How much does slabbing add to actual value of non keys?
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1 hour ago, revat said:

even for most keys (that aren't mega), the slab-worthiness still a function of grade too.

I always assumed the slabs really came into effect when they went beyond the price guide categories for high grade (so more than 9.2).

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I see a lot of books for sale that I would classify and grading mistakes.  The submitters didn’t know how to grade and got far lower grades than they expected, and or restoration they didn’t expect, or they didn’t understand what a book would be worth graded.

Rule of thumb for me is the book should be worth $200 or more after grading to justify the expense of grading, pressing and shipping both ways.

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On 2/19/2020 at 1:26 PM, thehumantorch said:

I see a lot of books for sale that I would classify and grading mistakes.  The submitters didn’t know how to grade and got far lower grades than they expected, and or restoration they didn’t expect, or they didn’t understand what a book would be worth graded.

Rule of thumb for me is the book should be worth $200 or more after grading to justify the expense of grading, pressing and shipping both ways.

I have a similar opinion to this. To consider slabbing a book, I would like the book to be worth at least $150 in the grade I expect and have 20% margin built in to the after graded value.

This margin considers all associated costs with the book including grading / pressing / acquisition / shipping costs / etc.

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slabbing monetizies the comic to where everyone pretty much agrees the slab value is accurate.  Nothing more really. 

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Slabbing comics is supported by anonymous mothers groups everywhere who don't want children reading comics.  It just might be the case that CGC is subsidized by one of those mothers groups, working in secret of course. 

Edited by Glassman10

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1 hour ago, Planet Terror said:
4 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

Slabbing comics is supported by anonymous mothers groups everywhere who don't want children reading comics.  It just might be the case that CGC is subsidized by one of those mothers groups, working in secret of course. 

I heard this goes all the way back to Wertham :whistle:

If the anonymous mothers group was true, then CGC would refuse to slab Zenescope books, since no one has ever opened one anyway. :whistle:

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I'm totally confused...

If a book retails at $10

And slab cost $25

And slab book value is $25 after slabbed

and stab cost 3-5

It seems like a whole lot of wasted time and money

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13 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

Slab happy is what has happened.  Too many, far too many, who gives a 'care' books are being sent in, getting slabbed, and people then think they should add some sort of premium to their asking price.  Is an IH #181 worth slabbing....YES.   Is a Fantastic Four #92 in about a 4.0 to 5.0 worth slabbing.....not really.   It's just not what needs to be done, but people continue to send books in.   CGC is busy enough.  Much like Social Security Disability, there is no need to back log it, with your nonsense. 

Gripe about it all youd like, reality is that this mentality has basically given CGC a licence to print money

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8 minutes ago, BaronSamedi said:

I'm totally confused...

If a book retails at $10

And slab cost $25

And slab book value is $25 after slabbed

and stab cost 3-5

It seems like a whole lot of wasted time and money

I see it like this. You have the old time collectors who have very pricey books and you have the new time collectors who want very pricey books.

Its akin to trading stocks and bonds. Then moderns come in as EFTs. 

Then you have what I call the mentally hilarious, who only see a number and a case. 

All these factor into "worth"

I completely agree with humantorch on that assessment. 

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9 minutes ago, BaronSamedi said:

I'm totally confused...

If a book retails at $10

And slab cost $25

And slab book value is $25 after slabbed

and stab cost 3-5

It seems like a whole lot of wasted time and money

Those who submit books to CGC are either experienced or not.

If they're inexperienced, they may realize (too late) that the book wasn't as good as they thought.

If they're experienced, they may be willing to lose $10 on the slab in your example if they gain $50 on a different slab from the same set of books they sent to CGC.  They probably hoped all their books would be +$50 books, but a few probably won't be, so there could be a mix of -$10 slabs with +$50 slabs and they keep on going because it's still a good deal overall.

