Received my first Media Mail package with notice of misuse and postage due 1 1

[justafan]

so do I or the seller need to do anything?  It looks like more of a warning.  I've received about a hundred MM packages from ebay sellers over the last 8 years and heard numerous stories about others experiences and all the debate about old vs new USPS DMM rules but this is the first time I received a package that got inspected. it also came with a photocopied DMM sheet that lists comics as not qualified for media mail.  so here it is folks. definitive proof. the thing is they did a pretty good job of carefully opening and repackaging the comics. only 1 corner of one of the comics now has a light non color break bend due to the comic corner sliding out from between the cardboard sandwich. has anyone else received something like this?  did you or the seller have to pay the difference? I'm surprised they didn't just send me a notice and hold the package at my post office asking for the difference before releasing.

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by justafan
added full shot of package with addresses redacted

[bababooey]

 

[paperheart]

unless you agreed to this shipping method, the sender should have to cover the difference

[justafan]

9 minutes ago, paperheart said:

unless you agreed to this shipping method, the sender should have to cover the difference

well shipping was free and the description doesn't list the type of shipping used. I don't mind paying the $2 difference but there's nothing telling me what to do so I'm not sure if the seller already got billed somehow. I guess I could just go to the PO and ask but with no enforcement or deadline, I'm likely to forget about it as I'm too lazy to drive all the way out to my po which cost more in gas and time than what I owe. if I receive a notice with a bill to pay and instructions to pay online I'll pay it online. just want to know from others on here if this is how they handle all their media mail inspections or if they ever withhold it until paid. if not then there's really nothing to discourage from misusing it and it just become a gamble with favorable odds.

[pjray55]

I recently had to go by feel for the weight of a package because I didn’t have access to a scale.  This was for an eBay transaction and a few weeks later I received a notice through eBay that the postage on my package was insufficient and that I was being billed for the difference.

i prefer that 1,000 times over a customer being billed for my mistake.

so if you transaction was through eBay it would be safe to assume the seller has already been billed IMO.

Edited June 23, 2018 by pjray55

[blazingbob]

18 minutes ago, justafan said:

well shipping was free and the description doesn't list the type of shipping used. I don't mind paying the $2 difference but there's nothing telling me what to do so I'm not sure if the seller already got billed somehow. I guess I could just go to the PO and ask but with no enforcement or deadline, I'm likely to forget about it as I'm too lazy to drive all the way out to my po which cost more in gas and time than what I owe. if I receive a notice with a bill to pay and instructions to pay online I'll pay it online. just want to know from others on here if this is how they handle all their media mail inspections or if they ever withhold it until paid. if not then there's really nothing to discourage from misusing it and it just become a gamble with favorable odds.

I guess my parents raised me right.  When you were warned not to do something because there are rules I generally followed them.

Seems others in order to save a few bucks feel it is ok to send a comic book which is not media mail.   If they get caught they feign ignorance and pay but continue to do it anyway.

 

[lizards2]

8 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

29 minutes ago, justafan said:

well shipping was free and the description doesn't list the type of shipping used. I don't mind paying the $2 difference but there's nothing telling me what to do so I'm not sure if the seller already got billed somehow. I guess I could just go to the PO and ask but with no enforcement or deadline, I'm likely to forget about it as I'm too lazy to drive all the way out to my po which cost more in gas and time than what I owe. if I receive a notice with a bill to pay and instructions to pay online I'll pay it online. just want to know from others on here if this is how they handle all their media mail inspections or if they ever withhold it until paid. if not then there's really nothing to discourage from misusing it and it just become a gamble with favorable odds.

I guess my parents raised me right.  When you were warned not to do something because there are rules I generally followed them.

Seems others in order to save a few bucks feel it is ok to send a comic book which is not media mail.   If they get caught they feign ignorance and pay but continue to do it anyway.

I agree to a point - however, many folks just don't know the minutiae of the postal regulations, like almost anything else in this world.  It's hard to say whether it will continue with this seller or not, without making another order.

