Pressing companies overwhelmed, therefore not as good as previously? 0

[Supraman16]

I’ve noticed a couple of people posting about the underwhelming results of CCS lately.  I’ve used other major Pressing companies as well and have noticed also some poor results.  I’ve gotten the grader notes before sending them the comics and all were with defects that should have improved with a good press, however, most of the time those defects were not corrected with a press and thus resulted in the same grade or worse, a lower grade.  At times it wasn’t even worth the time, effort, or money to get the comic pressed….and like I stated above, I check the grader notes and defects of the comics and I knew they were correctable with a good press.

So here’s my theory…as pressing comics becoming more popular and utilized, I suspect most of the major pressing companies are starting to get inundated with comics to press so they can’t dedicate as much time as they used to, to effectively press a comic.  I suspect they do mostly a “quick press” rather than a full press with more dedicated time to remove creases and dry cleaning that would result in a more complete pressing.  I think it’s a matter of economics…the more comics they can press in a shorter amount of time, the more money they can make.  I suspect most of us request that the comics they send to the pressing companies be sent directly to CGC for grading so most of the time we don’t get the comics back from the pressors to check the results of the press, so even less likely the pressors need to worry about the customer checking their work and scrutinizing it. 

The above is only a theory of course.  What do you guys think?  I’m hoping that maybe some of the pressing companies, that I know are active board members here, will chime in and give their input also. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Couple of observations. Disclosure: I have pressed for many clients over the last 8 years, and pressed somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000-8,000 comics of all eras.

1. Pressing isn't magic. While I am of the opinion that EVERY book can be improved from pressing, not all improvement will result in a grade increase. And, due to the subjective nature of grading, yes, some books go DOWN in grade. I underestimated the tanning on a major Bronze key, graded when tanning wasn't treated as severely, and, despite the book looking markedly better than before, it went from a 9.0 to an 8.0. Should have left it in the 9.0 slab. That's one of two books that I have had go down in grade (the other being a Marvel Premiere #1 that went from 8.5 to 8.0. Sigh.)

2. Pressing is, like all art forms, not something that can be taught. You either have the temperament and personality to be a good presser, or you do not. Owning a press doesn't make someone a presser, any more than owning a drafting table makes one a penciler or owning an easel makes one a painter.

3. Notes are notoriously inadequate. What may seem like "pressable defects" in notes may not...and frequently ARE not...actually so.

4. Proper pressing...that is, removing all pressable defects without introducing NEW defects to the book...is worth far, far, farrrrr more than the pittance that the market is paying right now. $8 for a "quick press"? $12 for a "standard" press? You're getting what you pay for. If your book has more than just the most subtle of defects, those charging you this pittance aren't doing what needs to be done to the book: and I don't blame them. The time, effort, talent, patience, and ability it takes to work real magic is worth much more than $12/book, but very few people want to pay that. I don't press for others any more because of that, except on a very limited basis, and only because I enjoy it. Once I stop enjoying it, I don't do it.

5. Every book...every single copy...is unique. While there are obviously techniques one can develop, the fact is, every book has to be approached on its own terms, to get the best possible results. 

6. A hint for wannabe pressers: the actual press should be the "top coat", the "sealer", the "finishing touch" on a properly processed book. Overheating, overwatering, oversquishing...these do not make for a proper press job. Gentleness, patience, perseverance, gentleness, and above all, gentleness is the key. If an educated observer can tell the book has been pressed, you're not doing it correctly. 

[Bomber-Bob]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Couple of observations. Disclosure: I have pressed for many clients over the last 8 years, and pressed somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000-8,000 comics of all eras.

1. Pressing isn't magic. While I am of the opinion that EVERY book can be improved from pressing, not all improvement will result in a grade increase. And, due to the subjective nature of grading, yes, some books go DOWN in grade. I underestimated the tanning on a major Bronze key, graded when tanning wasn't treated as severely, and, despite the book looking markedly better than before, it went from a 9.0 to an 8.0. Should have left it in the 9.0 slab. That's one of two books that I have had go down in grade (the other being a Marvel Premiere #1 that went from 8.5 to 8.0. Sigh.)

