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Are comics gaining more respect as a valid investment outside of the comic collecting community?
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208 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

 

The run up on comics related to movies happens in much the same way a stock runs up on favorable news.

 

BTW, this comment is not correct at all.  It's not the "news" that drives the price up in stocks but the implications of that news.  Favorable news for a public company means that future earnings are going to be higher than originally anticipated.  It's entirely money based so there is a good rationale for the increase.  Comics don't offer earnings or dividends.  You're owning an asset that merely exists.  It literally is not any different than beanie babies or pet rocks.  It's value ONLY lies in the faith that someone down the road will want to own it by paying a considerable amount of money.  I'm stating that eventually, hardly anyone will care about 99.999999% of comic books enough to pay for them, above perhaps a very nominal amount.  That day won't be tomorrow, next week or next year, but I'm confident I'll likely live to see that day.

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Even I'd have a hard time recommending comic books as an asset class, and I've been collecting since 1989.

Despite that accumulated knowledge and a disciplined approach -- and I've spent up to $2,700 per comic -- it's still difficult to eek out a profit that matches that of equities.

And I rode the Marvel movie wave that saw my books including Avengers 1, Daredevil 1, TMNT 1, X-Men 1 and esp. Strange Tales 110 (x 3) all double-triple within 4 years.

I don't see that happening again anytime soon and over the long haul I think we'll see massive reductions in 80% of the market as my generation (early 40s) -- the last who bought comics off the shelf voraciously as teens eventually eases into retirement and cashes out.

Stocks and real estate -- for example -- are far better asset classes than comics.

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3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Oh, Apple is coming out with an amazing new phone that will help you go to the bathroom? Hungry investors pour money into the company expecting it to make them money.

 

And it will make them money. Put  new I phone down on a table along side of a F.F. #52. Bring in a group of people. Don't matter how many. Give them a choice of items on the table for free. Guess which one they will pick up and run out the door with. And stocks do make people money. Apple has made me quite a bit. People don't need comics except to look at, read and enjoy. When this comic bubble pops, people will be pounding their heads off of tables wondering where to stick those comic books.

Edited by DR.X
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2 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

This is a very interesting conversation and one I've thought about from time to time when I see how the prices on some things have risen.

When I speak to people I know outside of the comic collecting world very few of them have any idea about which comics are collectible, let alone do they think of buying any for investment. These are well educated people for the most part. Every once and a while, someone has a friend or relative with a 90's comic collection they are curious about.

I love comics, but there is no way to compare them to fine art. Art has its ups and downs, but the pieces that are sought after are one of a kind.  Comics (unless you are talking about OA) are not. Even limited edition signed lithographs, are usually limited to no more than 300 pieces which is miniscule next to  comic production numbers.

Think about this, how many comic museums are there around the world? I know I've been to two and I've heard about another. One was in Rye NY and I think it moved to somewhere in Fl. It was cute, but very small. One is in Baltimore (the one I have not been to) and I went to the one in Belgium, which was little more than a store. I'm sure there are one or two others I've missed.

Art museums are all over the world.

Comics are much more easily affordable as a collectible than Fine Art, so that makes comic collecting an easier hobby for most of us, but you are in  different worlds.

I collect comics because I love them, they were part of my childhood and there are many I can buy without depriving myself of other things. However, if I had a ton of money and wanted to park it somewhere, I'd buy land or houses that I could rent out. Not that anything is a sure thing.

One thing we should think about with the more modern books (like Hulk 181) is that a lot of younger people are into comics in digital form.  Some of those younger people are even trying to convert their parents;) 

If anyone ever told me that I'd give up my stacks of (reading)  books for a Kindle, I would have thought they were crazy...but here I am 7 years later, with this one thin space saving, dust saving piece of electronics I'm totally dependent on. When I need a new book to read, I go online to the library, download it and voila! I don't ever have to carry 4 or 5 paperbacks with me on a trip again. I've long since gone from 8 bookcases to two, and those hold comic Archives.

So as many people have said before, buy comics because you love them. If you happen to sell them and make money, that's a plus, but don't be shocked if something changes and you don't. 

 

 

 

The Kindle that was the game changer. I went from digital comics stink to now digital comics are unbelievably cool. I tried a few times to go back and read comics the old way and to my astonishment I now prefer the Kindle.

Just the factors I can read these digital comics without worrying about damaging them, and storing them is a big plus.

