CGC v. Company X
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11 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

I've seen cover tanning mentioned in grader's notes, so I assume that they do deduct for it.  I think it was mentioned on label notes years ago, but these days I think only detached covers, detached cfs, tape, and minor amounts of glue and ct (too minor to merit making the book a PLOD) are typically noted on the label.

Last November one of my Bakers came back without a notation that the cover was detached.  It seems to me that they're trying to force the purchase of their "notes".

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

Interesting.  I would love to see a picture of a Savannah comic with this defect just so I could clearly envision it.  :sick:  Thanks for the reply!

Like the Lizard, I am not fond of the Savannah pedigree either. I think I read somewhere that the books were stored in two different locations. One in a barn or garage and the other inside the house. I think the books stored in the barn or garage are the worst for preservation and the books inside the house better. I do have a couple Silver Age Savannah's with White pages that look fine but just a couple. Most Savannah's have CR/OW page quality with a browning effect on the cover. Not a fan. 

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Sometimes the reputation of the Savannah pedigree precedes them. Funny story I heard from a reputable dealer. Upon submission of the Savannah copy of Hulk 181, it received a 9.6 CR/OW. Since the integrity of the book was flawless, except for the browning effect, the book was resubmitted a number of times, maybe by different owners, only to get the same grade. Finally, it was submitted without reference to the pedigree, and it got a 9.8 . Crazy.

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20 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Like the Lizard, I am not fond of the Savannah pedigree either. I think I read somewhere that the books were stored in two different locations. One in a barn or garage and the other inside the house. I think the books stored in the barn or garage are the worst for preservation and the books inside the house better. I do have a couple Silver Age Savannah's with White pages that look fine but just a couple. Most Savannah's have CR/OW page quality with a browning effect on the cover. Not a fan. 

I guess I really lucked out!  All of mine are beautiful copies with no halos and OWW pages.  :wishluck:

us69_savannah_pedigree.jpg

That said, I will definitely keep in mind the experiences you all have related here and moderate my enthusiasm for Savannah.

Edited by Badger

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On 5/1/2018 at 6:44 PM, BeholdersEye said:

Whether it's for a personal collection or resale, buyers and collectors need to back-up the grading service who is most strict, so when the grades are compared, there's validity to the scale.

I've never quite understood this line of thinking, especially since I've seen it expressed so many times on the boards here.

So, are you saying that if Company X grades as book as a 8.5 and CGC grades it as a CGC 8.0, but then we have Company P grades it as only a 7.5, then Company P must be the best grading service and the one that deserves to be supported since it gives out the tightest grade.  So, imagine a scenario where Company X and CGC realizes what is happening to their lost business and decide to do Company P one better by now grading the books out even lower than Company P's 7.5 so that they can then be seen as the superior grading company.  hm

Sounds as though it's a race to the bottom then from my point of view.  :p  :screwy:

I would much rather prefer to support and back the grading service that can grade both accurately and consistently over an extended period of time.  (thumbsu

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33 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

II would much rather prefer to support and back the grading service that can grade both accurately and consistently over an extended period of time.  (thumbsu

There is going to be wax and wane over time for both companies. Consistency is a myth, it is not achievable. Staff turnover alone will make it not achievable. There is staff turnover between the companies, at the highest level possible. Let me ask you this, if consistency was a reality, why would anyone do a resub ? In theory, a resub should yield the same grade. 

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11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Let me ask you this, if consistency was a reality, why would anyone do a resub ? In theory, a resub should yield the same grade. 

Because as we all know, this is definitely not a perfect world and as you have already stated, thing will change over time.  As such, consistency is not a reality even though they might try their best to achieve it.

Of some concern here and a conspiracy theory no doubt, is that inconsistency might just have been built into their business model for the sole purpose of generating additional streams of revenues.  This would certainly also explained the oft repeated terms of "loose grading time periods" and "tight grading time periods" that we seem to see here on the boards. hm  :frown:

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On 5/5/2018 at 11:24 AM, jimbo_7071 said:
On 5/5/2018 at 9:43 AM, Mmehdy said:

harder grading does not equate to the actual grade, one could interpret this as the "other company" is not a jammed up and took more time to look at the books.....and is more accurate. They are both close, however a blanket policy of "under grading" just to be tough on a competitior makes us the loser.....if we use CGC, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, since the competitor is a former CGC employee with a great and respected reputation.

My go-to guide for grading is the original Overstreet grading guide that came out in the 90s. I don't think either of the companies is as strict overall, so I don't think anybody is undergrading books.

My biggest pet peeve is that books with cream-to-off-white pages sometimes get labeled 9.6 or 9.8. That always leaves me shaking my head.

Edited Saturday at 11:24 AM by jimbo_7071

Paul told me that it is the SECOND edition of the Overstreet Grading Guide that comes closest to CGC's grading standards/criteria.

Edited by MusterMark

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3 hours ago, MusterMark said:

Paul told me that is the SECOND edition of the Overstreet Grading Guide that comes closest to CGC's grading standards/criteria.

I don't know that I've ever looked at the second one. The first one has been good enough for me for 25+ years. (I'm not crazy about all of the B&W pictures.)

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On 5/8/2018 at 11:56 AM, lizards2 said:

Just about every one - just look at the back cover.  If there is no back cover scan, there is a reason for it!

You said you personally own 100+ of them - maybe take a look at them? 

Savannah may have some white page copies but even the ones that were graded "white" had a off-white look to the back cover when I saw them first hand. I avoid them.

