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Heritage June European Signature Auction
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37 posts in this topic

Surprised there isn't a thread about this yet.  Is it under the radar? (as if anything can be these days)

Mostly European art and not as many pieces as the "regular" signature auctions, but still quite a few highlights for me, such as:

Frank Cho Cover

Tim Sale Dark Victory page which is already at a healthy number

Bunch of Frank Miller Sin City Stuff

and more!

Discuss! :)

link to auction

 

Malvin

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Why 21% tax? Heritage told me that the art would be shipped from the Netherlands, so would this not be tax free in your case (assuming you’re in Belgium, but might be completely wrong)?

I have to say the whole auction is confusing to me. It’s called European comic art signature auction, but it includes non European art, the bids are in USD, the actual auction takes place in Texas and the art is in Europe? It’s really all over the place!

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24 minutes ago, oldwhy said:

Why 21% tax? Heritage told me that the art would be shipped from the Netherlands, so would this not be tax free in your case (assuming you’re in Belgium, but might be completely wrong)?

I have to say the whole auction is confusing to me. It’s called European comic art signature auction, but it includes non European art, the bids are in USD, the actual auction takes place in Texas and the art is in Europe? It’s really all over the place!

+1

Does anyone know if there will be standard shipping charges for US customers, or will we be paying for international shipping?

 

Edited by NinjaSealed
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6 hours ago, malvin said:

Surprised there isn't a thread about this yet.  Is it under the radar? (as if anything can be these days)

Mostly European art and not as many pieces as the "regular" signature auctions, but still quite a few highlights for me, such as:

Frank Cho Cover

Tim Sale Dark Victory page which is already at a healthy number

Bunch of Frank Miller Sin City Stuff

and more!

Discuss! :)

link to auction

 

Malvin

Absolutely nothing in this auction for me.

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11 hours ago, oldwhy said:

Why 21% tax? Heritage told me that the art would be shipped from the Netherlands, so would this not be tax free in your case (assuming you’re in Belgium, but might be completely wrong)?

I have to say the whole auction is confusing to me. It’s called European comic art signature auction, but it includes non European art, the bids are in USD, the actual auction takes place in Texas and the art is in Europe? It’s really all over the place!

It's called European comic art auction because this auction is based in Europe (Netherlands) and the two "experts" are a French and a Belgian gallerists who previously worked with Sotheby's on a couple of auctions these last years (one of them also being a huge comic art collector). Regarding USD, I guess Heritage website is not designed to handle auctions in another currency. But as you can always see bids in any currency that's not really an issue.

Regarding buyer fees, it's more than usually (25% instead of 19.5%) but it does not change anything for us European collectors because we used to pay the 19.5% buyer fees + 5.5% custom fees = 25%. The only difference is that we won't have to pay for shipping. 

That's my understanding, I may be wrong  ;-)

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1 hour ago, NicoV said:

It's called European comic art auction because this auction is based in Europe (Netherlands) and the two "experts" are a French and a Belgian gallerists who previously worked with Sotheby's on a couple of auctions these last years (one of them also being a huge comic art collector). Regarding USD, I guess Heritage website is not designed to handle auctions in another currency. But as you can always see bids in any currency that's not really an issue.

Regarding buyer fees, it's more than usually (25% instead of 19.5%) but it does not change anything for us European collectors because we used to pay the 19.5% buyer fees + 5.5% custom fees = 25%. The only difference is that we won't have to pay for shipping. 

That's my understanding, I may be wrong  ;-)

With charges like that, it's no wonder you poor folks have to make do by eating snails and frogs' legs.

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53 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

There was something I really liked there, but wow, thank you for the pick-up. 

Not sure you'll get charged the 21% tax since you are in the US.

I was going to go hard for the Wood - Spirit in Space page, but if ends at $10K, I end up paying $15000+ for it, no thanks.

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2 hours ago, NicoV said:

It's called European comic art auction because this auction is based in Europe (Netherlands) and the two "experts" are a French and a Belgian gallerists who previously worked with Sotheby's on a couple of auctions these last years (one of them also being a huge comic art collector). Regarding USD, I guess Heritage website is not designed to handle auctions in another currency. But as you can always see bids in any currency that's not really an issue.

Regarding buyer fees, it's more than usually (25% instead of 19.5%) but it does not change anything for us European collectors because we used to pay the 19.5% buyer fees + 5.5% custom fees = 25%. The only difference is that we won't have to pay for shipping. 

That's my understanding, I may be wrong  ;-)

 

You only pay 5.5% customs fee ? Wow, we pay 31%.

Most of the times I win something on Heritage, it's cheaper for me to fly to the US and take it back with me on the plane than it is to have it shipped.

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19 hours ago, chromium said:

25% buyer's premium + 21% tax on top of that...looks like I'll be sitting this one out.

