ASM 667... The Infamous Dell'Otto Variant... Advice Needed - Press or Not ? 1 1

[Buzzetta]

Before we begin... this is NOT a for sale thread.  So don't bother. 

This is a, "How best to squeeze as much out of this book as possible so my friend can put this toward a Batman 1 or something like that" thread. 

Okay... so... a good friend of mine recently came to me with his Dell'Otto variant as he wants to chase after a bigger book.  After some discussion, he decided that he wants to go after something big.  So we scanned it, packaged it and sent it off to CGC.  The book is in transit and is coming back a 9.2.  The book was not pressed.  After what was indicated by the grader's notes, we are wondering if a press is even worth it due to the demand and scarcity of the book.  He is making the final decision as to what to do.  I am simply tagging along for this ride.   I have no pony in this race.  

So... press it or not.   Attached are images of the book in raw form as well as a screen shot of the grader's notes.   As stated... eventually this book is to be used for a cash grab.  So feel free to throw in your comments. 

Grader's notes:

• light crease right tip of front cover
• very light crease right center of front cover
• very light spine stress lines breaks color

Feel free to thread carp away.  

@Jaydogrules

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Buzzetta

[1950's war comics]

Nice comic

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by 1950's war comics

[jaeldubyoo]

The problem with scans is that light creases, especially in white areas, often cannot be seen in the scans. Just looking at the scans, it's looks better than 9.2. But CGC notes that there are light creases. As long as the fibers aren't damaged along the creases, they probably can be pressed out. You need to look at it under magnification at different angles. 

[comicdonna]

Even if you get rid of the light creases, the light spine stress lines that break color might keep it from getting a higher grade.  

[Jaydogrules]

Hey Buzz,

I saw this book get added to the census yesterday.  I figured it was your friend's copy.  

9.2 is a little lower than I thought he might get, but as we discussed last month, those spine ticks aren't going to be helped with a press, and I'm not sure pressing out the "light creases" will be enough to actually increase the grade.  

Still a gorgeous book though, as always.  

-J.

PS: You may want to link this in the Celebrate Dell'otto thread to get more responses. 

[Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice]

this is the exact same book a few months ago we had all da drama with........sum guy was looking 4 us 2 grade it and then he was trying 2 sell it off.......turns out after many of us checked it out that it was without denial a fake forged copy of said book. This guy was a real sleeze bag.....so when u have these books that r super rare and worth bucks they will fake them and try to take u 4 a big ride.....b very careful when it comes 2 these kind of variant books because people r faking them.

p.s. maybe i'll try to find da thread and repost it........but it's from November thru Feb...somewhere in there

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice said:

this is the exact same book a few months ago we had all da drama with........sum guy was looking 4 us 2 grade it and then he was trying 2 sell it off.......turns out after many of us checked it out that it was without denial a fake forged copy of said book. This guy was a real sleeze bag.....so when u have these books that r super rare and worth bucks they will fake them and try to take u 4 a big ride.....b very careful when it comes 2 these kind of variant books because people r faking them.

p.s. maybe i'll try to find da thread and repost it........but it's from November thru Feb...somewhere in there

The copies you are referring to from a while back, those were definitely fake, and they were obviously fake.  

This copy, posted by Buzzetta, a long time and highly regarded boardie, is definitely an authentic copy, (and as you can see has been graded and certified by CGC).

-J.

[Buzzetta]

 

5 hours ago, Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice said:

this is the exact same book a few months ago we had all da drama with........sum guy was looking 4 us 2 grade it and then he was trying 2 sell it off.......turns out after many of us checked it out that it was without denial a fake forged copy of said book. This guy was a real sleeze bag.....so when u have these books that r super rare and worth bucks they will fake them and try to take u 4 a big ride.....b very careful when it comes 2 these kind of variant books because people r faking them.

p.s. maybe i'll try to find da thread and repost it........but it's from November thru Feb...somewhere in there

 

3 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

The copies you are referring to from a while back, those were definitely fake, and they were obviously fake.  

This copy, posted by Buzzetta, a long time and highly regarded boardie, is definitely an authentic copy, (and as you can see has been graded and certified by CGC).

-J.

I definitely appreciate that comment. 

Originally, my friend thought about posting his own note here but we both agreed that having me post it would lend some authenticity and some sincerity to the post.  He is not using this thread as a for sale thread.  When the book finally comes to market, after he decides whether or not to press it, I have told him that I believe it is best to list it on ComicLink and ComicConnect so that he can review any offers and then after that, the auction house can act as a facilitator to verify that the book was received and then shipped to the buyer.  He is new to selling bigger books and is starting to bring a large portion of his collection to market in order to go after something (in his words) "big".  

The books was not scanned in the holder (yet) because I now live midway through Long Island and he lives in the New York City area.  To scan the book properly he has to drive out here after work then drive home.  He drove out here already when we scanned the book in its raw state and sent images to Jaydog and a few others.  He also came to package up a bunch of silver books that he sent out to be pressed.  When I posted this thread, the package had arrived at Kennedy and was to be sent to his place.  I used the scans and asked him to screen shot the CGC grade in order to speed things along and to get the ball rolling without him wasting a trip. 

