Scott Williams seeking your opinion 1 1

[marktom]

18 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Thanks Mark!  I probably should have also asked about age and relative collecting experience people have.  I'm assuming older fans are less open to any blue line/digital elements?  (and I have no idea how old you are Mark, I was just thinking out loud after reading your post).  And for the record, I don't think there are any right answers.  The heart wants what the heart wants.

 

Yeah Scott, I'm old.....  20+ years collecting art. The differences of opinion will be more of a generational thing I'm sure.

--Mark T.

[marktom]

8 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Thank you!  How about a single piece by a single artist with the only blue line component being the layout, with the final pencils and inks on a single page/board?  That' really my main question of the moment.

 

I don't think there would be many people that had a problem with that Scott, assuming they were one-off pieces and the same blue lines weren't used for multiple pieces. 

--Mark T.

[MagnusX]

I stay away from any kind of digital product / blue lines / pen and inks in different pages...
you got the idea...

My advice for any artist who decide to go this route is:
If you are going to do this,
do it with pages you know have no value
like talking pages, heroes without costumes, no action pages.
But any cover and splash page or action pages do it the old and traditional way...

 

[eewwnuk]

All williams = all good.  Now let us know when we can sign up on the commission list!

[Yorick]

I have a few pin-ups that were not fully disclosed as digitally printed blueline with original inks.  Both pieces from the same (incredible) inker.  The first one I bought, the inks fully covered the bluelines and I could not tell that the underlying art was not original.  The second one I bought has blueline pixelation printed outside of clean inked lines (which has influenced me not to purchase any other digital blueline art from pencil/inker teams).  The second piece just looks bad upon close inspection.

On the other hand, I have a Sleeper page and Flash Gordon page where the artists used digital lines to get their layouts done, printed the blueline, and then embellished the page with beautiful hand worked inks.  Something about the start-to-finish approach by one artist makes it seem acceptable (but will still influence the amount of money I pay for the art).  And then I also have digital signed prints from Saga, because that artist does EVERYTHING digitally.  I just pay much much less to own something like that.

[RB3]

57 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Thank you!  How about a single piece by a single artist with the only blue line component being the layout, with the final pencils and inks on a single page/board?  That' really my main question of the moment.

 

Scott,

I'm guessing that would be ok, it would all depend on the end piece I guess as always.  Theres just something about blue lines that erks me.  But, if you can see the blue, but then see the final pencils, then, inks that would probably be ok.  I like seeing the pencil though.  After thinking about it, i would agree that if everything is from a "single" artist that would probably be alot better, and I would probably only purchase that piece from the artist or his/her rep.  

I do see the time savings, plus the savings of supplies for the artist in the end. Small tweaks without having to erase all the time could add up, especially when you print it out and once its physical and the piece is seen in hand rather than on a screen, the artist can then go back an tweak or fix with pencil.

Ill make you a deal.  Just do like three examples, pencil them and ink them, send them to me and Ill let you know!! HaHa!!  

[Michael Browning]

1 hour ago, MagnusX said:

I stay away from any kind of digital product / blue lines / pen and inks in different pages...
you got the idea...

My advice for any artist who decide to go this route is:
If you are going to do this,
do it with pages you know have no value
like talking pages, heroes without costumes, no action pages.
But any cover and splash page or action pages do it the old and traditional way...

 

I agree with this. I won't buy anything that has a digital component. I'm 45 and I've now been collecting 19 years (wow, time flies and it still seems like I'm one of the new kids on the block in the collecting world) and I don't want any art that is part digital.

[wormboy]

2 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

How about a single piece by a single artist with the only blue line component being the layout, with the final pencils and inks on a single page/board?  That' really my main question of the moment.

 

I wouldn’t mind this, but I really don’t like to see the blue lines. I’ve passed on art from artists I love because there was too much blue behind the inks, which is distracting to me.

[stinkininkin]

37 minutes ago, Michael Browning said:

I agree with this. I won't buy anything that has a digital component. I'm 45 and I've now been collecting 19 years (wow, time flies and it still seems like I'm one of the new kids on the block in the collecting world) and I don't want any art that is part digital.

