Newsstand bait-and-switch, so it begins... 0

[valiantman]

So I recently purchased a 2011 Batman #1 CGC 9.6 on the 'bay because the photo in the auction is clearly for a newsstand edition.  The auction mentions that there are multiple CGC certification numbers, but the photo is a newsstand so I take a chance knowing that the buyer guarantee will be in effect.

The book arrives, and of course, it's a direct edition.  The seller claims there's no difference because CGC didn't make any distinction.  Meanwhile, there are cheaper copies of the direct edition from other sellers on the 'bay, so there's no reason for anyone to pay the asking price EXCEPT that they're hoping for the newsstand edition.  

Bait-and-switch for newsstand... I guess it was inevitable. 

[Avi]

Didnt know there was a "newsstand" edition for the 2011. Do you have a picture of what it should look like?

[sirwesker]

You can't trust anyone on ebay. You can get great deals, but you will inevitably get screwed too.

[newshane]

55 minutes ago, valiantman said:

The auction mentions that there are multiple CGC certification numbers, but the photo is a newsstand so I take a chance knowing that the buyer guarantee will be in effect.

 

Did you not confirm with the seller beforehand? If not, looks like that's part of the chance you took.

56 minutes ago, valiantman said:

it's a direct edition.  The seller claims there's no difference because CGC didn't make any distinction. 

In a way, he's correct.The CGC only makes a distinction of the newsstand edition is truly different. For example. CGC makes a distinction for Spawn 9 newsstand because it's made of newsprint paper, unlike the direct edition. Other newsstand books may get the distinction because they were released without special inserts, cards, coupons, foil, etc.

I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted, but I'm puzzled as to why you didn't contact the seller first. I'm not sure it's "bait and switch" since you didn't confirm with the seller. That being said, the seller IS also at fault for not being absolutely clear about what you were getting...even though he/she did say that multiple copies with multiple certs would be involved in the auction.

A little bit of clarity and inquiry would have went a long way.

 

[valiantman]

45 minutes ago, Avi said:

Didnt know there was a "newsstand" edition for the 2011. Do you have a picture of what it should look like?

 

[valiantman]

3 minutes ago, newshane said:

In a way, he's correct.The CGC only makes a distinction of the newsstand edition is truly different. For example. CGC makes a distinction for Spawn 9 newsstand because it's made of newsprint paper, unlike the direct edition. Other newsstand books may get the distinction because they were released without special inserts, cards, coupons, foil, etc.

CGC is wrong, and they will eventually get it right.

Newsstands are different products, if for no other reason, because they have different UPC.  The whole world (literally) relies on the Universal Product Code.  Two different UPCs are two different products, even if everything about them is otherwise identical. 

But it goes further, if they were interchangeable and completely equal, there wouldn't be any difference in their marketing, distribution, and retail processes.  Newsstands are different in every one of those respects, too.

CGC is behind, as are many collectors and retailers, but they'll eventually catch up.  The purposeful use of the newsstand photo by a dealer who has a stack of direct editions is bait-and-switch.  Thankfully, "item doesn't match photo" is a valid return.

[newshane]

1 minute ago, valiantman said:

CGC is wrong, and they will eventually get it right.

Newsstands are different products, if for no other reason, because they have different UPC.  The whole world (literally) relies on the Universal Product Code.  Two different UPCs are two different products, even if everything about them is otherwise identical. 

But it goes further, if they were interchangeable and completely equal, there wouldn't be any difference in their marketing, distribution, and retail processes.  Newsstands are different in every one of those respects, too.

CGC is behind, as are many collectors and retailers, but they'll eventually catch up.  The purposeful use of the newsstand photo by a dealer who has a stack of direct editions is bait-and-switch.  Thankfully, "item doesn't match photo" is a valid return.

I'm still baffled at the lure of "newsstand" editions, and I certainly don't understand the huge markups that some people are willing to pay. In the end, however, that's an irrelevant opinion. To each their own!

I am glad you will be able to get your money back, but I'm still not certain why you didn't simply ask first. Seems like it would have saved you both a lot of trouble. Perhaps you were hoping for a deal and didn't get what you wanted? Not that there is anything wrong with that, just sayin'.

[Coolio McCool]

It will be very hard for CGC to switch at this point, there are already millions of books out there with no distinction. If you want to start a new grading company, you might have a competitive advantage with the newsstand crowd by considering them to be separate, but many people don't care and will never care (and CGC helps reinforce their beliefs). Personally I'd rather have a picture of Spiderman in the corner of my NM87 book, not some barcode.

