I'm starting to hate commissions 1 1

[Michaeld]

Okay technically I didn't commission this piece. It was ready made and I purchased it. I am a big fan of this artist and when I saw the piece I grabbed it. It was not cheap. Turns out he had done it before. I don't know yet how many he has made but I know of at least one other. Everything is so exact it had to have been traced off of a template. There is a slight deviation in one area but that's is all as far as original work. This isn't the first time this has happened to me. As a matter of fact it has happened twice before. On one occasion years ago I commissioned an artist at a con to do a piece that I later discovered he had done before. At least with him there was no template used because I got to watch him do it and the quality of mine was far better. I'm really pissed off and bothered by this. You think you are getting something special but no. It's just a cookie cutter crowd pleaser the artist can just whip up easy cheesy. This may be the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to commissions. Just wanted to vent.        

Edited May 8, 2018 by Michaeld
misspelling

[stinkininkin]

17 minutes ago, Michaeld said:

Okay technically I didn't commission this piece. It was ready made and I purchased it. I am a big fan of this artist and when I saw the piece I grabbed it. It was not cheap. Turns out he had done it before. I don't know yet how many he has made but I know of at least one other. Everything is so exact it had to have been traced off of a template. There is a slight veneration in one area but that's is all as far as original work. This isn't the first time this has happened to me. As a matter of fact it has happened twice before. On one occasion years ago I commissioned an artist at a con to do a piece that I later discovered he had done before. At least with him there was no template used because I got to watch him do it and the quality of mine was far better. I'm really pissed off and bothered by this. You think you are getting something special but no. It's just a cookie cutter crowd pleaser the artist can just whip up easy cheesy. This may be the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to commissions. Just wanted to vent.        

That's bs and it sucks.  Other than those simple profile head shots all artist's do at shows which more or less look the same (really, how many ways can an artist draw a Batman profile or head shot and have it look substantially unique?), most ethical artist's I know would never do what you describe.  That's c r a p.

[ESeffinga]

As with all comic art, it's one of those buyer beware issues. not just with commissions, but certain artists do this a fair bit to have some originals to sell at shows.

My usual go-to guy when trying to explain this is Geoff Darrow. He's a pretty "extreme" example of the practice, but Darrow inks on Vellum. Given how tedious and busy his work is, it's no wonder he wouldn't want to risk inking his work over pencils. But then you have the convention show drawings, the eBay drawings that come from various comic dealers, etc.

 

Do even a quick search on CAF and you'll find a lot of the same/similar drawings used, recycled in whole or in part, etc. A character added here, or removed there. This character and that character square off for a fight, etc.

 

 

 

BUT, and here's the big but... but, Darrow doesn't charge a fortune for these. At least not when he sells them. They really are reasonably priced, and IMO it's totally fair. Just so long as you can go in knowing what you are getting.
Some other folks aren't quite so scrupulous or well known. This is where it's helpful for people in the hobby to spread this info.

 

[Mr. Machismo]

Removes the "original" from "original art" a bit, doesn't it. Why I'm not a fan of recreations, though that's a topic for another day.

[Pirate]

an artist I know of sells you the inked commission and then offers you first crack at the pencils.  If you say no, he sells it.  I have big issues with that.  Overall I'm more than likely done with commissions.

[Sideshow Bob]

I just got a pencil prelim (5x7in) used in creating a commission by Tim Sale (via Jason at Essential Sequential). I asked if it was possible to get the prelim inked by Tim because it was so awesome and would look great as a little piece. Was told that, in deference to the original commission purchaser with the final version, they don't allow inking of prelims. Likely it would come out too close to the final, thereby creating two copies of the commission in separate hands. I totally get that, and appreciate that Jason is protecting that original purchaser from getting diluted (from a certain point of view).  

[shadroch]

1 hour ago, Pirate said:

an artist I know of sells you the inked commission and then offers you first crack at the pencils.  If you say no, he sells it.  I have big issues with that.  Overall I'm more than likely done with commissions.