2. Pressing is, like all art forms, not something that can be taught. You either have the temperament and personality to be a good presser, or you do not. Owning a press doesn't make someone a presser, any more than owning a drafting table makes one a penciler or owning an easel makes one a painter.

3. Notes are notoriously inadequate. What may seem like "pressable defects" in notes may not...and frequently ARE not...actually so.

4. Proper pressing...that is, removing all pressable defects without introducing NEW defects to the book...is worth far, far, farrrrr more than the pittance that the market is paying right now. $8 for a "quick press"? $12 for a "standard" press? You're getting what you pay for. If your book has more than just the most subtle of defects, those charging you this pittance aren't doing what needs to be done to the book: and I don't blame them. The time, effort, talent, patience, and ability it takes to work real magic is worth much more than $12/book, but very few people want to pay that. I don't press for others any more because of that, except on a very limited basis, and only because I enjoy it. Once I stop enjoying it, I don't do it.

5. Every book...every single copy...is unique. While there are obviously techniques one can develop, the fact is, every book has to be approached on its own terms, to get the best possible results. 

6. A hint for wannabe pressers: the actual press should be the "top coat", the "sealer", the "finishing touch" on a properly processed book. Overheating, overwatering, oversquishing...these do not make for a proper press job. Gentleness, patience, perseverance, gentleness, and above all, gentleness is the key. If an educated observer can tell the book has been pressed, you're not doing it correctly. 

Hey RMA, this was a spot on post ! I agree with everything you said. I would suspect the OP's observation that things are getting worse because of the workload may be accurate in some cases. People seem to want to send in everything to be pressed nowadays when often it is either useless or not necessary. While there are plenty of pressers, there may not be enough proficient pressers. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Hey RMA, this was a spot on post ! I agree with everything you said. I would suspect the OP's observation that things are getting worse because of the workload may be accurate in some cases. People seem to want to send in everything to be pressed nowadays when often it is either useless or not necessary. While there are plenty of pressers, there may not be enough proficient pressers. 

I doubt there's more than 5-10 people doing pressing today that are proficient pressers. Lotsa chop shops, though.

[Kevin76]

I see this saying all the time on FB groups  "Man,  I can't wait to get this book pressed, signed and graded"  

Now for the other DIY pressers who think buying a cheap $100 T Shirt press while they stuff backing boards inside the book try to give other people pressing advice who've only been pressing a month drive me up the wall.  

 

[Supraman16]

4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Couple of observations. Disclosure: I have pressed for many clients over the last 8 years, and pressed somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000-8,000 comics of all eras.

1. Pressing isn't magic. While I am of the opinion that EVERY book can be improved from pressing, not all improvement will result in a grade increase. And, due to the subjective nature of grading, yes, some books go DOWN in grade. I underestimated the tanning on a major Bronze key, graded when tanning wasn't treated as severely, and, despite the book looking markedly better than before, it went from a 9.0 to an 8.0. Should have left it in the 9.0 slab. That's one of two books that I have had go down in grade (the other being a Marvel Premiere #1 that went from 8.5 to 8.0. Sigh.)

2. Pressing is, like all art forms, not something that can be taught. You either have the temperament and personality to be a good presser, or you do not. Owning a press doesn't make someone a presser, any more than owning a drafting table makes one a penciler or owning an easel makes one a painter.

3. Notes are notoriously inadequate. What may seem like "pressable defects" in notes may not...and frequently ARE not...actually so.

4. Proper pressing...that is, removing all pressable defects without introducing NEW defects to the book...is worth far, far, farrrrr more than the pittance that the market is paying right now. $8 for a "quick press"? $12 for a "standard" press? You're getting what you pay for. If your book has more than just the most subtle of defects, those charging you this pittance aren't doing what needs to be done to the book: and I don't blame them. The time, effort, talent, patience, and ability it takes to work real magic is worth much more than $12/book, but very few people want to pay that. I don't press for others any more because of that, except on a very limited basis, and only because I enjoy it. Once I stop enjoying it, I don't do it.