I'd bet the second scenario (experienced submitters) happens a lot, since there's no reason for the first scenario (inexperienced submitters) to repeat the mistake.  In the second situation, it's not a net mistake, just a "loser" in a batch of mostly "winners".

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3 minutes ago, IkewithMike said:

Gripe about it all youd like, reality is that this mentality has basically given CGC a licence to print money

Agreed.

 

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I'm very reluctant to put a book in plastic (grade) for a few reasons.

I like to read the books and I noticed a massive difference in value between a 9.6 and a 9.8 which would cost people hundreds if not thousands of dollars and like @IkewithMike said it gives CGC and other grading companies a license to print money. If a book has no economic value then the only reason to have it graded is a sentimental one, I'm sure the cost of entry into the show is $$$ but if you go does that mean you wasted your money? For most collectors as kids, I imagine the initial desire to get into the hobby was a nostaglic one and not a financial one.

Edited by BaronSamedi

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13 minutes ago, BaronSamedi said:
17 minutes ago, IkewithMike said:

Gripe about it all youd like, reality is that this mentality has basically given CGC a licence to print money

Agreed.

It's not exactly a license to print money if CGC isn't also the one spending that extra money.  CGC charges the same price whatever the grade is, so the differences of thousands of dollars for a 9.6 or a 9.8 would be important for the seller but CGC is the grader who got $X to grade the book regardless of the grade.  CGC is a bit like a teacher who grades papers, it's just a salary not a commission on every A+ student.

PGX (the other grading company) was documented to allow people access to their slabbing equipment and they put their own grades (or ignored restoration) on books they later sold.  That's printing money.  It's one of the reasons PGX isn't trusted by those who know the history.

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13 minutes ago, valiantman said:

It's not exactly a license to print money if CGC isn't also the one spending that extra money.  CGC charges the same price whatever the grade is, so the differences of thousands of dollars for a 9.6 or a 9.8 would be important for the seller but CGC is the grader who got $X to grade the book regardless of the grade.  CGC is a bit like a teacher who grades papers, it's just a salary not a commission on every A+ student.

PGX (the other grading company) was documented to allow people access to their slabbing equipment and they put their own grades (or ignored restoration) on books they later sold.  That's printing money.  It's one of the reasons PGX isn't trusted by those who know the history.

Good point.

I've noticed at my local comic shop that they have suddenly turned into professional graders. So they are selling raw books at the same value as a slabbed book would be in that grade. So i guess you pay to have your books slabbed and the only loser who comes out at the end of it is the buyer as CGC makes money, the shop makes money and the buyer loses out the price of the slab.

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5 minutes ago, BaronSamedi said:
21 minutes ago, valiantman said:

It's not exactly a license to print money if CGC isn't also the one spending that extra money.  CGC charges the same price whatever the grade is, so the differences of thousands of dollars for a 9.6 or a 9.8 would be important for the seller but CGC is the grader who got $X to grade the book regardless of the grade.  CGC is a bit like a teacher who grades papers, it's just a salary not a commission on every A+ student.

PGX (the other grading company) was documented to allow people access to their slabbing equipment and they put their own grades (or ignored restoration) on books they later sold.  That's printing money.  It's one of the reasons PGX isn't trusted by those who know the history.

Good point.

I've noticed at my local comic shop that they have suddenly turned into professional graders. So they are selling raw books at the same value as a slabbed book would be in that grade. So i guess you pay to have your books slabbed and the only loser who comes out at the end of it is the buyer as CGC makes money, the shop makes money and the buyer loses out the price of the slab.

Well, the buyer always has the option of buying a raw copy at any price they can find... but the condition won't be guaranteed for the next person who might own it. 

A reputable dealer can sell to you with their grade on it, but when you sell it, are you also a reputable dealer?  If it was me, I'd be buying from a reputable dealer and then selling I would just be "some guy trying to sell a book" and I'd be losing out even without any slab involved.

