Thorpe and Porter Stamps??? 2 2

[Gfabiano]

Hello all!

I am going through my collection and noticing a round black 9d or 10d stamp on the covers of some of my Silver Age titles! OUCH! I know that they are stamps used in the UK to adjust for price before Marvel and DC started printing the official variant. My question is, how should this effect values? Has anyone here ever dealt with these when selling? 

Thanks!

Gfabiano

[AJD]

Paging @Get Marwood & I, your go-to guy for pence issues.

[Get Marwood & I]

22 hours ago, AJD said:

Paging @Get Marwood & I, your go-to guy for pence issues.

Oh my, a summons from the King of Australia! That's hard to turn down, if not a criminal offence. Thank you AJD 

Hello @Gfabiano, and welcome to the balds. I say balds deliberately, as very few of us have hair around here. I myself wear a cap to hide natures haircut, but I'm doffing it to you now in respectful acknowledgement of your first, and hopefully not last, post 

I'll try to answer your question as fulsomely as possible, under three headings if I may. Those headings are; Personal Preference, Variant / Historical Focus and Value.

OK, here we go.

Personal Preference

In the 40 years I've been mucking about with comics in Englandville I have only ever met one person who liked and collected Thorpe and Porter (henceforth referred to in this post as 'T&P') price stamps. The vast majority find them ugly and intrusive. Look, even Spidey here is pointing to them whilst battling another one of those flipping robots that Smythe used to keep sending out every five minutes:

 

I used to own that copy and I eventually sold it and replaced it with a stamp free copy. Let's face it, it's not overly attractive is it. That's not to say that all price stamps are ugly intrusive horrors. Look at this rather attractive one here - much less obvious and, in a way mildly complimentary:

 

T&P's stamp was always big, black and bolshie and, accordingly, found favour with few. So it is in my experience a negative when it comes to personal preference - 99 out of 100 people in a room wouldn't want a copy with it on. But there may be one or two who don't mind them, or maybe even like them. But they're in the minority, in my experience.

Variant / Historical Focus

But let's not dismiss them too quickly. There are a handful of misguided cretins serious comic historians who find value in our generally unloved ink blots. Take the L Miller variants that I bore everyone into a comicoma entertain my fellow board members with in one of my many UK focused variant threads. For Marvel comics of a certain price, during a certain time period, of a certain title (or three - look up the thread if you're interested) a cover stamp like this rather attractive 6d one can mean that a variant indicia exists inside:

 

Also, the majority of collectors with a passing interest in UK distribution history assume that T&P were the only distributors in the UK. They were not, as cover stamps like these betray:

 

Miller was at it too. Even with Archie! (thread coming soon)

So we can learn to love the beastly cover stamps as, on occasion, they tell us things we may not have known / realised.

Value

So, to the third heading, the one which actually responds to your question. Do the stamps affect value?

In my experience, yes and thrice yes. Negatively. As I said earlier, put 100 collectors in a room and show them two structurally identical ASM #22's, one clean and free as the day it was born, the other with a dirty big T&P stamp on it, applied after the comic was born and had travelled a bit. In my view, the vast majority would want the unstamped copy. You don't actually need to be a comic expert to work this out. The stamped book has been defaced as truly as if someone had written 'Barry's Book - leave off' in pen on the cover. Most collectors will go 'yuck!'. And pass on it. There may be one or two guys and gals who will go "ooh, how lovely. That really adds to the history and is part of the end to end process. I must collect them and, indeed, pay a premium for them". That person is as rare as a visitor to my L Miller Variant thread.

I owned many copies of ASM with T&P stamps on them back in the glory years. I sold them (me, yes me - Mr UK Pence Man) as I wanted 'pure' untouched cents copies to sit next to my pence copies. They all sold for less than copies without stamps would. Again, this makes sense. eBay can offer multiple copies of the same book on any given day. Why buy stamped when you can buy unstamped?

So it's very likely that your books will realise less money - however you sell them - than they would have had they not been stamped. Sorry.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Please do come back and tell us what you think, and maybe post a picture or two. People are always saying how important it is for new members to be welcomed, but the last 4 I helped did not return, even to say 'thanks'. So do buck that trend please Gfabiano won't you. Otherwise I will cry tears of pure sadness. And you don't want to make a grown man cry do you?

 

 

[AJD]

@Get Marwood & I delivers.  

[Gfabiano]

Well, first of all thank you @AJD and @Get Marwood & I!! How could a new member NOT feel welcome with an answer like that? So thank you again it's clear that you know your stamps better than ALL of Google (I usure you of that). Its interesting how the comic market judges things like this, where I originally assumed these stamps made these comics worthless; prior to this post I spoke with many of my comic shop owner friends and they stated that the T&P stamps would create a historic significance to collectors. I was not convinced. Thats how I landed here and I am happy to see a different perspective. 

To the point, I have been selling these titles as "low grade readers" regardless of condition because I cannot in good conscience post the words " low grade PENNY DREADFULLS" (ick). Do you suggest I continue to market them as "low grade" soley because of the stamp?

Thanks again. (Pictures to be posted later when my fiance stops glaring at me)

 

 

[AJD]

I'd advertise them at the grade they are, but point out the stamps in your description. So, something like " book is in fine condition, but has a UK price stamp". Let the buyer decide how much they deduct for that.