Edited by Rip

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On 5/8/2018 at 1:59 PM, Yorick said:

Last November one of my Bakers came back without a notation that the cover was detached.  It seems to me that they're trying to force the purchase of their "notes".

You don't need to pay for notes on books you submit, do you? 

For the notes I see on the books I sub (all GA), I wouldn't buy them nor pay for any others as they are so minimal and uninformative. 

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On 5/8/2018 at 12:56 PM, lizards2 said:

Just about every one - just look at the back cover.  If there is no back cover scan, there is a reason for it!

You said you personally own 100+ of them - maybe take a look at them? 

The Savannahs I have are Uncle Scrooge and a few ASMs.  All of the US front covers are as nice as the one I posted and the interiors are OWW with no halos.  I actually read them before putting them up so that much I remember.  That said, I don't remember staring at the back cover.hm

I'll see if I can dig them out this weekend. I had planned on submitting a few of the better ones any way so this will kick that into gear.  This is the Heritage picture from one of the lots. As you can see the covers are not "cheesy" but that doesn't men there isnot something up with the back cover.lf?set=path%5B1%2F1%2F4%2F0%2F9%2F11409835%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5Dr.

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4 hours ago, Badger said:

The Savannahs I have are Uncle Scrooge and a few ASMs.  All of the US front covers are as nice as the one I posted and the interiors are OWW with no halos.  I actually read them before putting them up so that much I remember.  That said, I don't remember staring at the back cover.hm

I'll see if I can dig them out this weekend. I had planned on submitting a few of the better ones any way so this will kick that into gear.  This is the Heritage picture from one of the lots. As you can see the covers are not "cheesy" but that doesn't men there isnot something up with the back cover.lf?set=path%5B1%2F1%2F4%2F0%2F9%2F11409835%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5Dr.

The front book actually does have the 'cheesy' look that I'm thinking about.  I don't know about the interior halo - that was someone else adding stuff in, not me - but that front book likely does have an interior halo, since it has an exterior one.  It would be interesting to see some of the raw Savannah books, because all I've had are slabs, most of which I've unloaded, because if they look so terrible in the slab, they're going to look worse when cracked out.

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2 hours ago, lizards2 said:

The front book actually does have the 'cheesy' look that I'm thinking about.  I don't know about the interior halo - that was someone else adding stuff in, not me - but that front book likely does have an interior halo, since it has an exterior one.  It would be interesting to see some of the raw Savannah books, because all I've had are slabs, most of which I've unloaded, because if they look so terrible in the slab, they're going to look worse when cracked out.

Nice avatar Liz, expecting rain?

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4 hours ago, Foley said:

Nice avatar Liz, expecting rain?

I wish - droughty here. 

When Mike did the photoshopping in the 'Deader than ever' thread, I just had to change the old avatar.  Much better than standing between these two dweebs.

5af093147e8b4_gayumbrellaguyswithlizard.jpg.d2416b6164cbead279b7b99f4d07991f.jpg

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19 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I don't know that I've ever looked at the second one. The first one has been good enough for me for 25+ years. (I'm not crazy about all of the B&W pictures.)

anyone still have a second edition, the CGC was just a couple of years old at that time, did CGC make any comments about grading in that edition, did they agree with bob over street?..be interesting  see what was said.

Edited by Mmehdy

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3 hours ago, lizards2 said:

I wish - droughty here. 

When Mike did the photoshopping in the 'Deader than ever' thread, I just had to change the old avatar.  Much better than standing between these two dweebs.

5af093147e8b4_gayumbrellaguyswithlizard.jpg.d2416b6164cbead279b7b99f4d07991f.jpg

You be looking good Lizards2

th28I1RJZM.jpg

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So Metro was in collusion with Company X (no wonder that so many soft-graded books appeared right out of the gate), and now they're suing Company X for "defraud" damages, among other things.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/05/06/metropolis-collectibles-sues-cbcs-grading-and-slabbing-company/

It's like Bernie Madoff suing his gardener for not trimming his rose bushes properly - you just can't make this stuff up! :roflmao:

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On 5/9/2018 at 3:02 PM, telerites said:

You don't need to pay for notes on books you submit, do you? 

For the notes I see on the books I sub (all GA), I wouldn't buy them nor pay for any others as they are so minimal and uninformative. 

Notes are free for the specific book(s) you submit.  I agree that the notes are not very helpful, but I prefer the notations on the label for major problems like "cover detached".

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8 hours ago, sacentaur said:

So Metro was in collusion with Company X (no wonder that so many soft-graded books appeared right out of the gate), and now they're suing Company X for "defraud" damages, among other things.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/05/06/metropolis-collectibles-sues-cbcs-grading-and-slabbing-company/

It's like Bernie Madoff suing his gardener for not trimming his rose bushes properly - you just can't make this stuff up! :roflmao:

In you opinion, what is the real story behind the lawsuit? just an opinion,...in the most recent HA auction which took place today, there was little if any of the other guys books compared to CGC , why prevent them from merging  with Beckett, seems like a better chance to me to settle the suit with a bigger fish.....and this " SPECIAL" deal...to me it seems....well, compromised in terms of what is going here and in fairness to the general public.  If I had to guess, myself, CC/Mero might have had a option to purchase some or all of the other guy....and that is why they are so upset...again, nothing personal, but I would never use the "other" guy for just these reasons and the unfairness to CC/Metro.

Edited by Mmehdy

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