5. Every book...every single copy...is unique. While there are obviously techniques one can develop, the fact is, every book has to be approached on its own terms, to get the best possible results. 

6. A hint for wannabe pressers: the actual press should be the "top coat", the "sealer", the "finishing touch" on a properly processed book. Overheating, overwatering, oversquishing...these do not make for a proper press job. Gentleness, patience, perseverance, gentleness, and above all, gentleness is the key. If an educated observer can tell the book has been pressed, you're not doing it correctly. 

RMA: I definitely agree with all that you said.  Especially about the fact that $12 is extremely cheap considering the amount of work that a good press job takes.  But most pressing companies advertise a "full service" when you choose their pressing services, but I guess what's me off is that they seem to be doing a "Quick Press" even though you pay for the higher end service.  There is no way to really check to see if these companies are doing everything that you paid for, you just have to take their word for it that they did everything possible to press and dry clean your comic for the best results.  Especially nowadays where these companies are being pushed to the limit in terms on the number of submissions they have to get done in a timely manner and get submitted to CGC. 

[joeypost]

In some cases it can be they are overwhelmed, but it could also be how they handle and process their workload. That's why some companies do not offer a fast track service so the books are done correctly, and the customer does not dictate the pace of the work, as you would be surprised how many collectors would take sooner rather than better (and then complain). And...as many have learned, paying more doesn't always mean you will get a better job done. 

[joeypost]

6 hours ago, Supraman16 said:

I’ve noticed a couple of people posting about the underwhelming results of CCS lately.  I’ve used other major Pressing companies as well and have noticed also some poor results.  I’ve gotten the grader notes before sending them the comics and all were with defects that should have improved with a good press, however, most of the time those defects were not corrected with a press and thus resulted in the same grade or worse, a lower grade.  At times it wasn’t even worth the time, effort, or money to get the comic pressed….and like I stated above, I check the grader notes and defects of the comics and I knew they were correctable with a good press.

So here’s my theory…as pressing comics becoming more popular and utilized, I suspect most of the major pressing companies are starting to get inundated with comics to press so they can’t dedicate as much time as they used to, to effectively press a comic.  I suspect they do mostly a “quick press” rather than a full press with more dedicated time to remove creases and dry cleaning that would result in a more complete pressing.  I think it’s a matter of economics…the more comics they can press in a shorter amount of time, the more money they can make.  I suspect most of us request that the comics they send to the pressing companies be sent directly to CGC for grading so most of the time we don’t get the comics back from the pressors to check the results of the press, so even less likely the pressors need to worry about the customer checking their work and scrutinizing it. 

The above is only a theory of course.  What do you guys think?  I’m hoping that maybe some of the pressing companies, that I know are active board members here, will chime in and give their input also. 

In some cases a "quick" press has all the same aspects of a full press, if a book requires no dry cleaning it gets the same treatment as a full press.

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 hours ago, Supraman16 said:

RMA: I definitely agree with all that you said.  Especially about the fact that $12 is extremely cheap considering the amount of work that a good press job takes.  But most pressing companies advertise a "full service" when you choose their pressing services, but I guess what's me off is that they seem to be doing a "Quick Press" even though you pay for the higher end service.  There is no way to really check to see if these companies are doing everything that you paid for, you just have to take their word for it that they did everything possible to press and dry clean your comic for the best results.  Especially nowadays where these companies are being pushed to the limit in terms on the number of submissions they have to get done in a timely manner and get submitted to CGC. 

As in all things, you get what you pay for (and no, that doesn't mean in a positive way.) You pay cheap, you're virtually guaranteed to get cheap. I'm not aware of any top tier pressers who have a tiered pricing structure other than one, but whether it's $8, $12, or anything in that ballpark, you're not going to get anything but a single pass through the process, and very little in the way of analysis. What comes out, in that case, is what comes out, and what remains doesn't get addressed at that price point, because it can't be. While I am of the opinion that every book stands to benefit from a proper press, I am also of the opinion that not every book needs one, as mentioned above.

