very attractive book!  

If the book is a 9.8 without the printer crease, then it would most likely stay a 9.8 with that small creases. This is really nothing compared to many other 9.8 books that have much worse printer creases. Check out many of the Marvel Spotlight CGC high grades out there on the market. Those books have tons of printer creases many times and still achieve 9.6 to 9.8. Right now I don't see any for sale or recent sales to give examples.

[James J Johnson]

20 hours ago, Philflound said:

If the book is a 9.8 other than the printer crease, he would most likely get a 9.8, not a 

If the book is a 9.8 without the printer crease, then it would most likely stay a 9.8 with that small creases. This is really nothing compared to many other 9.8 books that have much worse printer creases. Check out many of the Marvel Spotlight CGC high grades out there on the market. Those books have tons of printer creases many times and still achieve 9.6 to 9.8. Right now I don't see any for sale or recent sales to give examples.

While I have been witness to 9.8s with manufacturing defects, I can't say I remember ever seeing one with a paper pleat, aka a "printer's crease" of any sizable dimension noticeable enough to command attention.

[Squad008]

On 5/9/2018 at 9:34 PM, Philflound said:

If the book is a 9.8 other than the printer crease, he would most likely get a 9.8, not a 

If the book is a 9.8 without the printer crease, then it would most likely stay a 9.8 with that small creases. This is really nothing compared to many other 9.8 books that have much worse printer creases. Check out many of the Marvel Spotlight CGC high grades out there on the market. Those books have tons of printer creases many times and still achieve 9.6 to 9.8. Right now I don't see any for sale or recent sales to give examples.

Bingo!

Finally decided to have it graded since it was too nice of a copy to read and I figured if I ever sell it then it should be graded.  Came back a 9.8 so I guess either the rest of the book was that nice or the printers crease wasn't counted as a defect.  This was a really nice looking book raw and the crease was small, pretty much unnoticeable in the CGC case.

Honestly, I think this book presented much nicer in hand and in the case than other 9.8's with smaller defects (small bends, small spine tick, extra ink from manufacturer). 

Just figured I would post in case people were curious about PC and how they affect grading.  You can see the PC clearly in the original post above.

[The Lions Den]

Congratulations! I'm very pleased I was wrong on this one, but apparently CGC has modified it's stance on books like this with large paper pleats. It's good to know for future reference... 

[James J Johnson]

5 hours ago, Squad008 said:

Bingo!

Finally decided to have it graded since it was too nice of a copy to read and I figured if I ever sell it then it should be graded.  Came back a 9.8 so I guess either the rest of the book was that nice or the printers crease wasn't counted as a defect.  This was a really nice looking book raw and the crease was small, pretty much unnoticeable in the CGC case.

Honestly, I think this book presented much nicer in hand and in the case than other 9.8's with smaller defects (small bends, small spine tick, extra ink from manufacturer). 

Just figured I would post in case people were curious about PC and how they affect grading.  You can see the PC clearly in the original post above.

As Lion already expressed, that s the first 9.8 I've seen with any type of sizable paper production pleat.

Doesn't mean others don't exist. Others that I may have held in my hand and missed it due to it being encased, but that's the first I'm aware of seeing. Congrats!!

[Squad008]

5 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Congratulations! I'm very pleased I was wrong on this one, but apparently CGC has modified it's stance on books like this with large paper pleats. It's good to know for future reference... 

 

3 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

As Lion already expressed, that s the first 9.8 I've seen with any type of sizable paper production pleat.

Doesn't mean others don't exist. Others that I may have held in my hand and missed it due to it being encased, but that's the first I'm aware of seeing. Congrats!!

Thanks, thinking back, after reading the comments to this thread I figured that I would leave it ungraded since it was such a nice book raw that a 9.2 wouldn't do it justice in a slab. I stumbled upon a blog with interviews from someone from CGC and they specifically talked about manufacturing defects and how it affects CGC grading. There was some questions regarding printers creases and the answer was that they didn't lower the grade of the book. After reading that I figured I would get this graded at some point when making a submission to CGC. Not sure if this will always hold true but it was what I read in the interview.

Even if PC's won't lower the grade, not all PC's are created equal and some books have multiples which really can ruin the aesthetic of the book. I personally prefer small PC's to the older distributors strips that leave an ink type residue on the very top of the back cover. I've had and have seen many silver/bronze age books with these types of distributors stamps in high grade and it is pretty noticeable in the slab.

Just wanted to post this for members interested in PC's

[iXr184]

On 5/6/2018 at 1:54 PM, Squad008 said:

Thanks for all the replies.  It is a really nice copy of the book, the pleat is the only major flaw. Happy it isn't restoration but will pass on getting it graded.  Definitely presents as a very high grade book raw and will leave it that way, a 9.2 slabbed (if it would get that) wouldn't do this book justice.  

Thanks for the info, was unfamiliar with the paper pleats but now know.  Great stuff as always from the board members on here.

I asked the same question as you about my ASM 238. I sent it in and came back 9.8. Pleat and all. 

[The Lions Den]

2 hours ago, iXr184 said:

I asked the same question as you about my ASM 238. I sent it in and came back 9.8. Pleat and all. 

It's certainly nice to know that CGC has relaxed their standards regarding paper pleats. I own a couple of books that have pronounced paper pleats...maybe now I'll send them in. Thanks for the information!  

[shadroch]

On 4/27/2019 at 6:00 PM, The Lions Den said:

It's certainly nice to know that CGC has relaxed their standards regarding paper pleats. I own a couple of books that have pronounced paper pleats...maybe now I'll send them in. Thanks for the information!  

Now everyone gets to resubmit. Yay.

[The Lions Den]

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

Now everyone gets to resubmit. Yay.

[James J Johnson]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 6:00 PM, The Lions Den said:

It's certainly nice to know that CGC has relaxed their standards regarding paper pleats. I own a couple of books that have pronounced paper pleats...maybe now I'll send them in. Thanks for the information!  

It does stand to reason to "ignore" that type of defect when it really doesn't have anything to do with wear incurred from handling or by unfavorable/adverse storage. This is a defect in the manufacturing of the materials themselves! And the pleat was already there, in the paper itself, before the production process even began. It may actually behoove collectors who have CGC books graded in the distant past that may have received what they felt was an inexplicably lower expectation on the grade where a paper pleat is present. I've seen many CGC graded books, particularly AS 67s, which seem very prone to this, CGC graded 9.2 that appear near unflawed except for a pleat. Might be beneficial to resub them if a book is real strong, perceived as stronger than the given grade, if a pleat is present. Depending upon value, might be wort the effort, based on the examples shown here.