Regarding the Ebay deal, I agree you didn't get what you expected, you should ask for a return and escalate if the seller refuses. Ebay pretty much always sides with buyers and you have a legit case.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Coolio McCool

[valiantman]

1 minute ago, newshane said:

I'm still baffled at the lure of "newsstand" editions, and I certainly don't understand the huge markups that some people are willing to pay. In the end, however, that's an irrelevant opinion. To each their own!

I am glad you will be able to get your money back, but I'm still not certain why you didn't simply ask first. Seems like it would have saved you both a lot of trouble. Perhaps you were hoping for a deal and didn't get what you wanted? Not that there is anything wrong with that, just sayin'.

Of course I was hoping for a deal, but I wasn't risking anything because of the return policy. 

I still feel justified in complaining because the photo being used in the auction is not the same book that the seller is offering.  There are multiple copies of the book on the 'bay for prices of $120 or $125 with free shipping.  The seller has a photo of a newsstand and an asking price of $199.  I offered $150 and expected a newsstand like the photo.  If I wanted a direct edition, I would have paid $120 and had one.  The seller knows what he's doing, and he's hoping the buyer doesn't know the difference.  He didn't catch me like he had hoped, but I guarantee he'll keep using the bait.

[valiantman]

3 minutes ago, Coolio McCool said:

Personally I'd rather have a picture of Spiderman in the corner of my NM87 book, not some barcode.

I get the aesthetic aspect, but the barcode indicates that a book probably survived the 7-11 slurpee hands crowd.  The Spider-man in the corner indicates that a book probably got handled carefully in the comic store, purchased carefully, bagged and boarded, and stored correctly.  There's a reason Mickey Mantle baseball cards have value... he was put in the spoke of bicycle tires.  Newsstands are our spokes-of-the-bicycle-tire comics.  Direct editions are our treat-it-like-an-heirloom comics.  For the same price, I'll take the unlikely survivor over the pampered draft-dodger every time. 

[newshane]

14 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Of course I was hoping for a deal, but I wasn't risking anything because of the return policy. 

I still feel justified in complaining because the photo being used in the auction is not the same book that the seller is offering.  There are multiple copies of the book on the 'bay for prices of $120 or $125 with free shipping.  The seller has a photo of a newsstand and an asking price of $199.  I offered $150 and expected a newsstand like the photo.  If I wanted a direct edition, I would have paid $120 and had one.  The seller knows what he's doing, and he's hoping the buyer doesn't know the difference.  He didn't catch me like he had hoped, but I guarantee he'll keep using the bait.

There is nothing wrong with what you did. I want to say that up front.

But the way I see it, you were both playing a bit of a game. You didn't ask for clarity because you were hoping to snag a deal. He wasn't being clear because he was hoping to get away with it. In the end, it was a harmless gamble for you. He won't get stung too hard, other than the pain of dealing with a return.

Like you said, there is a very good chance the seller knows exactly what he was going and will continue to use the bait.

I understand how this can be frustrating for someone who collects newsstands.

[newshane]

13 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I get the aesthetic aspect, but the barcode indicates that a book probably survived the 7-11 slurpee hands crowd. 

I get your point, but I doubt any 9.8 newsstand editions actually survived the spinner racks unscathed.

In fact, the book probably tumbled in grade the moment the uncaring clerk at Krogers took it out of the box...then tumbled again the moment it hit the spinner rack...then again after kids thumbed through the pages with fingers freshly greased from the consumption of an order of McNuggets...then maybe again when the book was taken off the shelf...etc.

Those books probably stayed in the box, no?

And I agree with another poster - I'm just not a big fan of the barcode look. It won't stop me from buying a book, but I wouldn't go chasing after one either.

[darkstar]

44 minutes ago, newshane said:

I'm still baffled at the lure of "newsstand" editions, and I certainly don't understand the huge markups that some people are willing to pay. In the end, however, that's an irrelevant opinion. To each their own!

I am glad you will be able to get your money back, but I'm still not certain why you didn't simply ask first. Seems like it would have saved you both a lot of trouble. Perhaps you were hoping for a deal and didn't get what you wanted? Not that there is anything wrong with that, just sayin'.

You're on a collecting forum and baffled that anal-retentive collectors will pay a premium for the rarer version of something despite the difference being extremely minute? 

Take a week and go hunting for near mint copies of newsstand editions from 2013 Marvel series. Report back with your results. 

Also inquiring with a seller about a product they are selling regarding a difference that they haven't explicitly mentioned in the listing is a good way to get them to research why you are asking about such a thing which inevitably leads to them finding out the variant they have is worth more than the traditional version.

It is the seller's responsibility to include pictures on their listing that do not mislead the buyer. If you want to use the same photo for a product when you have more than 1 in stock that is fine, but only if your stock is entirely the same. Newsstand and direct versions are not the same, it doesn't matter if CGC makes that distinction or not. 