I'm essentially telling you that there really isn't *much* distinction between your "quick press" and "full service." Since every book is unique, a "one size fits all" pressing policy doesn't work. If I have a badly wrinkled, dirty book that could respond well to pressing and dry cleaning, that's different from a book with a couple of NCB spine tics that can be worked out. The latter will probably be fine with a "Quick Press." The former....not so much. You take your car in for repairs, they don't charge you the same for an oil change as they do an overhaul. 

The answer is for the consumer to start taking a serious look at who is pressing, how they press (yes, you have the right to ask...those who balk? Don't do business with them. It's YOUR property, and all the "proprietary secrets" are for people who don't have the temperament to do it properly. It's not difficult, technically...it's very difficult if you don't have the right temperament, regardless of your "process") and why they charge what they charge. Do they get out every pressable defect? How do they examine a book? Are they willing to give you an analysis of the book, before AND after? What temperatures do they subject your book to? What type of moisture do they subject your book to? Do they practice disassembly? Do they have a damage policy? Do they TELL YOU when they've damaged your property? 

These are all questions all pressers should be asked, and should be made to answer. Until and if that happens, crummy pressers will continue to smush books, and there will be no change.

Pressing is an artform, and should be practiced by artists...not hacks.

 

[Jaydee]

Ok I have seen Joeys work and i pay about 30 a book with mike from hero restoration for a full service.  I did however send a batch of 15 moderns to ccs ranging from a book from january 2018 to a 1977 book for their fast job.  I am awaiting the results.  I chose books with varing times and ages between 1977 and 2018 some 80s with no real defects and some with defects some with prestine covers others with some markings.  I am not new just new to actually getting them pressed by ccs.  I will judge only on my observations, my notes prior, their grading notes and my expectations.  Ill let you know.  They charged me for grading the 15 today.  So i assume 3 or 4 weeks. 

However if a book needs some tlc (key, serious cleaning, silver age) id use one of pros on here.  Their results speak for themselves

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, Jaydee said:

Ok I have seen Joeys work and i pay about 30 a book with mike from hero restoration for a full service.  I did however send a batch of 15 moderns to ccs ranging from a book from january 2018 to a 1977 book for their fast job.  I am awaiting the results.  I chose books with varing times and ages between 1977 and 2018 some 80s with no real defects and some with defects some with prestine covers others with some markings.  I am not new just new to actually getting them pressed by ccs.  I will judge only on my observations, my notes prior, their grading notes and my expectations.  Ill let you know.  They charged me for grading the 15 today.  So i assume 3 or 4 weeks. 

However if a book needs some tlc (key, serious cleaning, silver age) id use one of pros on here.  Their results speak for themselves

Why would you get a book pressed that has no defects and/or has a pristine cover ? Do you press every book you submit ? 

[Jaydee]

7 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Why would you get a book pressed that has no defects and/or has a pristine cover ? Do you press every book you submit ? 

Actually not at all this is my first 3 times ever pressing.  Silver age Keys to send in or those you think Mighty Grade high I will always Press Silver Keys 

CCS Quick press required 15 books and I can only tell so much on the new Books if a Cleaning of thumbprints or may help. 

For Example

I sent in 2 of the same era X-men 266 and SS Vol344 Both 1990 both have been in my collection since those days.   X-men 266 is a beautiful book but, SSv3 44 needed a press maybe a little clean

I have books from 5-6 years ago that a press may or may not improve to a 9.4-9.6 (Infinity Djurdevich Variant, Nw Avengers 8

Thanos 13-15 (I mean Really?)  Why not,  it can only help me to a 9.8 but a 9.4 is possible but the differential in value is more than the $8.  

No one here can actually say this is a 9.4 and not a 9.8 and a 9.8 is a 9.4 all the time..  

Sent in the Beta Ray Bill trio 337,338,339 now those covers are ALL WHITE (337 and 338) and are 35 years old so a clean can only help.

I sent in  f-vf- Bronzers that can greatly use some TLC but aren't worth the $30 a normal C&P would need but $8 to possible get 6.0-6.5 to 7.0-7.5. or an 8.0 to a 9.0-9.2

Daredevil 131, , Xmen 141, Xmen 96, She-Hulk 1.  

Some I keep for myself some I sell  what I sell pays for the ones I keep or an upgrade.  