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Gfabiano said:

Well, first of all thank you @AJD and @Get Marwood & I!! How could a new member NOT feel welcome with an answer like that? So thank you again it's clear that you know your stamps better than ALL of Google (I usure you of that). Its interesting how the comic market judges things like this, where I originally assumed these stamps made these comics worthless; prior to this post I spoke with many of my comic shop owner friends and they stated that the T&P stamps would create a historic significance to collectors. I was not convinced. Thats how I landed here and I am happy to see a different perspective. 

To the point, I have been selling these titles as "low grade readers" regardless of condition because I cannot in good conscience post the words " low grade PENNY DREADFULLS" (ick). Do you suggest I continue to market them as "low grade" soley because of the stamp?

Thanks again. (Pictures to be posted later when my fiance stops glaring at me)

 

 

Ha! You came back. I like you Gfab. Gee, you are indeed fab. 

In my view, the stamp is just that - a stamp. The structural grade of the comic is just that - it's structural grade. So an 8.5 with a stamp is still an 8.5. To my knowledge, CGC do not treat the stamp as a negative and reduce the grade as it is part of the distribution process (well, UK at least). Others more familiar with the CGC grading process (not my area of expertise) may be able to clarify.

Personally, I would list your books in the structural grade that they are, and note that they have cover stamps (even though the buyer should be able to spot them in any pictures you post). The buyer will then know exactly what they are getting 

Let's call on the two Bobs for an opinion - Bobs, do you know how CGC would treat these price stamps?

@Bomber-Bob @blazingbob

 

[Get Marwood & I]

13 minutes ago, Gfabiano said:

I cannot in good conscience post the words " low grade PENNY DREADFULLS"

Oh, by the way, never say these words again. Ever. 

14 minutes ago, Gfabiano said:

Thanks again. (Pictures to be posted later when my fiance stops glaring at me)

She's glaring at you for using the PD words Gfab. Clearly a woman of taste  (never say them again. I mean it. I can release hounds and everything)

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Personally, I would list your books in the structural grade that they are, and note that they have cover stamps (even though the buyer should be able to spot them in any pictures you post). The buyer will then know exactly what they are getting 

 

12 minutes ago, AJD said:

I'd advertise them at the grade they are, but point out the stamps in your description. So, something like " book is in fine condition, but has a UK price stamp". Let the buyer decide how much they deduct for that.

Look, the King of Australia agrees with me, so it must be true (subject to the Two Bob Clarification of course) 

[blazingbob]

Being that I bought a UK collection last year I do have books in it with the UK price stamps.  They are noted in the descriptions.  To me they are like a date stamp, not the same as a 15 cent sticker being placed on the book.  

If the stamp is neat I'm not really downgrading for the book,  if it is a messy stamp then I generally do.

Do stamps affect value?  Not to me,  they will just not appeal to a certain buying customer base.  It could be the White Mountain copy with a pen date on the front cover and some of my customers won't buy it.    

I do note date stamps or any kind of writing on the books I sell,  my return policy does give the customer the right to return a book if I don't disclose writing.  

[blazingbob]

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Do stamps affect value?  Not to me,  they will just not appeal to a certain buying customer base

Cheers Bob. If the certain buying customer base is 'most of them', it will affect value won't it, especially if you list for example with a low starting bid. If you place it as a BIN at comparable market rates it may sit there forever?

[blazingbob]

[blazingbob]

I don't auction books.  I've sold these books with the stamps.  Sometimes the issue is not one that sells quickly.

[Get Marwood & I]

7 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I don't auction books.  I've sold these books with the stamps.  Sometimes the issue is not one that sells quickly.

Ta.

Wonder what Bob 2 will think...

And Roy!

Roy, got an opinion for us?

@VintageComics

[VintageComics]

I dont't have as much experience but my opinion would be the same as Bob Storms. He pretty much covered it.

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I dont't have as much experience but my opinion would be the same as Bob Storms. He pretty much covered it.

Thanks Roy for that uncharacteristically brief opinion! 

@Redshade - what say thou? 

[Sweet Lou 14]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Cheers Bob. If the certain buying customer base is 'most of them', it will affect value won't it, especially if you list for example with a low starting bid. If you place it as a BIN at comparable market rates it may sit there forever?

I'm one of those who avoid date stamps, but I've seen no evidence at all that date stamps make a book less valuable in the market.  There are lots of collectors who absolutely love date stamps, and it would appear that the demand they generate more than makes up for the lack of demand coming from people like me.

[Bomber-Bob]

I also agree with Bob #1. On a personal level, I love date stamps, but these price stamps seem bigger than most date stamps. Of course it depends on the placement. I believe I have one that is on the Back cover and it's a 9.2. I suspect CGC would only acknowledge when it's in the uber grade range. 

[Get Marwood & I]

6 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I'm one of those who avoid date stamps, but I've seen no evidence at all that date stamps make a book less valuable in the market.  There are lots of collectors who absolutely love date stamps, and it would appear that the demand they generate more than makes up for the lack of demand coming from people like me.

Date stamps I agree, they're usually inobtrusuve. T&P price stamps however,  not so much.

I can't find anything from CGC as to how they would treat them. Chuck at milehigh has a bit on it. 

Maybe I'll try 'ask CGC' and give them another opportunity to ignore me