Tracking Down the Earliest BATMAN Art in Existence 0

[ESeffinga]

Actually to me, it makes more sense that someone gave away a random page to who knows... and for an unknown reason, thinking it as inconsequential as it would have been at the time.

In fact the mere use of the word “rescue”  shows the hindsight 20-20 viewpoint at play here. At the time these were created and laying around, no one would have ever conceived that the character would be a household name. Or frankly that the page had any value whatsoever beyond the paycheck it brought the artist when the book was published.

Beyond that, we all know it was childish drivel, and most of this stuff was more clutter, to be used as cutting boards, to wipe up coffee spills, etc. after publication.  Given that it was cheap entertainment, the drawing on this page is a byproduct of process, not unlike the way art collectors mostly used to see color guides 20 years ago. A novelty to have but essentially without value of any substantive nature.

The Joker? Who’s that? At that time, nobody at all. No more than any of the thousands of now long forgotten comic characters of the past. 

Looking at it through the lens of the time of its creation, to me it’s as likely (maybe more likely) that someone looked in a dumpster one day and saw a half dozen (or even a whole dumpster full) of discarded artboards any time within a couple decades of the piece’s creation, and took this one out because it didn’t have pizza stains or other garbage smeared on it. They certainly didn’t dive in looking for that coveted first appearance page. 

Does the whole story exist? Nothing is impossible. There are little art discoveries in long forgotten places all the time.  But the last several decades have shown that it’s not likely, or a lot more of this material would be out there, given what the art commands now.

 

 

[Collectr]

Just found out the cover to detective comics #28 OA exists also. 

No Batman, though.

 

[pemart1966]

5 hours ago, Collectr said:

Just found out the cover to detective comics #28 OA exists also. 

No Batman, though.

 

The existence of this cover has been common knowledge for a while.  But to me it begs the question why did this get saved and not the covers 27 or 29 for example.  27 and 29 may exist but that's probably not likely.

Edited May 22, 2018 by pemart1966

[BCarter27]

Just now, pemart1966 said:

why did this get saved and not the covers 27 or 29 for example

Because Fred Guardineer didn't do those.

Has anyone ever been in touch with the Bob Kane estate?

[dem1138]

1 minute ago, pemart1966 said:

The existence of this cover has been common knowledge for a while.  But to me it begs the question why did this get saved and not the covers 27 or 29 for example.  27 and 29 may exist but that's probably not likely.

Because Guardineer was the cover artist to this issue and a lot of his art survived for whatever reason. An entire collection came out of, I believe, the midwest many years ago and this was one of the pieces that was in it.  I think this is referenced in another thread.  

[JadeGiant]

Pages like this that survived are by far the exception scenario IMHO. Per the post above, there was absolutely no value to them for the most part so them being saved is probably due to an artist keeping their work or by pure luck. I don’t think there are vast hoards of early art out there but there are certainly pieces tucked away somewhere – either by a collector or in a stack of old magazines, paperwork in a trunk in an attic, etc. that is not even know by the owner to exist.

[comiconxion]

2 hours ago, dem1138 said:

Because Guardineer was the cover artist to this issue and a lot of his art survived for whatever reason. An entire collection came out of, I believe, the midwest many years ago and this was one of the pieces that was in it.  I think this is referenced in another thread.  

Yes, along with the Detective Comics #28 and 30, Guardineer had kept a few other early DC Golden Age & pre-hero DC covers.  From what I remember, there was Action Comics #9, 15 (the earliest known Superman cover), and 16, More Fun Comics #47, and Adventure Comics #34 and 45.  There may have been more as well, but I believe they all came out around the same time.  I vaguely remember seeing a CBG ad offering some of them in auction many years ago.  Any others that I forgot?

Edited May 22, 2018 by comiconxion

[pemart1966]

5 hours ago, BCarter27 said:

Because Fred Guardineer didn't do those.

Has anyone ever been in touch with the Bob Kane estate?

If the art was being disposed of willy nilly it wouldn't have precluded Guardineer from picking up other pages /covers - or Jerry Robinson for that matter.

Bob Kane, his personality being what people say it was - I'm surprised that he didn't save a ton of it...

Edited May 22, 2018 by pemart1966

[BCarter27]

1 hour ago, pemart1966 said:

Bob Kane, his personality being what people say it was - I'm surprised that he didn't save a ton of it...

Exactly. It wouldn't shock me if the estate still had some stuff.

[Crowzilla]

4 hours ago, comiconxion said:

Yes, along with the Detective Comics #28 and 30, Guardineer had kept a few other early DC Golden Age & pre-hero DC covers.  From what I remember, there was Action Comics #9, 15 (the earliest known Superman cover), and 16, More Fun Comics #47, and Adventure Comics #34 and 45.  There may have been more as well, but I believe they all came out around the same time.  I vaguely remember seeing a CBG ad offering some of them in auction many years ago.  Any others that I forgot?

If I remember correctly Guardineer came to an early NY con and sold those covers himself.