Edited by ComicConnoisseur
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4 hours ago, FSF said:

I'm stating that eventually, hardly anyone will care about 99.999999% of comic books enough to pay for them, above perhaps a very nominal amount.  That day won't be tomorrow, next week or next year, but I'm confident I'll likely live to see that day.

I think it is already here in that most people know it's really the keys that have the real long term value like AF#15, Hulk #181,and others, similar to baseball cards were only the top rookie cards have value. I don't think many people are betting the farm that a stack of the latest $4.99 modern comics or a pile of comics from the 1990s is going to put their children thru college.

So to answer op`s question about valid investment respect, yes the Action 1 and AF #15 types will get that special respect from outsiders, while the generic comics won't.

 

 

Edited by ComicConnoisseur
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12 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I think it is already here in that most people know it's really the keys that have the real long term value like AF#15, Hulk #181,and others, similar to baseball cards were only the top rookie cards have value.

It's worse than that, though. Comic book movies have already largely redefined the word key to mean simply "first appearance." Classic storylines, artist runs, and even -- to a certain extent -- classic covers, are not as "key" as they were 8-10 years ago.

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4 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

It's worse than that, though. Comic book movies have already largely redefined the word key to mean simply "first appearance." Classic storylines, artist runs, and even -- to a certain extent -- classic covers, are not as "key" as they were 8-10 years ago.

everything is a key now. waiting for a Texas Twister movie to hit the big screen.

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1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

The Kindle that was the game changer. I went from digital comics stink to now digital comics are unbelievably cool. I tried a few times to go back and read comics the old way and to my astonishment I now prefer the Kindle.

Just the factors I can read these digital comics without worrying about damaging them, and storing them is a big plus.

As well as the storage issue, I prefer digital as a stress-free alternative to the LCS, mart and convention treadmill, and it’s a cheaper, less-complicated reading strategy, which works better for me at this stage in my life, and with my personal complications, rather than the travel and social overload of the more physical option. 

 

Edited by Ken Aldred
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27 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

As well as the storage issue, I prefer digital as a stress-free alternative to the LCS, mart and convention treadmill, and it’s a cheaper, less-complicated reading strategy, which works better for me at this stage in my life, and with my personal complications, rather than the travel and social overload of the more physical option. 

 

I think comics will be saved once again with digital comics just like the direct market/lcs saved comics in the 1980s.

The Kindle/iPads are the new newstands.

The keys will still be the keys though. They will still be sought after.

if we think about it with these big blockbuster movies shown daily on Netflix/HBO,plus with now quick access for the comics on the millions of  Kindle/iPads this new wave has exposed these heroes to their biggest audiences ever.

As these new fans who are younger get older and have their disposable income, some of them will want these keys, so yeah there will always be a market for AF #15, Hulk #181 and their like.

 

Edited by ComicConnoisseur
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22 hours ago, eddly said:

 

If you meet with a financial advisor I'm guessing they are still not recommending you to have 10% of your portfolio in graded comics...

 

the answer to your question is yes and I did actually have a financial advisor recommend that I allocate no more than 10% to art and collectibles along with precious metals. 

I actually believe that comics are a fun short term investment (3-5 yrs) or up to 10 years for blue chip keys.  I don't think they are good long term monetary investments (though they could still be good long term reading investments if you love re-reading them). as with many potentially volitIle investments you need a time horizon and exit strategy. just like some stocks. what good is the value if you cash it in too late.  

a healthy portfolio that has you churning/selling netting gains and reinvesting/laddering a portion back into comics could work well as an investment. 

the problem for a lot of us is that we are also collectors. if I were to take my own advice I should sell my collection in the next 6 months to 2 years as it has already appreciated in value over 50% or more. but I still enjoy my collection and want to keep it for another 20 years until I am ready to pass it on down to my kids, retire, or convert it to a more liquid asset. by then, however, it may be too late and many others my age may be trying to do the same thing when the current demand has died way down.

or maybe the value stays the same in the long run but having the money tied up prevented me from being able to invest in other areas with the money that would have made more wealth.

so comics as an investment should be measured not only by the potential value realized when you sell but also the opportunity cost of the investment in other areas.

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17 hours ago, FSF said:

 

I honestly have yet to meet anyone who didn't collect comics themselves that had anything other than a vague idea that comics have large values, and even that was a small minority.  Those are my experiences.  I could see your comment about the first appearance of Spider-Man et al eliciting some acknowledgement or understanding but far from "absolutely knowing".  I think you are projecting your knowledge onto your audience.