If the buyer of a raw book never wants to sell, then there's no reason to deal with slabs at all.  With only 5,000,000 CGC slabs, there are billions of raw books still available.

CGC adds confidence for the buyer that the grade is probably accurate.  If you're the buyer and you don't need that confidence in the condition, then don't buy CGC.

If you're the seller and you think the next buyer doesn't want any confidence in the condition, then you might be fooling yourself if the book has any significant value to it.  No one cares if it's a $2 book, but if it's $200 or $2,000, CGC might make your buyer more willing to pay $200 or $2,000 than "I-graded-it-myself-so-hand-over-the-Benjamins" ever would. :grin:

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1 minute ago, valiantman said:

Well, the buyer always has the option of buying a raw copy at any price they can find... but the condition won't be guaranteed for the next person who might own it. 

A reputable dealer can sell to you with their grade on it, but when you sell it, are you also a reputable dealer?  If it was me, I'd be buying from a reputable dealer and then selling I would just be "some guy trying to sell a book" and I'd be losing out even without any slab involved.

If the buyer of a raw book never wants to sell, then there's no reason to deal with slabs at all.  With only 5,000,000 CGC slabs, there are billions of raw books still available.

CGC adds confidence for the buyer that the grade is probably accurate.  If you're the buyer and you don't need that confidence in the condition, then don't buy CGC.

If you're the seller and you think the next buyer doesn't want any confidence in the condition, then you might be fooling yourself if the book has any significant value to it.  No one cares if it's a $2 book, but if it's $200 or $2,000, CGC might make your buyer more willing to pay $200 or $2,000 than "I-graded-it-myself-so-hand-over-the-Benjamins" ever would. :grin:

Definetly

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5 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Well, the buyer always has the option of buying a raw copy at any price they can find... but the condition won't be guaranteed for the next person who might own it. 

A reputable dealer can sell to you with their grade on it, but when you sell it, are you also a reputable dealer?  If it was me, I'd be buying from a reputable dealer and then selling I would just be "some guy trying to sell a book" and I'd be losing out even without any slab involved.

If the buyer of a raw book never wants to sell, then there's no reason to deal with slabs at all.  With only 5,000,000 CGC slabs, there are billions of raw books still available.

CGC adds confidence for the buyer that the grade is probably accurate.  If you're the buyer and you don't need that confidence in the condition, then don't buy CGC.

If you're the seller and you think the next buyer doesn't want any confidence in the condition, then you might be fooling yourself if the book has any significant value to it.  No one cares if it's a $2 book, but if it's $200 or $2,000, CGC might make your buyer more willing to pay $200 or $2,000 than "I-graded-it-myself-so-hand-over-the-Benjamins" ever would. :grin:

Very well said, thank you

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34 minutes ago, BaronSamedi said:

I've noticed at my local comic shop that they have suddenly turned into professional graders. So they are selling raw books at the same value as a slabbed book would be in that grade.

That's essentially a crooked seller.  If they're asking exactly what the slabbed value would be, then not only are they keeping the slabbing costs for themselves, they don't even have to prove the grade is accurate or let you do the same when you try to sell it later.

Assume a dealer has a raw book they bought for $10.

Selling as a raw book = $50, (they bought it for $10, so their profit is $40)... and you need to resell it raw someday for $50 to break even.

Selling a slabbed copy = $100 ($10 plus $35 slabbing/shipping costs, so their profit is $55)... and you will need to resell a CGC slabbed copy for $100 to break even.

Selling a raw book as the slabbed price, their profit is $90... and you will need to resell a $50 raw book for $100 to break even -or- you'll have to pay the $35 slabbing/shipping costs and resell a $100 slabbed book for $135 to break even.

(This kind of seller probably has a handful of reasons he can claim he's not a crook, but he also has $50 extra dollars from your wallet in his hand, so he's still a crook.)

Edited by valiantman
Edited because sellers won't ever admit they're crooks, but some really are.

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