I'd say the buyer is paying only for the finished product and any preliminary work belongs to the artist. Giving the buyer first crack at the prelims is a courtesy, in my opinion. 

I like that the artist won't ink over prelim pencils. I can see that being problematic.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by shadroch

[Rick2you2]

5 hours ago, Michaeld said:

Okay technically I didn't commission this piece. It was ready made and I purchased it. I am a big fan of this artist and when I saw the piece I grabbed it. It was not cheap. Turns out he had done it before. I don't know yet how many he has made but I know of at least one other. Everything is so exact it had to have been traced off of a template. There is a slight veneration in one area but that's is all as far as original work. This isn't the first time this has happened to me. As a matter of fact it has happened twice before. On one occasion years ago I commissioned an artist at a con to do a piece that I later discovered he had done before. At least with him there was no template used because I got to watch him do it and the quality of mine was far better. I'm really pissed off and bothered by this. You think you are getting something special but no. It's just a cookie cutter crowd pleaser the artist can just whip up easy cheesy. This may be the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to commissions. Just wanted to vent.        

The way to avoid that from happening is to give the artist more specific information about what you want him to draw. Instead of saying that you want him to draw Batman, ask him to draw Batman throwing his batarang, or eating a slice of pizza. In fact, I think you'll get better commission results, too, if you have something specific in mind. 

Let me add a little pointer on convention sketches and commissions I have learned: bring samples. I typically carry around a couple of old volumes of Phantom Stranger art to offer the artist for guidance (and I sometimes put post-it notes on specific pages). If I wanted him sitting on a car for some reason, I would bring copies of cars I had in mind. The less time the artist spends doing research, the more time he/she is likely to spend on your project, and give you a better result.

[shadroch]

The way I'm looking at it, the buyer got the finished product that he paid for.  I may well be very wrong, but that's as I see it.

[stinkininkin]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

The way to avoid that from happening is to give the artist more specific information about what you want him to draw. Instead of saying that you want him to draw Batman, ask him to draw Batman throwing his batarang, or eating a slice of pizza. In fact, I think you'll get better commission results, too, if you have something specific in mind. 

Let me add a little pointer on convention sketches and commissions I have learned: bring samples. I typically carry around a couple of old volumes of Phantom Stranger art to offer the artist for guidance (and I sometimes put post-it notes on specific pages). If I wanted him sitting on a car for some reason, I would bring copies of cars I had in mind. The less time the artist spends doing research, the more time he/she is likely to spend on your project, and give you a better result.

Hmmm, personally, the more I get art directed, the less enthusiastic I am to do a piece.

[Mr. Machismo]

15 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Hmmm, personally, the more I get art directed, the less enthusiastic I am to do a piece.

How much is too much? “Batman on gargoyle” or “Batman throwing batarang” seems fair, no?

Not justifying this — personally I believe artists produce their best work when they’re given freedom and an outlet to have fun...but:

Some collectors need to state what they want before they can be satisfied; otherwise they have an image in their head they’ve failed to articulate, assume the artist will compose that, and are disappointed when it inevitably differs. 

[Rick2you2]

 

18 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Hmmm, personally, the more I get art directed, the less enthusiastic I am to do a piece.

To the extent someone wants to micromanage your work, I think that makes a lot of sense. But to the extent someone is just asking for basic scene elements, like Batman throwing a batarang, I would think it should help you. I mean, how many times can you draw Batman in the same basic pose without getting bored? 

[Rick2you2]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Some collectors need to state what they want before they can be satisfied; otherwise they have an image in their head they’ve failed to articulate, assume the artist will compose that, and are disappointed when it inevitably differs. 

In my case, it's more than satisfaction; it's to get the character right. I have a beautiful rendering by one artist of the Phantom Stranger fighting Tala. Ufortunately, the artist assumed the character was like Dr. Strange, so, the background is mystical instead of supernatural.

By the way, I do make a point of treating my views as preferences inviting rebuttal. If the artist feels I am stepping into his/her sphere of responsibility, I want that response. I'm not an artist, and I want their artistry, not just their drafting skills.

