Rick2you2 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) I don't think the impact of dialog on a comics page--or the price of the page--is getting the attention it deserves. Sure, some art stands alone; but in a lot of other cases, the art supports tlhe dialog which directs the story. When that happens, it affects the price and the page quality. Yet, the relationship between dialog and art is almost always ignored. Comic art isn't designed to be hung on a wall. It is designed to convey a story. Take a look at the Aparo panel page I have included here. Artistically, it is little better than a 6 panel (and yes, I know it is actually 7 panels with a small splash). Strip it of the dialog, and it's pretty bland. Just the Phantom Stranger and Cassandra Craft having a disagreement, making up, and walking off. But if you consider the dialog, it becomes much more. It is now a fully contained, romantic scene in which the Phantom Stranger decides not to stay a complete stranger--all in classic comic style. It turns "ho-hum" into something strong. I'm wondering how many of you actually consider dialog when buying a page, or more precisely, consider how well does the art support the dialog which combine to move along the story? If so, what do you look for? Edited May 2, 2018 by Rick2you2 Unca Ben and NicoV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peck Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The dialog on a page is very important to me in purchasing a page of art. Many times its the reason I pick a particular page from a comic. On the flip side comic art pages without dialog turn me off and 9 times out of 10 I will not buy a page without dialog on it. The page would have to convey the scene really well without the words to get me to buy it. Here is one of my favorite pages of dialog. from God Loves Man Kills (looking for the other three pages from this sequence pages 60,61,63) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmendryk Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Generally I prefer cover and splashes where dialog is often not important. But if I pick up a piece of story art dialog may be an important factor. This page from Avengers #6 has great art by Jack Kirby, but it is Stan Lee's dialog that IMO make it something special. The Voord, zhamlau, Unca Ben and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Marino Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I think dialog / FX have always had a huge effect. people want "It's clobbrin' time", "sknit", "with great power comes great responsibility", "Spoon!" and all the other great catch phrases of comics always. But I think dialog also goes hand in hand with saying a key, memorable story moment. So, it's not even just dialog, it's when something cool happens, and the dialog supplements that cool moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGS Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The presence of dialogue definitely impacts the value for me, especially if the dialogue is important in the context of the story. For example, I certainly paid more for this Preacher page (thanks, Claudio) than I would have if the word balloons weren’t on there. Mike mister_not_so_nice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Sid Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I love the Vertigo series 100 Bullets and own several Eduardo Originals. Somewhere around issue 45 they switched to doing the lettering digitally. Over the years, I've found that when it's time for me to sell a page, I pick one of the ones without word balloons on it. Likewise, when I'm looking at pages to bid on, I only seriously consider adding ones with dialogue. mister_not_so_nice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeGiant Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Sounds like I am in the minority. I first look at the visuals of the page and that is the primary driver for purchase consideration. If you need the dialog to make the page more interesting than it might not be all that interesting visually and need the help. I would probably say that some pages that are older and high on the nostalgia meter might be aided by the dialog but just seeing those pages and I recall the story immediately when seeing it and would not balk at a purchase if the dialog was missing as it is burned into my head. Art > story has always been my preference in terms of comics I most appreciate and the same holds true on collecting the art from these stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Sometimes like on a good sandman page dialogue makes the page much more desirable. Beyond the fact that Gaimans writing is likely the most refined and personal ever seen in comics, if you have a Morpheus page you sure as heck want to see that black cloud dialogue bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideshow Bob Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Without the dialogue, this page is blah. With text, its awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) If you only collect art with dialogue balloons, you are going to miss out on all the great modern art out there without them. Moreover, I thought that was what acetate overlays were for? Edited May 3, 2018 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGS Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Yeah, I’m not going to skip out on modern art because it doesn’t have the word balloons, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t bother me at all. As with the 100 Bullets example above, given the choice between two similar pages from the same artist on the same book, I’d take one with the word balloons and be willing to pay a bit more for that. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Marino Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, Sideshow Bob said: Without the dialogue, this page is blah. With text, its awesome! I feel like this page is a great example of what i was talking about above. This is an awesome story moment without dialog and very memorable. Just looking at the page w/o reading i remember this moment of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisquitodoom Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I'm a huge fan of dialog on pages. For many things I collect, like Alan Moore's runs on books, the dialog just makes it. One of my favorite examples from his Swamp Thing run. Without the dialog, it's not a great page. With the dialog, some really sinister stuff. In my opinion, dialog on the page almost always makes it better. Modern stuff without dialog is fine, but to me, a lot of it is just too splashy. It has its place, but I mostly like pages for the story they tell. Some of my favorite pages in my collection are the 1st pages to books, splash or not. They set things up and establish the scene and the overall feel for the book. When done well, they can be just as impactful as the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotSuperPowers? Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Like many others, I'd want lettered art given the choice. But it won't stop me buying the art especially as I read a handful of current books. Check these 2 pages of Wes Craig action from Deadly Class. They're definitely helped due to the inked sound effects and stand well on their own. Then read the dialogue on the pages to see the extra draw on them for me. So yeah words great, but they don't take away from the pages that they aren't there, even though I bought them for both the content and the words on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, GotSuperPowers? said: Like many others, I'd want lettered art given the choice. But it won't stop me buying the art especially as I read a handful of current books. Check these 2 pages of Wes Craig action from Deadly Class. They're definitely helped due to the inked sound effects and stand well on their own. Then read the dialogue on the pages to see the extra draw on them for me. So yeah words great, but they don't take away from the pages that they aren't there, even though I bought them for both the content and the words on them. The pages you include are examples where the words are almost superfluous to the action. Do they help it? Sure. But you can fully enjoy the pages without the dialog. Compare that to the Kirby/Lee page of Hmendryk (Harry Mendryk?)where the fighting is almost secondary to the exposition of the story: Here, Lee had a message to send; it didn't matter if he was kicking or punching Zemo. Nice "old school" page design, by the way. In my opinion, more should be said when reviewing a page of art, too, by pointing out how well the story integrates with the art. And, there are times the opposite happens, as when a splash is used for something which doesn't justify a whole or half page, and either the writer needed some space to fill or the artist didn't emphasize the correct importance of an event. Those deserve some negative points no matter how good the artist is. Edited May 4, 2018 by Rick2you2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 2018-05-02 at 3:52 PM, Rick2you2 said: I don't think the impact of dialog on a comics page--or the price of the page--is getting the attention it deserves. Sure, some art stands alone; but in a lot of other cases, the art supports tlhe dialog which directs the story. When that happens, it affects the price and the page quality. Yet, the relationship between dialog and art is almost always ignored. Comic art isn't designed to be hung on a wall. It is designed to convey a story. Take a look at the Aparo panel page I have included here. Artistically, it is little better than a 6 panel (and yes, I know it is actually 7 panels with a small splash). Strip it of the dialog, and it's pretty bland. Just the Phantom Stranger and Cassandra Craft having a disagreement, making up, and walking off. But if you consider the dialog, it becomes much more. It is now a fully contained, romantic scene in which the Phantom Stranger decides not to stay a complete stranger--all in classic comic style. It turns "ho-hum" into something strong. I'm wondering how many of you actually consider dialog when buying a page, or more precisely, consider how well does the art support the dialog which combine to move along the story? If so, what do you look for? Is it for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESeffinga Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I figured Gene would be all up in this topic by now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo M Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I agree that words may have a bigger impact on collectors' choice than people assume. Obviously the image and the emotional connection will always be the prime drivers for my choices, but in some cases the text might give me that one extra point in motivation, and maybe - just maybe - a bit of more money I am willing to spend. Case in point, I always pause on the thought bubble in panel four when I look at this page I acquired recently. Comics differ from other illustration art because the mix art and text, if you love the medium there must be some value attached to the text. And if it is included in the OA, so much the better. Rick2you2 and Doc McCoy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc McCoy Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Though I enjoy many of today's modern artists, I've often found myself seeking out bronze era and older pages with dialogue more recently. Unless the artist has completely conveyed the story through the art on their panels (and in today's world of computer enhancement, they often haven't), the lack of dialogue has left many modern pages feeling bland. Rick2you2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 6 hours ago, piper said: Is it for sale? No chance. Nor are any of the other ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