  

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, Jaydee said:

Actually not at all this is my first 3 times ever pressing.  Silver age Keys to send in or those you think Mighty Grade high I will always Press Silver Keys 

CCS Quick press required 15 books and I can only tell so much on the new Books if a Cleaning of thumbprints or may help. 

For Example

I sent in 2 of the same era X-men 266 and SS Vol344 Both 1990 both have been in my collection since those days.   X-men 266 is a beautiful book but, SSv3 44 needed a press maybe a little clean

I have books from 5-6 years ago that a press may or may not improve to a 9.4-9.6 (Infinity Djurdevich Variant, Nw Avengers 8

Thanos 13-15 (I mean Really?)  Why not,  it can only help me to a 9.8 but a 9.4 is possible but the differential in value is more than the $8.  

No one here can actually say this is a 9.4 and not a 9.8 and a 9.8 is a 9.4 all the time..  

Sent in the Beta Ray Bill trio 337,338,339 now those covers are ALL WHITE (337 and 338) and are 35 years old so a clean can only help.

I sent in  f-vf- Bronzers that can greatly use some TLC but aren't worth the $30 a normal C&P would need but $8 to possible get 6.0-6.5 to 7.0-7.5. or an 8.0 to a 9.0-9.2

Daredevil 131, , Xmen 141, Xmen 96, She-Hulk 1.  

Some I keep for myself some I sell  what I sell pays for the ones I keep or an upgrade.  

  

I think, at least for the Moderns like the Thanos 13 - 15, you are much better off submitting the 9.8 candidates using a 9.8 prescreen. If the book does not pass, you only get charged a nominal fee. The error in your logic above is you are assuming the press will get you the 9.8. If it does not, you have really wasted a lot of time and money. Unless you are really good at knowing when a press can help, and you have a presser that will also take the time to press the book properly, your 'press-why not' approach will not be fruitful long term.

[Jaydee]

2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I think, at least for the Moderns like the Thanos 13 - 15, you are much better off submitting the 9.8 candidates using a 9.8 prescreen. If the book does not pass, you only get charged a nominal fee. The error in your logic above is you are assuming the press will get you the 9.8. If it does not, you have really wasted a lot of time and money. Unless you are really good at knowing when a press can help, and you have a presser that will also take the time to press the book properly, your 'press-why not' approach will not be fruitful long term.

Ive never had 25 books to do the pre screen at cgc but even a 9.6 warrants the additional 15.  But If I did do a pre screen on 25 Books and they needed work I wouldnt have CGC do it.  I may pre screen on site two mega keys at denver , des moines or chicago

[Kevin76]

3 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I think, at least for the Moderns like the Thanos 13 - 15, you are much better off submitting the 9.8 candidates using a 9.8 prescreen. If the book does not pass, you only get charged a nominal fee. The error in your logic above is you are assuming the press will get you the 9.8. If it does not, you have really wasted a lot of time and money. Unless you are really good at knowing when a press can help, and you have a presser that will also take the time to press the book properly, your 'press-why not' approach will not be fruitful long term.

Can't forget the "Marvel Digital Edition" sticker inside the back of every modern book now, Pressing them without a buffer will cause an outline on the back cover and ruins any chance at a 9.8+  

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 5/1/2018 at 6:03 AM, Jaydee said:

No one here can actually say this is a 9.4 and not a 9.8 and a 9.8 is a 9.4 all the time..  

I wouldn't go that far, but the truth is, no one anywhere...including the graders...can say that. 

[Bomber-Bob]

On 5/1/2018 at 1:16 PM, Jaydee said:

Ive never had 25 books to do the pre screen at cgc but even a 9.6 warrants the additional 15.  But If I did do a pre screen on 25 Books and they needed work I wouldnt have CGC do it.  I may pre screen on site two mega keys at denver , des moines or chicago

I don't think they prescreen onsite. You can give it to them to take back to Sarasota though. Maybe you can partner up with a friend to make the 25 books ?

[JollyComics]

On 4/30/2018 at 11:47 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

Why would you get a book pressed that has no defects and/or has a pristine cover ? Do you press every book you submit ? 

