I'm getting priced out of collecting 4 4

[KirbyJack]

I took this pic yesterday at work, and I thought of this thread. Not saying anything, just felt like it needed to be posted.

Edited May 13, 2018 by KirbyJack

[grayzr]

1 hour ago, Kramerica said:

I'm pretty this book IS common as dirt - relatively speaking. Cases of FF #48's were found along with other books - such as DD 6, FF 54, 59, Thor 142 & 156, Avengers 24, ASM 45, Iron Man 2 Captain Marvel 3, I think Chuck had 10,000 copies of FF 48. More info can be found here:

 

Like the diamond trade most of those will never be offered to the public because dealers don't want that many copies available.

The only thing that matters is how many are floating around for sale and currently its nothing close to 10k.

Just look at amazing spider-man 300 for example.

I know of many collectors including myself that have over 50 copies (its my fav spider-man book) some have 100s of copies.

If you go type amazing spider-man 300 on eBay and select sold listings you will see a total of 1,119. 

Thats 3 months worth of sales, graded, raw etc. 

Compared to the 100s of thousands out there its not even 1%

If there was ever a time to sell that book it would be now.

 

If I found 10k copies FF 48s I would only sell maybe a few of the highest over a period of time as to not saturate the market, because it would hurt my profits. 

Im sure many would do the same.

This is why hoarding books will always keep the bulk of them out of the hands of the masses. 

[oakman29]

It's probably one of the most important books in the entire F.F. run, about time it has received its due.

[kidcolt]

I stopped buying comics maybe 10 years ago. In the past few months I got the itch to collect again I was blown away by how much prices have jumped. Even crappy books that were once available everywhere and couldn’t sell is now jumped sometimes 20 times or more the price 10 years ago. I haven’t bought any I have since decided not to collect it’s not worth it as all these will drop and be easily available again in a few years. This trend won’t continue.

[shane1956]

Until I start seeing some actual evidence of these 10,000 or so FF 48's by way of a portion showing up on the census I'm calling nonsense. We've all heard the "stories" but not a single person has shown us a nice group photo of these mysterious "stacks". Simple logic would suggest that where there is money there is someone wanting to make it. If there were 10,000 copies out there I think a few more would have surfaced in CGC holders by now. 

Until then, the reality is this book is going to rise given it's importance. I paid $4600 U.S last month for my 9.2 copy. Would I pay it this week? Absolutely . Would I ever sell it for a penny less unless stuck with some unexpected circumstances? Not a chance.

Friends , the market is set on this book. 9.2 and higher is $4500 and up at the moment. Good luck finding one of those other 10,000 copies . Let me know if you uncover big foot in the process. 

I would add that compared to the art world the prices paid for these books is  insignificant. There are so many buyers with money who are willing to pay hard cash for key books these days that the age of getting keys in high grade at low prices are long gone. The hobby has evolved and has started to get credibility with outside collectors. People like myself exist . I view it as art. I display it as such. 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by shane1956

[Buzzetta]

7 hours ago, Hamlet said:

I was looking at GPA for some of the books I own and it looks crazy to me.  The last sale for an FF48 in CGC 7.5 is $2000.

That is just nutty.  I think I bought the book about 10 years ago for $350 or so.  

It a cool book, and a major key, but there are probably 10s of thousands of copies out there. It’s not hard to find in grade.  Who is buying all of these books at these levels?

I rarely go thru the effort to actually sell any of the books I buy, but I think I need to get off my butt and cash in on some of these.

 

I bought two copies of FF48 in a 6.0 in the same night for $390 and $350 each on eBay on March 7, 2014.  One of them is still in the box and the other was pressed to a 7.0.

