Batman 50 variants 2 2

[Jackhartmann]

On 6/7/2018 at 10:19 PM, williamblood said:

Middleton's Batman 50

who is selling that?

 

[delt569]

ssalesfish comics

[fastballspecial]

4 hours ago, kimik said:

You are not looking over any ledge. Buy the variants you like at the release price and enjoy them. If you buy them for a higher price on the secondary market, do not expect to sell the for a profit but enjoy them nonetheless.

FWIW, I am fine with the artists and stores cashing in on their own exclusives. Stores can use the additional revenues streams, and outside of superstar artists, the creative talent is not raking it from regular book sales.

Yes and no. I applaud Campbell for building a better mousetrap. At the same time it sucks that artists like him wont do a book anymore.

 

[fastballspecial]

3 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

4 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I have no intention of buying to flip or speculate, all books are for the sole intent of having in my personal collection.  What ledge am I looking over?

And that is a good thing, and you are definitely in the minority.   The day after these things are released and start flooding ebay with big mark ups, that is the real problem, and it is that opportunistic buyer/seller relationship that is not good for the hobby.   

I was at a Con 2 years ago, and some vendor was trying to show me an Iron Man RiRi variant.  I had ZERO interest.  When I saw the price I kind of chuckled.  He was in dismay, and said "Why aren't you interested in this book?!", I told him about my general disdain for variants, lack of care for the character, and the hype will pass.   I checked on ebay for fun a few months after that (kind of a study), and found the same comic in the same CGC grade being offered for 75% less than his asking price.   There are boxes of past variants at my LCS in which he is trying to get anywhere from $5 to cover price for those now.   

This all reeks of the shenanigans that went on in the 1990's.   

It wouldn't bother me as much if it was just comic book collectors doing this.

It isn't us. Its individuals from other hobbies and honestly people that never have read comics. I don't mind the cover art fans I think its that a legit market. 

The speculation market is what's killing the hobby in general. Those that are new to the hobby don't see it. They have nothing to compare it too.
I could go on, but I don't want to derail this topic anymore.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 6/9/2018 at 5:20 AM, TYPE-R said:

While I'ill agree that the publishers have gone a little variant crazy lately, if it’s making them and stores money I can’t fault them for it.

Sure you can....it's choosing to go for the quick, short-sighted buck, while destroying yourself long term.

It's why Valiant Comics went under. 

It's why Marvel came within a single judgment of ceasing publication in late 1997.

It's why Acclaim failed.

The only answer to long term solvency is to put out a quality product, month in and month out, that relies on reaching a broad based audience that appreciates the work on its own merits...not selling the exact same product, with just a small difference, 50 times to the same person.

We may very well be watching the death throes of the print comics industry.

Edited June 12, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[Mercury Man]

It's like someone said (maybe another Topic), we are basically selling covers now, the stuff in the middle is insignificant for many.  Encapsulate it without ever even reading it.   

Just buy/make a print and stick it in a picture frame.  It will be cheaper and easier. 

[williamblood]

4 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

It's like someone said (maybe another Topic), we are basically selling covers now, the stuff in the middle is insignificant for many.  Encapsulate it without ever even reading it.   

Just buy/make a print and stick it in a picture frame.  It will be cheaper and easier. 

do you have any idea what framing of a litho can run, 200-300 if your not buying some from a craft store

[kimik]

55 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Sure you can....it's choosing to go for the quick, short-sighted buck, while destroying yourself long term.

It's why Valiant Comics went under. 

It's why Marvel came within a single judgment of ceasing publication in late 1997.

It's why Acclaim failed.

The only answer to long term solvency is to put out a quality product, month in and month out, that relies on reaching a broad based audience that appreciates the work on its own merits...not selling the exact same product, with just a small difference, 50 times to the same person.

We may very well be watching the death throes of the print comics industry.

Not quite correct.

Valiant was toast due to a lack of interest and quality in their books after Shooter left. I was a fanboy that dropped them all once Acclaim took over. The stories became quite unreadable after that and the artwork really sucked. The later 90s relaunch suffered from the same issues. 