 

The "European" auction should have a focus on European art, not the location, it seems silly and counter-intuitive marketing, causing confusion and potential alienation.  On first impression it reads as if it were stuff by Manara, etc., and free non-European artists.  That's poor marketing by Heritage.

Secondly, to me, the buyer's premium is already high and an increase is a poor customer relations move, very short term greedy.  If there's increased overhead, that's their cost of doing business, and shouldn't be putting those costs to the buyers.

I understand the taxes is something they may collect on behalf of the territory and don't profit off of, so that can't legally be circumvented.  Even in the US, they have sales tax in certain areas as high as 10% (in California) they have to add to the buyer's invoice.

That's in part, why many sellers and buyers like using ComicLink, so there's not that 20-30% increase to their bid price after paying buyer's premiums, taxes then shipping fees.

I know Heritage has huge overhead with their catalog and live auction, but if they put their revenue model with the fees coming from the consignor than the buyer, instead of both ways, like ComicLink, they may find a seller who sells a piece for $100,000k is more than happy to pay them a commission of 15%, than a buyer who bids $100,000k now having to add $20k to their bill is often less than elated, so reduce or eliminating a buyer's premium may inspire more bidders and higher bids (removing the fear facotor of the premium).

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20 minutes ago, BeholdersEye said:

Secondly, to me, the buyer's premium is already high and an increase is a poor customer relations move, very short term greedy.  If there's increased overhead, that's their cost of doing business, and shouldn't be putting those costs to the buyers.

 

I wouldn't care if the BP were 0.99%, 9.9% or 99.9%.  It would change the amount I would bid, but wouldn't change my total outlay at all.

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2 hours ago, tth2 said:

I wouldn't care if the BP were 0.99%, 9.9% or 99.9%.  It would change the amount I would bid, but wouldn't change my total outlay at all.

If everyone thinks this way, then it will definitely impact the final results downwards for consignors.

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7 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

If everyone thinks this way, then it will definitely impact the final results downwards for consignors.

I’m always amazed when I find anyone who doesn’t think this way. 

Regardless of if the piece is on Heritage or Comiclink my high bid is the same. If I’m willing to spend $1000 on a piece I bid $800 on Heritage + 20% BP and $1000 on Comiclink.

Bid based on the art, not the house. 

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3 minutes ago, RabidFerret said:

I’m always amazed when I find anyone who doesn’t think this way. 

Regardless of if the piece is on Heritage or Comiclink my high bid is the same. If I’m willing to spend $1000 on a piece I bid $800 on Heritage + 20% BP and $1000 on Comiclink.

Bid based on the art, not the house. 

Yeah, I wasn’t able to complete my thoughts, but everyone thought this way, then as a consigner I’d be better off to consign to HA in the US and pocket more money.

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1 hour ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Yeah, I wasn’t able to complete my thoughts, but everyone thought this way, then as a consigner I’d be better off to consign to HA in the US and pocket more money.

So with regards to US auctions:

- with Clink the seller gets 90% of the hammer price.  And at heritage the seller gets at most 84% the final(with juice) price if they negotiated a zero % seller fee - or appox 68% of the final hammer (with juice) if they are paying the full seller fee.

 

Example.

If an item sells for $100 at Clink - seller gets $90.

If an item sells for $100 ($84 + 19%) the seller who negotiated zero fees gets $84. The seller who still has to pay a 19% seller fee only ends up with $68.

 

That' $90 the seller gets at  clink vs $68 at HA.

So if my example is accurate - it comes down to this - can HA by virtue of what it does get much higher ending prices for the same items? If yes - they need to do so by a good margin to overcome the fact that they have so many fees.

 

Feel free to correct any errors

Edited by Panelfan1
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10 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:
12 hours ago, tth2 said:

I wouldn't care if the BP were 0.99%, 9.9% or 99.9%.  It would change the amount I would bid, but wouldn't change my total outlay at all.

If everyone thinks this way, then it will definitely impact the final results downwards for consignors.

You are correct, BP is important for consignors, although then the trick is for consignors to negotiate a rebate on the BP with the auction house.

But from the bidder's point of view, which is the post I was responding to, the BP shouldn't make any difference.  Any bidder who isn't an imbecile would factor the BP-inclusive price into his/her bid and thereby adjust the bid price accordingly.    

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38 minutes ago, tth2 said:

You are correct, BP is important for consignors, although then the trick is for consignors to negotiate a rebate on the BP with the auction house.

But from the bidder's point of view, which is the post I was responding to, the BP shouldn't make any difference.  Any bidder who isn't an imbecile or is paying a modicum of attention would factor the BP-inclusive price into his/her bid and thereby adjust the bid price accordingly.    

Revised that a bit :)  - I know of a few bidders who bid advance proxies with HA or bid late at night and forgot about the BP (several times involving 5 figure pieces). 

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