[justafan]

28 minutes ago, pjray55 said:

I recently had to go by feel for the weight of a package because I didn’t have access to a scale.  This was for an eBay transaction and a few weeks later I received a notice through eBay that the postage on my package was insufficient and that I was being billed for the difference.

i prefer that 1,000 times over a customer being billed for my mistake.

so if you transaction was through eBay it would a safe to assume the seller has already been billed IMO.

thanks pjray55. yes, through ebay so they probably already got billed.  I agree, as a seller if I screw up on postage I would much rather they come after me than bother the buyer.

[234wallst]

Wow I had no idea Media Mail only applied to selective "books".  And wasn't aware that only computer games were allowed but not video/console games.  Definitely have both sent and received "invalid" types in the past.  

[Point Five]

3 hours ago, justafan said:

Screw it. I'm going to start selling cookbooks.

 

[Mercury Man]

They should just do away with the whole MM category.  I mean look at the CD breakdown.  Seriously going to hem and haw on what is on the CD to qualify?  Just bump it all to First Class and we can move on with our lives. 

[lizards2]

18 minutes ago, Point Five said:

3 hours ago, justafan said:

Screw it. I'm going to start selling cookbooks.

 

You could probably buy the big ones, and either use them as a "cardboard" sandwich, or hollow out the middles to create comic-sized voids..., 

[James J Johnson]

If the item wasn't damaged by the inspection, you got away from this lucky! The reason why nobody should use media mail for shipping comics is because the parcel is subject to inspection! And while we know how to handle comics carefully, I've heard plenty of stories of how comics were mutilated, literally stuffed back into comic bags after being rifled through. Unless you want to take the chance of a third party opening your parcel sent to a buyer, and folding, spindling, and mutilating the contents, avoid media mail.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Despite what others have said here, if it's not in the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), it has no meaning to the USPS officially.

That includes the "guidelines" printed above.

These are mere differences of interpretation, and always have been. Until and unless it is specifically addressed in the DMM...and there's no reason it can't be; e-commerce has been going on for 25 years or so....then it is still a matter of interpretation, not "following or breaking the rules."

Since the pages in comics that originally contained advertising no longer do, they are valid to ship via Media Mail per the DMM. 

And the solution, for those who disagree, is simple: don't use that service. Problem solved.

[bababooey]

17 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Despite what others have said here, if it's not in the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), it has no meaning to the USPS officially.

That includes the "guidelines" printed above.

These are mere differences of interpretation, and always have been. Until and unless it is specifically addressed in the DMM...and there's no reason it can't be; e-commerce has been going on for 25 years or so....then it is still a matter of interpretation, not "following or breaking the rules."

Since the pages in comics that originally contained advertising no longer do, they are valid to ship via Media Mail per the DMM. 

And the solution, for those who disagree, is simple: don't use that service. Problem solved.

What is your reasoning for encouraging people to ship via this method?

I've seen you lose the argument a few times yet you keep on misinforming the masses about why they can use it.   Do you want people here to use the service?  Do you expect others to argue with a postal inspector who is armed with a USPS internal directive so that they can shave a few dimes while clearly putting items shippedvia this method at risk.

I don't want to re-argue the finer points which happened a few weeks ago.   I want to know why you think it's wise to encourage people to use it. 

[Artboy99]

I don't understand the reason to provide a service that is only for very specific items.

If it fits in the box and is legal to be shipped it should be allowed.

Book - yes

Comics - no

so is a book about comics allowed? It is educational and could possibly be considered a book that will "enhance a person's capabilities", but contains pictures.

pretty silly IMHO

Edited June 23, 2018 by Artboy99

[RockMyAmadeus]

47 minutes ago, bababooey said:

What is your reasoning for encouraging people to ship via this method?

I've seen you lose the argument a few times yet you keep on misinforming the masses about why they can use it.   Do you want people here to use the service?  Do you expect others to argue with a postal inspector who is armed with a USPS internal directive so that they can shave a few dimes while clearly putting items shippedvia this method at risk.

I don't want to re-argue the finer points which happened a few weeks ago.   I want to know why you think it's wise to encourage people to use it. 

You've not seen me "lose" the argument. You don't "lose" an argument just because others state their disagreements. That's not how argumentation works.

You've seen people merely express their opinions. The only way to "lose" such an argument would be a court ruling.

The argument I have presented, and continue to present, is a solid legal argument. If you disagree, you disagree...but you are merely stating your opinion, as I am mine. That doesn't make your argument "more valid", nor is it "misinformation" when the regulation concerning the matter is....quite obviously...open to interpretation.