 

[Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice]

I wasn't referring 2 his book .....obviously it had been graded by CGC already so we knew it was legit.......just making a point about being careful when people try to sell u very rare variant books...i understand this wasn't a sell thread...and he was just looking 4 sum imput...

[speedcake]

How many "very light color breaking stress lines" are there? How big are they?

[1Cool]

No brainer.  It looks like this book get exponentially more expensive with even a couple grade bumps.  A 9.6 is highly unlikely but a 9.4 would be a big profit and who knows maybe it gets a 9.6 and your buddy gets rich.  The price is what? $60 - $70 for a regrade and a press.  Low cost - big reward is a retry to me.

[Spyder!]

Pretty easy Expected Value calculation here. 

Expected Value of a press and resubmit = (Probability of no grade bump) * (cost) + (Probability of grade bump) * (additional sale value)

Do we have a reasonable guess what the probability of a grade bump is from a press and resub on this one?  For the sake of argument, let's call it 50% chance of 9.4, 50% chance it comes back 9.2 again.

Ok, assuming you're out 100 bucks for the press and resub, and assuming the bump in value is $500 bucks from 9.2 - 9.4, here's how it works out:

.50 * (-$100) + .50 * ($500) = $200

With these assumptions, I would definitely say press and resubmit, because in expectation it's worth a couple hundred bucks.  You can tweak those assumptions if you like, but you would have to assume pretty low probability of no bump or low incremental value for the expected value not to be positive.

[Jaydogrules]

3 hours ago, speedcake said:

How many "very light color breaking stress lines" are there? How big are they?

This particular book is known for having pervasive spine issues.  If CGC isn't specifying how many there are I'm assuming it's more than a few.  Yes there is a significant value bump going from a 9.2 to a 9.4 but if he is looking to cash out now he's looking at another 2 months minimum before he can sell so that may play a factor.  Based on the grader notes though I have my doubts it would go higher, as I think the way the book lies on the scanner hides most of the spine issues (multiple colour breaking ticks).

-J.

[kevhtx]

Press all day. Yes, I'm more of a risk taker, but those notes are clearly pressable.

if I saw that one, I would jump on it due to the notes. It might even reach 9.6 depending on the grader. Solid 9.4 after a press imo. 

If it were my book, I would get it signed by Dell'Otto, pressed and graded (then probably sell and bank the profit).

I've hunt grades, pressed and bumped many books, that's a winner based on notes.

Edited May 5, 2018 by kevhtx

[justafan]

Normally I would say PRESS PRESS PRESS but there are 2 factors to consider here:

1. the defects that exist and where they exist

2. the current tightness of grading going on at CGC currently

1. Firstly: the scan probably hides a bit of the defects more than in-hand or using photos but even if they are not I can readily see 2 of the 3 listed defects:

- 2 color breaking spine ticks on the Back cover (1 in the middle of the spine, and 1 beneath the bottom staple)

-1 Color Breaking Crease up to 1/4" on the middle of the Front Cover at the tearduct of spidey's right eye dead center in the comic.

I can't see the 3rd defect listed as a crease at the Top Right Front Cover so may be that is the one that would press out.  Pressing may also reduce the appearance of the size of the spine wear but NOT the color break which appears to be between 1/16" and 1/8" on the back cover. 

Those 2 defects combined are likely keeping this book at 9.2.  Had the main crease been in a more obscure or less conspicuous area you might have a shot at a higher grade, I've seen similar books with the same defects get up to a 9.6. (yes even with a single color break crease up to 1/4" on the middle of the back cover).

2. Secondly: the consensus seems to be that we are in a very tight grading period with CGC where things like spine stress/ticks that used to be overlooked in a 9.6/9.8 are now getting judged harsher and color break creases in the middle of a book are judged harder than they were in the past.

I actually had a SA book Old label (ASM 38 I think) with the same defect get knocked down from a 9.4 to a 9.2 after an evaluation, press and regrade.  It had a light color break crease of the same size as in the Dell'Otto pictured, smack in the middle of the cover.  It was hard to see behind the old slab which is probably why it got the ok from the evaluator.  That was graded last fall.

 

My question is why didn't he have it pressed initially when sending it in to get graded in the first place?  That would have been my first choice.  However, I would suggest 1 of 2 selling options for your friend:

1. Sell the book as is and make sure the consignor or seller lists the fact that the book has not yet been pressed and there may be "potential" for an upgrade.  This may net a higher than usual bid/offer than for a 9.2 that has had all potential value maxed out already.

2. Send the book in to CCS or some other trusted pressing expert for on-hand visual inspection to provide professional opinion on whether it would benefit a press then decide.

 

 

[Buzzetta]

I don't think that we ever posted the eventual outcome.

The book was pressed by Joe and it came back a 9.6. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Buzzetta