Marvel's financial problems had nothing to do with variants. The company was driven into bankruptcy protection by Perelman and his vulture crew taking it public, issuing a ton of junk bonds, and making questionable acquisition after questionable acquisition, all of which failed in the end.  There is a book, Comic Wars, that tells the story. Chuck actually sums it up decently on his site (http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg38.html):

"........Ronald O. Perelman continued trying to build Marvel into a mini entertainment conglomerate. In a flurry of acquisitions during the early 1990's, Marvel purchased Fleer Trading Cards, SkyBox Trading Cards, Panini Stickers, Welsh Magazines, and Malibu Publishing. The total cost of these acquisitions (plus an ill-advised repurchase of half of the stock held by the public) ultimately pushed Marvel's bank debt to over $700 million dollars. That's more than eight times what Perelman paid for the company in 1989! At the same time as Marvel was going deeply into debt internally, Perelman convinced an army of gullible investors to purchase $900 million in zero coupon bonds, with the only collateral backing the bonds being his ownership of 60% of Marvel's stock. Because the paper trails are hard to follow, there is some debate as to how much all this financial magic ultimately netted Perelman, but Raviv speculates that he (through his holding companies) benefited to the tune of somewhere between $200-$400 million dollars."

Edited June 12, 2018 by kimik

[AnkurJ]

[RockMyAmadeus]

24 minutes ago, kimik said:

Not quite correct.

Valiant was toast due to a lack of interest and quality in their books after Shooter left. I was a fanboy that dropped them all once Acclaim took over. The stories became quite unreadable after that and the artwork really sucked. The later 90s relaunch suffered from the same issues. 

Marvel's financial problems had nothing to do with variants. The company was driven into bankruptcy protection by Perelman and his vulture crew taking it public, issuing a ton of junk bonds, and making questionable acquisition after questionable acquisition, all of which failed in the end.  There is a book, Comic Wars, that tells the story. Chuck actually sums it up decently on his site (http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg38.html):

"........Ronald O. Perelman continued trying to build Marvel into a mini entertainment conglomerate. In a flurry of acquisitions during the early 1990's, Marvel purchased Fleer Trading Cards, SkyBox Trading Cards, Panini Stickers, Welsh Magazines, and Malibu Publishing. The total cost of these acquisitions (plus an ill-advised repurchase of half of the stock held by the public) ultimately pushed Marvel's bank debt to over $700 million dollars. That's more than eight times what Perelman paid for the company in 1989! At the same time as Marvel was going deeply into debt internally, Perelman convinced an army of gullible investors to purchase $900 million in zero coupon bonds, with the only collateral backing the bonds being his ownership of 60% of Marvel's stock. Because the paper trails are hard to follow, there is some debate as to how much all this financial magic ultimately netted Perelman, but Raviv speculates that he (through his holding companies) benefited to the tune of somewhere between $200-$400 million dollars."

What I said is absolutely correct. Valiant's demise had nothing to do with Shooter's ouster...and ouster it was...but the insistence on Massarsky to print millions of copies of books that were being sold to "speculators" by the caseload. I discussed it at length with Layton over dinner very recently. There was no need to print 1.75 million copies of Turok #1....and it was only the 6TH highest selling book of 1993!

Have you ever seen the pallet of Rai and the Future Force #9 picture that is floating around the internet?

I didn't say Marvel's problems had to do with variants. Obviously, that's not even remotely true, since by 1997, there were still only a handful of variants that Marvel had ever done (less than 50 total at that point.) The problem was the same as it is now: shoving product that no one really wants, but feels they MUST BUY, onto a shrinking pool of buyers. What do you think funded Perelman's shopping spree...? He AGGRESSIVELY pushed both a flood of titles and a persistent cover price increase onto the market. That's why the price of standard comic books more than doubled from 1991 to 1997, WITHOUT the same inflationary economy that spurred the 70s price increases.

In fact...throughout the 90s, technology made comics CHEAPER to produce than they ever had been, in an adjusted-for-inflation model.