I do not "encourage" people to ship via this method. However, I also am not in favor of bureaucrats imposing their own personal interpretation of regulations that are not clear. This has all been gone over, in great and lengthy detail, before. It's all about choice.

What is your reasoning for DIScouraging people to ship via this method? "It's in the rules" is obviously not a valid argument, for the reasons I have laid out.

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

43 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

so is a book about comics allowed? It is educational and could possibly be considered a book that will "enhance a person's capabilities", but contains pictures.

pretty silly IMHO

You will not find the "pictures" regulation in the DMM. That form pictured above is a personal interpretation of the regulation. You'll find no such language in the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) and the DMM is the only document which carries any regulatory weight with the United States Postal Service.

Until and if the DMM addresses the issue, all such "bulletins", even if from the Postmaster him or herself, carry absolutely no regulatory weight.

Notice the contradiction and interpretation: "books consisting wholly of reading matter." Whoever made that interpreted "reading matter" as written matter, text...like what you're reading right now...but the regulation itself doesn't define what "reading matter" is, and you can "read" comic books, can you not?

And....notice what it says for comics: "predominantly pictures." 

So?

What are movies...?

Do you read much watching a movie...?

Not unless it's in a foreign language and subtitled.

But DVDs containing movies are perfectly allowed.

And, while this is certainly out on a limb, written language is nothing more than pictorial symbols that represent sounds and concepts...

Oops. I inserted a picture. Guess this post wouldn't qualify...

Again, it's just more bureaucratic interference and interpretation, meant to control and restrict. It's nonsense.

Edited June 23, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You will not find the "pictures" regulation in the DMM. That form pictured above is a personal interpretation of the regulation. You'll find no such language in the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) and the DMM is the only document which carries any regulatory weight with the United States Postal Service.

Until and if the DMM addresses the issue, all such "bulletins", even if from the Postmaster him or herself, carry absolutely no regulatory weight.

Notice the contradiction and interpretation: "books consisting wholly of reading matter." Whoever made that interpreted "reading matter" as written matter, text...like what you're reading right now...but the regulation itself doesn't define what "reading matter" is, and you can "read" comic books, can you not?

And....notice what it says for comics: "predominantly pictures." 

So?

What are movies...?

Do you read much watching a movie...?

Not unless it's in a foreign language and subtitled.

But DVDs containing movies are perfectly allowed.

And, while this is certainly out on a limb, written language is nothing more than pictorial symbols that represent sounds and concepts...

Oops. I inserted a picture. Guess this post wouldn't qualify...

Again, it's just more bureaucratic interference and interpretation, meant to control and restrict. It's nonsense.

But aside from the technicalities of specific mail services, for us. media mail should be the last delivery mode we want out condition sensitive collectibles to be sent by. Here is a list of books that were damaged, sent to me from sellers using media mail, which is always subject to rifling by USPS personnel::

All raw:

1) X-Men 3: about Fine: Jammed back into the comic bag/board, the back cover and 6 or 7 pages folded up like origami, and torn at the spine.

2) Fantastic Four 87, about NM: Looked like it was removed from the bag/board/mylar and vigorously clenched in a fist before being put back into the housing.

3) Amazing Spider-man 100, about VF: Aggressively thumbed through to put a tear on the right edge of the cover and 4 or 5 pages, and to pop the staples through the cover

The pictures of the books matched the appearance pre-mailing, in all cases, of course without the damage from media mail rifling.

If I were going to sell a raw comic, I would never use the service full well knowing that there's a chance that an extra set of hands (and not caring hands) might be handling the book and damaging it before my buyer ever gets to see it.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by James J Johnson

[Fan Boy]

I got the same “warning notice” on one parcel that I picked up couple years ago. Asked me to pay the postal difference of $10, since the eBay seller underpriced his shipping quote on his auction at the time. I was unaware of the fact until too late. That was for 60+ comic books dating from 30+ years back, all assorted of course. 

This notice did explain the same what OP got on there. That was my first time I got hard proof MM can be inspected by postal worker. I emailed back to seller about it, never received a reply. Oh well... I now tell every seller to not do the MM route but that I will pay extra for first class postage. Cheaper than be warned again the doomed  “white notice” on next parcel.