GPA says that the last sale on a 6.0 was $1100 and the last sale for a 7.0 was $1500.  That is crazy for a warehouse find book that has PLENTY of higher grade copies available.  I will be having that other Old Label 6.0 pressed in and regraded in the next year.   Now if anyone wants to get a first Silver Surfer you are going to pay an insane price for even a midgrade copy.  Apparently the Surfer is the new Wolverine. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

4 hours ago, shane1956 said:

Until I start seeing some actual evidence of these 10,000 or so FF 48's by way of a portion showing up on the census I'm calling nonsense. We've all heard the "stories" but not a single person has shown us a nice group photo of these mysterious "stacks". Simple logic would suggest that where there is money there is someone wanting to make it. If there were 10,000 copies out there I think a few more would have surfaced in CGC holders by now. 

Until then, the reality is this book is going to rise given it's importance. I paid $4600 U.S last month for my 9.2 copy. Would I pay it this week? Absolutely . Would I ever sell it for a penny less unless stuck with some unexpected circumstances? Not a chance.

Friends , the market is set on this book. 9.2 and higher is $4500 and up at the moment. Good luck finding one of those other 10,000 copies . Let me know if you uncover big foot in the process. 

I would add that compared to the art world the prices paid for these books is  insignificant. There are so many buyers with money who are willing to pay hard cash for key books these days that the age of getting keys in high grade at low prices are long gone. The hobby has evolved and has started to get credibility with outside collectors. People like myself exist . I view it as art. I display it as such. 

Oh no. There are certainly more than 10,000 copies of FF #48 in existence. Remember, hoarding on a grand scale started in 1965. That's why there's such a tremendous difference between availability of books like FF #1-10, and books like Iron Man #1-10, despite being separated only by 7 years. People simply stopped throwing away their comics in the mid 60s, and we've never looked back.

FF #48 was, in fact, one of those books that you saw on dealer tables, in stacks, for "$1" in the early 70's at shows like San Diego. 

There are likely 100,000 or more copies of this book extant. It's simply that the demand is greater than the supply. 

 

 

[grayzr]

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Oh no. There are certainly more than 10,000 copies of FF #48 in existence. Remember, hoarding on a grand scale started in 1965. That's why there's such a tremendous difference between availability of books like FF #1-10, and books like Iron Man #1-10, despite being separated only by 7 years. People simply stopped throwing away their comics in the mid 60s, and we've never looked back.

FF #48 was, in fact, one of those books that you saw on dealer tables, in stacks, for "$1" in the early 70's at shows like San Diego. 

There are likely 100,000 or more copies of this book extant. It's simply that the demand is greater than the supply. 

 

 

That's great and all but when a book is on fire and there are less then 1200 sales in the past 3 months on eBay and less then 4k graded copies with 41 being 9.8  out there doesn't mean that those 100s of thousands are available.

Many dealers and collectors hoard for long periods of time. Even when movies or show announcements come out. making books appear more rare. Who knows how many Hulk 181s or ASM 129s are out there. The only thing that matters though is what's available and how much demand is in the current market.

Silver Surfer is becoming more and more desirable every day hence these crazy price rises over the past few months.

I bet my collection in the next year as more news and hype builds for the surfer you won't see anything close to 20k books sold, raw/graded what ever of FF 48 and that would only be 20% of the 100k that are supposedly out there.

[RockMyAmadeus]

4 minutes ago, grayzr said:

That's great and all but when a book is on fire and there are less then 1200 sales in the past 3 months on eBay and less then 4k graded copies with 41 being 9.8  out there doesn't mean that those 100s of thousands are available.

Many dealers and collectors hoard for long periods of time. Even when movies or show announcements come out. making books appear more rare. Who knows how many Hulk 181s or ASM 129s are out there. The only thing that matters though is what's available and how much demand is in the current market.

Silver Surfer is becoming more and more desirable every day hence these crazy price rises over the past few months.

I bet my collection in the next year as more news and hype builds for the surfer you won't see anything close to 20k books sold, raw/graded what ever of FF 48 and that would only be 20% of the 100k that are supposedly out there.

Didn't say there were 100s of thousands available. I said there was probably no less than 100k still in existence. 