It doesn't matter if it's 50 different versions of ASM #800, or 50 different titles featuring Punisher: the net result is the same. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[Oat Willy1]

6 hours ago, BeachBum said:

Campbell's 5 cover set - 

 

I don't get the premise of this one. He hyped it as a wedding scene, but no wedding happening there

[RockMyAmadeus]

And, since we're quoting Chuck:

Quote

 His takeover of Marvel first destroyed the consumer base through relentless price increases and excessive expansion in titles,

http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg41.html

I happen to agree with Chuck, from a merely economic standpoint. Perelman's plan was to flood the shelves with product...product buyers felt very compelled to buy...to crowd out any and all other competition, while aggressively raising prices without any of the economic factors present in the 70s that forced those price increases.

Yes, the page count from the 30s to the 60s gradually decreased....but there was an entire decade (1952 to 1961) where the price of standard comics did not increase and the standard page count (32) did not decrease, and that was nearly as true from 1962 to 1969. 

In Jan 1969, the price of a standard comic was 15 cents; by Dec 1975, it was 25 cents. That's a 66% increase in price in those 6 years, at a time when the rate of inflation (just ONE factor) was 56%

In Jan 1975, the price was 25 cents; by Dec 1981 it was 60 cents (real time, not cover dates.) That's a 140% increase, with a corresponding 80% increase in the rate of inflation.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

In Jan 1991, the price of a standard comic was $1.00; by Dec 1997, it was $2.25. That's a 125% increase, with only a corresponding 20% increase in the rate of inflation.

In fact, the numbers look even more bleak, since the cover price for standard books remained $1.00 until the very end of 1991, and were $2.25 by early summer of 1997.

If there's any corresponding time period in history where the price of a standard comic book rose so rapidly as 1991 to 1997, without most of the factors that drove previous price increases, I've yet to discover it. Maybe....MAYBE....1971 (15 cents)  to 1977 (35 cents)...but, then, inflation was going bonkers.

And we're not talking "oh, well, they went to slick, high quality gloss paper, so, yeah..." That ruse was over by mid-1996, and we were back to the cheap stuff again, albeit, all printed via offset printing now.

Edited June 12, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[Second Blight]

15 hours ago, BeachBum said:

Campbell's 5 cover set - 

I think Campbell has hit rock bottom. He just doesn't care anymore.

Edited June 12, 2018 by ComicCollectorMatt

[TYPE-R]

Of the new ones I've seen that haven't been posted I like both of these.

Ale Garza

Guillem March - not sure about the cape though.

[AnkurJ]

4 hours ago, ComicCollectorMatt said:

I think Campbell has hit rock bottom. He just doesn't care anymore.

Agreed. Many of the poses are identical to his previous covers.

[ExNihilo]

I was thinking last night, I'm a little surprised Aspen hasn't tried getting in on the frenzy by releasing some "unreleased" Batman art from the archives.

[combiner1]

7 hours ago, ComicCollectorMatt said:

I think Campbell has hit rock bottom. He just doesn't care anymore.

Agreed...... He's Batman looked like it's trying too hard to have "man-boobs"

Plus, why is Black Canary there?? She's not part of the Bat-family. Where's Damien, Red Hood, or at least Alfred?? And isn't ClayFace and Harley a good guys now??

That Robin looked like Tim Drake BUT with his old uniform. Did anybody even told JSC that this is for Batman/Catwoman wedding?? It looked more like Hero vs Villain poster.

I like JSC, but this time....... PASS

[ygogolak]

3 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I was thinking last night, I'm a little surprised Aspen hasn't tried getting in on the frenzy by releasing some "unreleased" Batman art from the archives.

Got tomorrow's lottery numbers?

 

[ExNihilo]

4 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Got tomorrow's lottery numbers?

 

I better go pick up some numbers after work.

While I generally love Turner's sharp penciling, I gotta say, I love the rounded features on his Harley.  It's almost Jim Lee'esque.  I might have to go get that Turner variant of Harley Quinn #1.  But this set is an easy pass for me...unless I do win the lotto. 

[Rip]

What is this over 60 covers? I bought my 3 pack, love the Middleton. The only other one I would think about is the reg. cover and maybe one version of the Sanders. The Lee is decent also. But really if you have to have a cover I would just wait 6 months. Likely at best only 3 or 4 of these will be more than what you are paying now. And the other 60 will be discounted heavy.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Rip