[valiantman]

44 minutes ago, newshane said:

I get your point, but I doubt any 9.8 newsstand editions actually survived the spinner racks unscathed.

In fact, the book probably tumbled in grade the moment the uncaring clerk at Krogers took it out of the box...then tumbled again the moment it hit the spinner rack...then again after kids thumbed through the pages with fingers freshly greased from the consumption of an order of McNuggets...then maybe again when the book was taken off the shelf...etc.

Those books probably stayed in the box, no?

And I agree with another poster - I'm just not a big fan of the barcode look. It won't stop me from buying a book, but I wouldn't go chasing after one either.

We're just talking "generalities" since it's always possible that a greasy-fingered kid wandered into a comic shop and then took a direct edition home and basically destroyed it, and it's always possible that a collector purposefully went to find beautiful newsstand copies in the spinner racks and then cared for them for decades... but generally, those stories are reversed.

One thing that is interesting (and even aesthetic) about collecting newsstands (that I didn't expect) is that newsstand bar codes are very consistent through time, while the direct editions have barcodes-with-slashes, artwork, different artwork, words, logos, etc., so the newsstands actually give a collection a "these belong together" aesthetic for that barcode box, while the direct editions look like a hodge-podge of unrelated things.

Edited June 6, 2018 by valiantman

[newshane]

29 minutes ago, darkstar said:

You're on a collecting forum and baffled that anal-retentive collectors will pay a premium for the rarer version of something despite the difference being extremely minute? 

 

I'm not baffled that there are collectors who will pay the premium. All I said was that I didn't personally understand it, and that it holds no allure for me. Besides, I admitted the irrelevance of the statement.

31 minutes ago, darkstar said:

Also inquiring with a seller about a product they are selling regarding a difference that they haven't explicitly mentioned in the listing is a good way to get them to research why you are asking about such a thing which inevitably leads to them finding out the variant they have is worth more than the traditional version.

 

That was the exact point I was trying to make. The buyer didn't ask for clarification because he was hoping to get a deal. Nothing wrong with that.

[valiantman]

2 hours ago, newshane said:

That was the exact point I was trying to make. The buyer didn't ask for clarification because he was hoping to get a deal. Nothing wrong with that.

Right, the seller used a photo for the newsstand book and had an asking price 66% higher than others available as direct editions.  I offered the seller a newsstand premium of 25% above the direct edition prices already available to me.  The seller sent me a direct edition.  He baited me with the newsstand photo and higher asking price, then switched it out for a direct edition where he got a premium over competing sellers.

I'll readily admit that I was hoping to get a deal, but I think it's important to note that the deal I was hoping to get was still to pay a 25% premium to the seller.  He couldn't get screwed either way.  He could only screw me... which he did.  Thankfully, I was wearing the buyer protection at the time.

[Martin Sinescu]

5 hours ago, Coolio McCool said:

It will be very hard for CGC to switch at this point, there are already millions of books out there with no distinction.

The thing about this is, the longer they resist, the more that are going out with no distinction. Meanwhile, newsstands seem to be gaining more awareness in the marketplace. They could've sucked it up a few years ago and we'd already be a few years into having a more accurate census, but oh well. Their competition does actually acknowledge them already, but I'm not that hellbent on having it on the label that I would consider switching over anyway. Honestly, it's probably more to a newsstand collector's advantage that they don't distinguish it. I think the census numbers would be pretty shocking if they differentiated.

Valiantman, I remember a few years ago someone had a listing of 5 Batman 2011's, all 9.8's, and the main photo was a newsstand copy (the other 4 were lowly directs). The price was a little bit above FMV, but I considered pulling the trigger to get that specific one. A few hours of thinking and I checked the listing again: One had sold. I figured that was the NS and only the directs were left. 

[Illustrious]

I've had the same thing happen, I purchased a copper-age 9.8 newsstand that was shown in the auction photos, and I got a direct edition instead. Luckily, the seller did have the original newsstand copy pictured and I sent back the direct edition and exchanged them with no problems. Now I message a seller directly and confirm it before I buy if they don't mention the UPC code at all in the item description/title.

[chasehasadog82]

I may have purchased that newsstand...

Earlier in the year I purchased a Batman #1 9.6 newsstand based on the picture. I did not however read the description very thoroughly. A few hours later after payment I revisited the listing and saw where they mentioned multiple CGC #’s. I immediately messaged the seller and was told that I’d be recieving the CGC # pictured. Regardless, it’s bad business in terms of graded comics.

Edited June 7, 2018 by chasehasadog82

[RockMyAmadeus]

11 hours ago, sirwesker said:

You can't trust anyone on ebay. You can get great deals, but you will inevitably get screwed too.

No. There are plenty of trustworthy sellers on eBay. You just have to find them and stick with them.