[BeholdersEye]

I'm surprised people are still into commissions to the degree what used to be a way to affordably get artwork as an option to published pieces and have a personal experience as well as a keepsake souvenir, how in recent years turned into a more cold business, with high rates, disappointing renderings, and often times artists who keep fans waiting months if not years (and counting!) after they've collected the money, cash in advance.  Commissions seems at times like the worst investment, in terms of cash outlay, time it takes to go through the process, and resale value return on investment percentage (compared to published art).  I do "get it" if you wanted specific renderings, customized for you, that doesn't exist as a published piece, you're buying something unique out of passion and fandom. 

[Rick2you2]

6 hours ago, BeholdersEye said:

I'm surprised people are still into commissions to the degree what used to be a way to affordably get artwork as an option to published pieces and have a personal experience as well as a keepsake souvenir, how in recent years turned into a more cold business, with high rates, disappointing renderings, and often times artists who keep fans waiting months if not years (and counting!) after they've collected the money, cash in advance.  Commissions seems at times like the worst investment, in terms of cash outlay, time it takes to go through the process, and resale value return on investment percentage (compared to published art).  I do "get it" if you wanted specific renderings, customized for you, that doesn't exist as a published piece, you're buying something unique out of passion and fandom. 

I think they are fun to get, and let you interact with the artist. In regard to the pricing structure, some of it is nutty, I agree with that, but I don't buy those. 

[Pirate]

14 hours ago, Bill C said:

I very well may be reading it wrong, but it sounds like it's the pencils, not a prelim. Meaning someone commissions the piece, the artist does the pencils, then does the inks on a separate blueline printout. Gives (sells) the inks to the commissioner, and has 2 pieces to sell now- when the pencils really shoulda been under the inks.

You are reading it right.

[Michaeld]

If I ask an artist to draw something specific and I buy it when it is completed that is a commission. If you buy a piece that was drawn by the artist without having been requested by anyone (including yourself) and wasn't published anywhere what do you call that? What did you just buy? I ask because in my CAF gallery under "Art Type" I'm given 24 options and none of them adequately defines this type of purchase. I thought maybe pin-up but I'm assuming that applies to a piece that was published.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Michaeld
misspelled

[Bird]

I thought the OP might be talking about Geof Darrow. As detailed above, he has a few poses that he (generally) sticks with that is what you get with Rusty, Big Guy, Hardboiled guy, and Shaolin Cowboy when you buy those pieces at shows. But they are giant and fun and all Darrow, what are you going to do.

I even commissioned Bill Sienkiewicz to do a recreation of his Superman 400 pinup. He lightboxed it and did a great version for me. I knew it was lightboxed as soon as I saw it but it bothers me not.

In many ways you should assume Wally Wood's rules apply in all instances. (The "when you can cut and paste, cut and paste. When you can copy, copy. When you can swipe a pose, swipe. Then draw what you HAVE to draw." rule. Not the 22 panels. Or Toth's 10 rules. Man, lots of cool rules.) Think of it as Universal Precautions for commissioning.

[Bird]

Think of it another way...how many cool poses are there for a character? They find a way they like to portray characters and are probably smart to reproduce those poses with small alterations each time. The Travis Charest Captain Americas are great pieces...take a great pose and work a little differences into each individual piece. 

Besides, what comic artist draws what they are told? If Stan the Man can look at pages back from the artist and wonder what happened along the way why should any of us expect better?  

[malvin]

55 minutes ago, Michaeld said:

If I ask an artist to draw something specific and I buy it when it is completed that is a commission. If you buy a piece that was drawn by the artist without having been requested by anyone (including yourself) and wasn't published anywhere what do you call that? What did you just buy? I ask because in my CAF gallery under "Art Type" I'm given 24 options and none of them adequately defines this type of purchase. I thought maybe pin-up but I'm assuming that applies to a piece that was published.

Pinup is probably a good description 

 

Malvin