Dialog's Effect on Art and Art Values 2 2

[Rick2you2]

4 minutes ago, Doc McCoy said:

Though I enjoy many of today's modern artists, I've often found myself seeking out bronze era and older pages with dialogue more recently.  Unless the artist has completely conveyed the story through the art on their panels (and in today's world of computer enhancement, they often haven't), the lack of dialogue has left many modern pages feeling bland.

It's a shame there is no easy way to have the dialog placed on acetate sheets as an overlay to the art itself. In many cases, the piece would be more compelling piece.

Let me add that the absence of dialog may depress the overall market for more recent OA where it is no longer included. I don't mean the "stars" or special pieces, which will always exist, but the more typical pieces.  

[vodou]

18 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Let me add that the absence of dialog may depress the overall market for more recent OA where it is no longer included.

I think this will matter very little in a decade or so, just like the big deal over SA large or small art has disappeared. Sure, all other things being equal folks want LA, just like they want word balloons but when an entire series, entire decades (already there for both of those) and now entire generations of comic readers/collectors have only known 'new' art to be 'no balloons' and have much less attachment that we old folks do to 'old' art...it just will not matter. It will take longer but eventually even those 1/1 print(out)s made by the artists for digital-only art will be no-big-deal.

[chrisco37]

I prefer the word balloons (which would be especially important to me on, say, an Alan Moore book), but their absence hasn’t stopped me from buying.

I can think of one instance, though, where I bought a page more for the words than the images.  It was a Hellblazer page.  I’ll try to post a pic & explanation tonight.

[Rick2you2]

45 minutes ago, vodou said:

I think this will matter very little in a decade or so, just like the big deal over SA large or small art has disappeared. Sure, all other things being equal folks want LA, just like they want word balloons but when an entire series, entire decades (already there for both of those) and now entire generations of comic readers/collectors have only known 'new' art to be 'no balloons' and have much less attachment that we old folks do to 'old' art...it just will not matter. It will take longer but eventually even those 1/1 print(out)s made by the artists for digital-only art will be no-big-deal.

The difference is that a comic art is a combination of artwork and scripting. Consider a fine art example by Roy Lichtenstein, and ask if art without dialog would be effective:

[vodou]

42 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

The difference is that a comic art is a combination of artwork and scripting. Consider a fine art example by Roy Lichtenstein, and ask if art without dialog would be effective:

My opinion only, but - the dialogue does not add or subtract to the art here (as a panel pulled out of sequential context).

Visually this has very similar appeal to me as this:

and this:

and this:

I like 'em all, with or without "words", whether intended to have or not.

[hmendryk]

In an earlier post I commented how the text on a page of original art played a significant part of the appeal. Here I will give an example where absent word balloons really don't matter, in fact the original art is all the better without them. Pages 5 and 6 from The Incredible Hulk #461, pencils by David Brewer and inks by Andrew Pepoy.

 

[Stefanomjr]

I'm new here so my art is all modern, and alas, sans dialogue. Has there been an instance where the dialogue took away from the art? That you were drawn to the sequential storytelling, then paused to read and found the page less appealing? SInce, so far, all my OA is modern, I find I am drawn to OA that can stand alone without the word balloons and captions. Where you can infer the scene from the body language and facial expressions and mood. 

 

As for future purchases, I think any purchases that have dialogue... I'd judge the dialogue with equal weight as the artwork.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Stefanomjr
Added example of my OA

[ESeffinga]

Dialogue / No Dialogue, I dig the way Murphy drew that spiral staircase!

[chrisco37]

Here’s the Hellblazer page I mentioned earlier (sorry for the poor lighting; page isn’t yellow)...

When I was big into the series/character, I wanted a page that captured the “who” of Hellblazer.  Found this page by Marcelo  Frusin (an artist that I dig).  Not much action, but I thought the scene (notably the dialogue) captured the spirit of the character at the time.  I wouldn’t have bought it without the balloons.

 

[Carlo M]

Even splashes or covers are more charming with the balloons and title effects. The splash below would definitely be less charming without the text  Who can beat "Time which cannot be touched, cannot be seen, is the strongest trap in the world"... Einstein himself could not be clearer...