They gamble. That is how I see.

[The Lions Den]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 1:18 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Couple of observations. Disclosure: I have pressed for many clients over the last 8 years, and pressed somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000-8,000 comics of all eras.

1. Pressing isn't magic. While I am of the opinion that EVERY book can be improved from pressing, not all improvement will result in a grade increase. And, due to the subjective nature of grading, yes, some books go DOWN in grade. I underestimated the tanning on a major Bronze key, graded when tanning wasn't treated as severely, and, despite the book looking markedly better than before, it went from a 9.0 to an 8.0. Should have left it in the 9.0 slab. That's one of two books that I have had go down in grade (the other being a Marvel Premiere #1 that went from 8.5 to 8.0. Sigh.)

2. Pressing is, like all art forms, not something that can be taught. You either have the temperament and personality to be a good presser, or you do not. Owning a press doesn't make someone a presser, any more than owning a drafting table makes one a penciler or owning an easel makes one a painter.

3. Notes are notoriously inadequate. What may seem like "pressable defects" in notes may not...and frequently ARE not...actually so.

4. Proper pressing...that is, removing all pressable defects without introducing NEW defects to the book...is worth far, far, farrrrr more than the pittance that the market is paying right now. $8 for a "quick press"? $12 for a "standard" press? You're getting what you pay for. If your book has more than just the most subtle of defects, those charging you this pittance aren't doing what needs to be done to the book: and I don't blame them. The time, effort, talent, patience, and ability it takes to work real magic is worth much more than $12/book, but very few people want to pay that. I don't press for others any more because of that, except on a very limited basis, and only because I enjoy it. Once I stop enjoying it, I don't do it.

5. Every book...every single copy...is unique. While there are obviously techniques one can develop, the fact is, every book has to be approached on its own terms, to get the best possible results. 

6. A hint for wannabe pressers: the actual press should be the "top coat", the "sealer", the "finishing touch" on a properly processed book. Overheating, overwatering, oversquishing...these do not make for a proper press job. Gentleness, patience, perseverance, gentleness, and above all, gentleness is the key. If an educated observer can tell the book has been pressed, you're not doing it correctly. 

Excellent answer. Anyone interested in getting a book pressed should read this...

[The Lions Den]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 9:07 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

As in all things, you get what you pay for (and no, that doesn't mean in a positive way.) You pay cheap, you're virtually guaranteed to get cheap. I'm not aware of any top tier pressers who have a tiered pricing structure other than one, but whether it's $8, $12, or anything in that ballpark, you're not going to get anything but a single pass through the process, and very little in the way of analysis. What comes out, in that case, is what comes out, and what remains doesn't get addressed at that price point, because it can't be. While I am of the opinion that every book stands to benefit from a proper press, I am also of the opinion that not every book needs one, as mentioned above.

I'm essentially telling you that there really isn't *much* distinction between your "quick press" and "full service." Since every book is unique, a "one size fits all" pressing policy doesn't work. If I have a badly wrinkled, dirty book that could respond well to pressing and dry cleaning, that's different from a book with a couple of NCB spine tics that can be worked out. The latter will probably be fine with a "Quick Press." The former....not so much. You take your car in for repairs, they don't charge you the same for an oil change as they do an overhaul. 

The answer is for the consumer to start taking a serious look at who is pressing, how they press (yes, you have the right to ask...those who balk? Don't do business with them. It's YOUR property, and all the "proprietary secrets" are for people who don't have the temperament to do it properly. It's not difficult, technically...it's very difficult if you don't have the right temperament, regardless of your "process") and why they charge what they charge. Do they get out every pressable defect? How do they examine a book? Are they willing to give you an analysis of the book, before AND after? What temperatures do they subject your book to? What type of moisture do they subject your book to? Do they practice disassembly? Do they have a damage policy? Do they TELL YOU when they've damaged your property? 

These are all questions all pressers should be asked, and should be made to answer. Until and if that happens, crummy pressers will continue to smush books, and there will be no change.

Pressing is an artform, and should be practiced by artists...not hacks.

 

I like your style, dude...