As for Kane having any covers, if he had any idea what they would eventually sell for, I believe he would have (ghost) recreated them the same way he did his Batman prototype drawing. He was convinced that large original art and paintings were what would have value, so he spent much more time having others create those so that he could sign his name to them.

There has never even been any rumors of other Batman #1 pages out there, and the page that is known was known for a while before being sold. Others would know far better than me, but I don't think there has been any "surprise" GA art (of significance) discovered in many years. The big pieces that are out there have been known for a long time, they have just been held in collections (artists or otherwise).

[pemart1966]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:37 PM, Collectr said:

It seems strange that no artwork depicting Batman has actually survived, making the Joker the earliest continuing character in the franchise to appear in Original art.

I did some searching and found a picture of what I believe to the earliest depiction of Batman in original art. Published in September 1940, it was used for publication overseas in France during German occupation. Not strictly speaking Batman, but it's a tracing of a couple of pages from detective comics #30.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Looks like stats with french dialogue to me. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by pemart1966
Original poster requested that image be removed

[Pickie]

3 hours ago, Collectr said:

Any range of value in case I ever see this up for auction somewhere? 

Primarly it's a French matter. With an international auction house the result should be a bit higher than the amount of €334.00 from May 6th:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Planche-originale-de-BATMAN-Le-Justicier-paru-en-1940-dans-LES-GRANDES-AVENTURES/132602669030?hash=item1edfbc27e6:g:EbEAAOSwUMBa5ayk

Seller's info: "Certaines sources indiquent que le dessin serait de René Brantonne." ("Certain sources indicate that the artwork might be by René Brantonne.")

Seller's additional info: "Le dessin pourrait aussi être de Robba (Robert Bagage)." (The artwork could also be by Robba (Robert Bagage).")

 

[Rick2you2]

On 5/22/2018 at 5:03 AM, ESeffinga said:

Does the whole story exist? Nothing is impossible. There are little art discoveries in long forgotten places all the time.  But the last several decades have shown that it’s not likely, or a lot more of this material would be out there, given what the art commands now.

 

I'm not sure about this. I don't think there are mountains of it, mind you, but more than it appears.

Despite what some of this OA commands, a lot of people really do not know it has value. And when I have mentioned before (to professionals who run estate or garage sales, for example), they are more likely to ask about comic strip art than books. 

[The Voord]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 9:17 PM, pemart1966 said:

If the art was being disposed of willy nilly it wouldn't have precluded Guardineer from picking up other pages /covers - or Jerry Robinson for that matter.

Bob Kane, his personality being what people say it was - I'm surprised that he didn't save a ton of it...

As Kane was known to farm out a lot his drawing chores to 'ghost' artists, maybe there wasn't a great deal of his own work to possibly reclaim? 

[pemart1966]

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

As Kane was known to farm out a lot his drawing chores to 'ghost' artists, maybe there wasn't a great deal of his own work to possibly reclaim? 

Certainly the earliest stuff was all Bob.  Even as he hired assistants, at first they were doing backgrounds; perhaps a bit of inking - generally minor stuff.  So for the first little while it was all Bob and then mostly Bob...

Regardless of who was doing what and when, I still make the same statement.

Edited June 2, 2018 by pemart1966

[The Voord]

13 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

Certainly the earliest stuff was all Bob.  Even as he hired assistants, at first they were doing backgrounds; perhaps a bit of inking - generally minor stuff.  So for the first little while it was all Bob and then mostly Bob...

Regardless of who was doing what and when, I still make the same statement.

Different take (scroll down to the bit about 'Bob Kane's Bat-Gosts'):

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/391/

 

[Will_K]

3 hours ago, The Voord said:

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/391/

Fascinating.  On CAF, I credit the characters' creators.  For Batman, I put Bill Finger's name before Bob Kane's.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Will_K

[bluechip]

On 5/22/2018 at 2:19 PM, BCarter27 said:

Exactly. It wouldn't shock me if the estate still had some stuff.

As I understand it, Kane had saved much of the art but it was burned by his wife in a rage after she found out about the latest of his numerous affairs.

[MagnusX]

 

2 hours ago, bluechip said:

As I understand it, Kane had saved much of the art but it was burned by his wife in a rage after she found out about the latest of his numerous affairs.

'Hell has no fury like a woman scorned'

Edited June 3, 2018 by MagnusX

[artdealer]

Whoever this "Robby Reed" might be, He is wrong on one topic. 

Mort Meskin never drew a Batman story. I don't know where he got his information. 
I spoke with Meskin back in the late 70s. I asked if he ever drew a Batman story as I thought I remembered a story with his credits. 
Mort said he never drew a Batman story, nor did he remember helping Jerry Robinson with inks. And a Meskin Batman story would have been memorable.

Also, I don't believe that Bob Kane had as much Batman art as someone posted. There is no record of him saying so, and if so, it would have been on the market by now.

What Kane did do is take a bunch of Carmine's Batman and Detective cover originals, cut them up and made a collage for display when he had art shows.

Mitch I.