Thanks for answering!  Do you mind if I dig just a little deeper?  I'm not arguing by any means, I'm just here to learn.  

At the end of the day, would you not be interested in a such a drawing because there might be some blue actually visible under the final traditional pencil lines and ink lines?  Are you adversed to stray blue lines as an underdrawing/layout even if it's from a traditional blue pencil?  I'm trying to figure out exactly where and why the scale gets tipped from 'that's a great piece and I would buy that' to 'that's a great piece but the least observable component was drawn on a computer and so I would not buy that'.

Or does the actual blue colored line not really matter, and it's something else about the process?  

Again, not wrong answer, just trying to figure this out. 

[stinkininkin]

3 minutes ago, wormboy said:

I wouldn’t mind this, but I really don’t like to see the blue lines. I’ve passed on art from artists I love because there was too much blue behind the inks, which is distracting to me.

Ah, that's what I was wondering in my answer to Michael Browning.  The actual blue line takes away from a pleasing aesthetic for you.  It's not the process itself.  Thanks.

[stinkininkin]

1 hour ago, Yorick said:

I have a few pin-ups that were not fully disclosed as digitally printed blueline with original inks.  Both pieces from the same (incredible) inker.  The first one I bought, the inks fully covered the bluelines and I could not tell that the underlying art was not original.  The second one I bought has blueline pixelation printed outside of clean inked lines (which has influenced me not to purchase any other digital blueline art from pencil/inker teams).  The second piece just looks bad upon close inspection.

On the other hand, I have a Sleeper page and Flash Gordon page where the artists used digital lines to get their layouts done, printed the blueline, and then embellished the page with beautiful hand worked inks.  Something about the start-to-finish approach by one artist makes it seem acceptable (but will still influence the amount of money I pay for the art).  And then I also have digital signed prints from Saga, because that artist does EVERYTHING digitally.  I just pay much much less to own something like that.

Put another vote down for start to finish single original by singular artist as being acceptable with unobtrusive digital layouts.

I'm sensing a bit of a trend here.

On your final point about digital prints as the actual original, I'm in agreement.  Enjoy them as prints, but they are different than anything that is primarily hand drawn.

Doesn't affect me, because that's not what I do.  Thanks!

[stinkininkin]

OK, here's another variation, specifically for commissions.  Digital layouts in light grey instead of blue?  Blue isn't really necessary if it's not being printed, and if the underdrawing is in light grey like very light pencil lines, would that be preferable to blue?

 

[The Voord]

7 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

I am changing up my process when I draw by doing much of the layout work digitally, and then transferring (printing) those layouts onto art board with a blue line, and then finishing the drawing with traditional pencil and ink.  Final art is all on one board, not a pencil page and an ink page.  My question is--Does this process discourage you, the fans, from considering buying either published or commissioned art done in this way or is it a non issue?

I don't see it as any different than doing the layouts/pencils in blue pencils like the old school masters, but I think older collectors in particular have an aversion to anything that has a digital component?  Or am I wrong?  Let me know what you think, either in simple thumbs up or thumbs down terms, or if you'd like to elaborate on your opinion a bit, by all means.

Thanks!

Scott

I'm definitely in the 'older collector' camp.

Manipulating layouts digitally sounds like a good way to prepare and tweak a drawing to me.  The printed blue line provides a template . . . and assuming the pencilling tightens-up the detail further (prior to the addition of inks), I personally, wouldn't have a problem with this approach . . . if all the work was executed by the same artist.

If the digitally-created layouts were printed-out for other artists to embellish the work, I could see this being a deal-breaking problem for potential art buyers.

Edited May 6, 2018 by The Voord

[RB3]

8 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

OK, here's another variation, specifically for commissions.  Digital layouts in light grey instead of blue?  Blue isn't really necessary if it's not being printed, and if the underdrawing is in light grey like very light pencil lines, would that be preferable to blue?