There are certainly 50,000 or more Spidey #129s and Hulk #181s, if not more. 

I just bought a tiny collection of books that happened to have, unbelievably, an FF #48. It was one of about 10 "key" books the guy had, the rest being junk. This particular copy hadn't seen the light of day since the guy bought it as a kid in the early 70s. That particular copy was hidden away for nearly 50 YEARS.

And there are copies like that, hidden all over the place, all over the world.

And yes, the only thing that matters is availability...but there is enough availability to satisfy general demand. That is, if you want a copy, you can go to any national con and take your pick of copies, at any time of the year. The same isn't true, of course, for a book like Tales of Suspense #1, or Action #7, or Rawhide Kid #17, or....well, you get the idea.

[Senormac]

this is an interesting thread

Edited May 14, 2018 by Senormac

[grayzr]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Didn't say there were 100s of thousands available. I said there was probably no less than 100k still in existence. 

There are certainly 50,000 or more Spidey #129s and Hulk #181s, if not more. 

I just bought a tiny collection of books that happened to have, unbelievably, an FF #48. It was one of about 10 "key" books the guy had, the rest being junk. This particular copy hadn't seen the light of day since the guy bought it as a kid in the early 70s. That particular copy was hidden away for nearly 50 YEARS.

And there are copies like that, hidden all over the place, all over the world.

And yes, the only thing that matters is availability...but there is enough availability to satisfy general demand. That is, if you want a copy, you can go to any national con and take your pick of copies, at any time of the year. The same isn't true, of course, for a book like Tales of Suspense #1, or Action #7, or Rawhide Kid #17, or....well, you get the idea.

I see the same thing with ASM 300.

It's a running joke that every dealer and there mother has at the very least 1 if not 10 copies of that book.

Over the years of hunting in the wild I have come across dozens of copies.

I think it's the most graded book or second to NM 98, but even so the book is selling for nutty prices in the 9.0 plus range as of late.

As an owner of 50 something copies I find that crazy.

This just shows how powerful the current demand for books is today.

Many collectors either do no research or straight up don't care and are willing to it fork up mad money for stuff that's everywhere.

Since books like FF 48 are rarer then ASM 300 I have no doubt that this current generation of collectors will continue to throw money out the window.

 

 

[Hamlet]

18 hours ago, shane1956 said:

Until I start seeing some actual evidence of these 10,000 or so FF 48's by way of a portion showing up on the census I'm calling nonsense. We've all heard the "stories" but not a single person has shown us a nice group photo of these mysterious "stacks". Simple logic would suggest that where there is money there is someone wanting to make it. If there were 10,000 copies out there I think a few more would have surfaced in CGC holders by now. 

Until then, the reality is this book is going to rise given it's importance. I paid $4600 U.S last month for my 9.2 copy. Would I pay it this week? Absolutely . Would I ever sell it for a penny less unless stuck with some unexpected circumstances? Not a chance.

Friends , the market is set on this book. 9.2 and higher is $4500 and up at the moment. Good luck finding one of those other 10,000 copies . Let me know if you uncover big foot in the process. 

I would add that compared to the art world the prices paid for these books is  insignificant. There are so many buyers with money who are willing to pay hard cash for key books these days that the age of getting keys in high grade at low prices are long gone. The hobby has evolved and has started to get credibility with outside collectors. People like myself exist . I view it as art. I display it as such. 

 

Frankly, a 9.2 for $4500 makes a little more sense than a 7.5 for $2000.  While 9.2's aren't rare, there are a heck of a lot less of them than 7.5s.  Even books that were saved with some eye to preserve condition may not have been stored well enough to be a 9.2.

But there are a ton of 7.5's out there raw. 

I specifically bought a 7.5 back in the day because it's a nice looking book, but not so nice that it was attracting "investment" money.  A few hundred bucks for a decent-looking copy of such an important ( and cool ) book seemed like a good deal. 

I have a hard time justifying hanging onto it at current prices though.  I just don't think this is sustainable.