 

[Carlo M]

On the other hand, modern art can be enjohable with no text, if the art itself is evocative enought.  I am not bothered by the absence of text in this piece, somehow I get the content all the same: Crystal feels something is wrong with Mother Earth..

 

[chico_suave_58]

Judging from the responses, I’m definitely in the minority. None of the art in my collection currently has text & I feel that any future art additions have to stand on their own artistic merits.

That being said, I can be convinced to add a piece with text if the art piece itself fits well within my collection.

Edited May 5, 2018 by chico_suave_58

[r100comics]

20 hours ago, Carlo M said:

I agree that words may have a bigger impact on collectors' choice than people assume.  Obviously the image and the emotional connection will always be the prime drivers for my choices, but in some cases the text might give me that one extra point in motivation, and maybe - just maybe - a bit of more money I am willing to spend.

Case in point, I always pause on the thought bubble in panel four when I look at this page I acquired recently.  Comics differ from other illustration art because the mix art and text, if you love the medium there must be some value attached to the text. And if it is included in the OA, so much the better.

Great page !

 

[Rick2you2]

21 hours ago, vodou said:

My opinion only, but - the dialogue does not add or subtract to the art here (as a panel pulled out of sequential context).

Visually this has very similar appeal to me as this:

and this:

and this:

I like 'em all, with or without "words", whether intended to have or not.

Oh gosh, no, they are very different. You are offering rolling waves, angry, swirling, and very nicely done. 

But the Lichtenstein art, which is highly regarded, has a cheesey "soap opera" majesty to it: a woman, in tears (yet still drowning) would rather die than ask Brad for help. Sure, the artist could have left out the dialog, but then it would just be a picture of rolling, angry waves. 

[Rick2you2]

21 hours ago, hmendryk said:

In an earlier post I commented how the text on a page of original art played a significant part of the appeal. Here I will give an example where absent word balloons really don't matter, in fact the original art is all the better without them. Pages 5 and 6 from The Incredible Hulk #461, pencils by David Brewer and inks by Andrew Pepoy.

 

The artist did a terrific job of sequential art story-telling. 

[bisquitodoom]

While I'm a huge fan of dialog on art, I think there are definitely exceptions.  I bought this Thor spread because I thought the image was just a great summation of what the book should look like.  I can't think of anything more Thor-y unless you crammed Loki in there somewhere.  But the published version has a bunch of word balloons that break up the image in a way that really does it a disservice.  It really is just a case of the specific art.  

[BCarter27]

19 minutes ago, bisquitodoom said:

While I'm a huge fan of dialog on art, I think there are definitely exceptions.  I bought this Thor spread because I thought the image was just a great summation of what the book should look like.  I can't think of anything more Thor-y unless you crammed Loki in there somewhere.  But the published version has a bunch of word balloons that break up the image in a way that really does it a disservice.  It really is just a case of the specific art. 

Wonderful! Who is the artist?

[bisquitodoom]

1 hour ago, BCarter27 said:

Wonderful! Who is the artist?

This was Tom Raney on pencils and Scott Hanna on inks.  I've always dug Tom Raney and he and Scott Hanna ended up doing some really nice work on Thor. 

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, bisquitodoom said:

While I'm a huge fan of dialog on art, I think there are definitely exceptions.  I bought this Thor spread because I thought the image was just a great summation of what the book should look like.  I can't think of anything more Thor-y unless you crammed Loki in there somewhere.  But the published version has a bunch of word balloons that break up the image in a way that really does it a disservice.  It really is just a case of the specific art.  

I think that as a piece of OA, you are right. But, as part of a story, some dialog would have helped move the story along. 

In your example, I think there was simply too much dialog. The writer could have let the art speak for itself and simply said something like: "The path of shattered dreams is a treacherous place; only Thor had the courage to find out its secrets." Maybe even do it in an artistic font reminscent of old Norse ruins. 

 

[bisquitodoom]

16 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

In your example, I think there was simply too much dialog. The writer could have let the art speak for itself and simply said something like: "The path of shattered dreams is a treacherous place; only Thor had the courage to find out its secrets." Maybe even do it in an artistic font reminscent of old Norse ruins. 

 

Very true.  I think placement was a lot of it for me too.  The published version seemed to have a very "just place those word balloons on there anywhere"  feel.