 

I would probably feel like I got cheated if I noticed light grey "printed" lines instead of blue.  I think the industry is use to seeing the blue as what it is, now changing up to grey or light grey I would think hey, this guy did this all digital then threw some pencils on to fool me then inked it.  

First above all would be full discloser that hey this is what I'm doing.  I look at all my pieces with a jewelers head loop so I can see pencils and the indents of on the paper, just very careful.  And I dont know what your rates are and I would love a piece from you, but If I was paying $800-$1,000 for a commission, I would like to see the pencils and then inks, no digital.  Especially with Jim Lee rates, I would not be happy with seeing anything digital.  

I sent you a PM to get your rates and to see about a commission piece.  

[Michael Browning]

1 minute ago, stinkininkin said:

Thanks for answering!  Do you mind if I dig just a little deeper?  I'm not arguing by any means, I'm just here to learn.  

At the end of the day, would you not be interested in a such a drawing because there might be some blue actually visible under the final traditional pencil lines and ink lines?  Are you adversed to stray blue lines as an underdrawing/layout even if it's from a traditional blue pencil?  I'm trying to figure out exactly where and why the scale gets tipped from 'that's a great piece and I would buy that' to 'that's a great piece but the least observable component was drawn on a computer and so I would not buy that'.

Or does the actual blue colored line not really matter, and it's something else about the process?  

Again, not wrong answer, just trying to figure this out. 

I appreciate the reply and questions. I am just very old school on my art collecting. I like to think that the entire process was done on a blank sheet of white drawing paper and having any part printed out and drawn over isn't my cup of tea.

None of this will all matter when all of us old guy collectors die off because I can see the changes happening now. My local comic shop owner bought some pages recently that were inks over bluelines and he loves them, even though he realizes that older collectors like me won't buy them. There were plenty of younger collectors at the shop who had no problem with that at all.

[chrisco37]

Scott - 

can you explain the process a bit more? Are you talking about rough layouts in blue line, then choosing the lines you like best and penciling/inking the finishes?   

[aokartman]

Sadly,

I don't think I will make the leap to inked bluelines for unpublished work.  Too much talent out there.  Some wonderful stuff!

Best, David

[Michael Browning]

1 minute ago, Bill C said:

I'm glad to hear younger collectors are buying art at all

I don't think there are a LOT of younger collectors who even know what original art is. Just recently, after I'd gotten a Ghost Rider cover, I took it into another shop to show the owner who is a big Ghost Rider fan and a customer said he almost bought the pages to the NEW Ghost Rider series, but he thought $25 a page was way too much. The comic shop owner, who doesn't REALLY understand comic art himself, said (surprisingly) "No, I know what you are talking about. What Mike bought is the ORIGINAL pencil and ink drawing. What you were thinking of buying was a print. Mike's is the ONLY one, while the artist can make as many of those prints as he wants to sell for $25 each." The comic shop customer, who is very into comics, looked confused and said "Isn't that what THAT is?"

So, I think there are a few, but most comic collectors/readers nowadays don't understand what comic art is and also probably won't have a problem with digital bluelines under inks or the art being all digital and printed out.

[aokartman]

18 minutes ago, Michael Browning said:

The comic shop owner, who doesn't REALLY understand comic art himself, said (surprisingly) "No, I know what you are talking about. What Mike bought is the ORIGINAL pencil and ink drawing. What you were thinking of buying was a print. Mike's is the ONLY one, while the artist can make as many of those prints as he wants to sell for $25 each." The comic shop customer, who is very into comics, looked confused and said "Isn't that what THAT is?"

This is a real issue for all collectors.  Getting the information out about how great "original comic art" is.  Interesting story!  David

[stinkininkin]

1 hour ago, chrisco37 said:

Scott - 

can you explain the process a bit more? Are you talking about rough layouts in blue line, then choosing the lines you like best and penciling/inking the finishes?   

That's pretty much it.  Drawing all the elements digitally so that anatomy, size, proportions and placement is all completely worked out, printing that out on one board in blue line, finishing the pencilling process with a lead pencil and then inking it with pens, brushes and white out.  There would only be one original.