I disagree with this based on my experience of non collectors finding a stack of comics and being sure they have a gold mine.  Average Joe thinks comics are valuable-the hard part is convincing them that not all comics, including the ones they are holding, are not.

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15 minutes ago, kav said:

I disagree with this based on my experience of non collectors finding a stack of comics and being sure they have a gold mine.  Average Joe thinks comics are valuable-the hard part is convincing them that not all comics, including the ones they are holding, are not.

I could not agree with @kav more.  I think this applies to baseball cards too.  And everyone who has zero interest in either comics or cards, if they unearth them in an attic, knows enough to believe they've found a fortune in lost collectibles. 

How many times have each of us, if our collecting is known family and friends, been sent photos ... or at a cookout said "hey can you take a look at this?" and been shown a ragamuffin box of books and asked "are these valuable?"

Happened to me just last week! My sister sent me photos from a neighbor who had found some books she was sure were worth a fortune.  Oh my god it was hilarious.  Drek in horrible condition... BUT also a copy of ASM #30 and Captain Marvel from the '50... but sadly, also in lousy shape.  Anyway, same story everyone here has... is my point.  Which is why I think @kav is spot on.

 

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30 minutes ago, kav said:

I disagree with this based on my experience of non collectors finding a stack of comics and being sure they have a gold mine.  Average Joe thinks comics are valuable-the hard part is convincing them that not all comics, including the ones they are holding, are not.

I'm not saying that the public thinks that comics are worthless, I'm suggesting they have no interest and are clueless as your post would suggest.

For example, if you were a precious metals dealer, and you told an average Joe that gold was $50 an ounce, many of them (who don't even follow the price at all) would have some awareness that the figure is probably too low and would look up your comments with skepticism. Conversely, if you told them that it was $50,000 an ounce, the same skepticism would apply.  Because they have a lot of snippets of experience in their lives suggesting that doesn't sound right. If you were  an antique car dealer and try to tell your average Joe that a Mercedes Gull Wing costs about $50K-$100K, many would say you are way too low.  If you were a sports memorabilia dealer and told them that a Babe Ruth autographed ball was about $500, once again, many would not believe you, even though they don't specifically know better.  Of if you were an art dealer and try to tell someone that the Mona Lisa or Starry Night would cost about $10 million at auction, many would know that the figure is ridiculously low.

If you told them that you were a comic dealer and that Amazing Fantasy 15 was the first appearance of Spider-Man, and that in the very nice shape of VF/NM, they go for about $10K, most all would say, "Oh, okay".  They would very likely take you at your word because they rarely come across comics from a collecting/investing/reading perspective.  If you told them that it was $10 million, they would equally believe you, because they have no clue and don't care one bit. And apart from the occasional very infrequent auction sale that gets reported (like Action 1 and even AF15 specifically), which few people see or pay attention to or remember if they did, they know nothing or hear nothing in their daily lives about what that sort of thing would go for.  Unlike gold, which every understands on some level, or cars which every has experience with, or art which reports huge sales regularly, or sports which people interact with on some level (kids playing, tons of watching, etc.). 

Comics are just not of ANY interest to people outside of those who collect or have collected in the past.  That pretty much encompasses the entire market for who will buy collectible comics.  And that pool will eventually decrease over time to the point where it is virtually non-existent.

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11 minutes ago, FSF said:

tell your average Joe that a Mercedes Gull Wing costs about $50K-$100K, many would say you are way too low.

I'm an average Joe about cars and would swallow that figure without hesitation.  

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1 hour ago, kav said:

I disagree with this based on my experience of non collectors finding a stack of comics and being sure they have a gold mine.  Average Joe thinks comics are valuable-the hard part is convincing them that not all comics, including the ones they are holding, are not.

I read comics often at coffeeshop and invariably someone will say "wow I bet those are worth a lot!".  I have to explain no strange adventures #160 in 2.5 isnt worth much maybe 5 bucks.

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20 minutes ago, kav said:

I'm an average Joe about cars and would swallow that figure without hesitation.  

I never suggested that everyone would have that reaction.  In fact, I would think it would be a minority.  But where comics are concerned, it would be virtually nil in terms of their knowledge or care.

 

 

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